3 1/2 inch 12 gage handi with 2 oz. Don't know if I can make myself shoot that again. As for actual damage, the same frame with 45-70 400 gr. at 1600. That turned my arm black & blue all the way to my elbow. I shot something like 20 rounds, didn't know I had broken a vein until later, or I would have quit. For a while I thought I had crippled myself for good. A surprise was a .300 Savage 99 with steel butt. It comes back real straight, so was more than I expected. Shot a .416 double gun at the range once, it seemed to push. Watching some of those elephant loads, I think I would hope the elephant put me out of my misery.