Deer Hunting bullet for 357

[S & W 642]

I just bought a S & W 686 357 and I was wanting to know the best factory load for deer hunting.

[Redhawk1]

I would go with either a good 158 gr. or heavier in JSP or a hard cast bullet for deer hunting.

[Doe]

Fed - Fusion !!   

[Mohawk]

 This is the first year I used a .357 revolver for deer but I did kill two. I used the Remington 158gr Semi-Jacketed Hollow point (SJHP). Both exited leaving .60 caliber or so wounds and did fine. Both ran about 40yds and died. It's technically a self defense load but it did well on whitetails.

[Ak.Hiker]

The 158 grain JSP is a good pick. Federal loads one in their American Eagle line. I just tried out a box of Double Tap 357 Magnum's loaded pretty hot with the 158 grain Speer JHP Gold Dot bullet. Not sure if the Gold Dot would work as good as the tried and true JSP. They are pretty tough for a hollow point but the JSP has a proven record in the field on deer sized game.

[Larry Gibson]

I just bought a S & W 686 357 and I was wanting to know the best factory load for deer hunting.

What barrel length?  At what ranges? Realistically, how big (lbs on the hoof) are the deer where you hunt?

I ask because the barrel length effects velocity which effects terminal performance of many loads, especially with the .357 on deer. 

Larry Gibson

[S & W 642]

6 inch barrel and 50 to 75 yards would be the max.  The deer here are 150 to 250lbs.

[Larry Gibson]

6 inch barrel and 50 to 75 yards would be the max.  The deer here are 150 to 250lbs.

With that criteria and the 6" barrel length for factory ammo I would use the Federal 158 Fusion JHP, Speer's 158 Gold Dot, Winchester's 158 SuperX JHPs, Remington's 158 Express semi JSP, and the Hornady's Custom 158 XTPs. If you feel the need for Hardcast I suggest; Grizzley 180 Cast Performance WFN.

I also suggest bullet placement in the heart/lung area and not the classic "behind the shoulder" shot.  All of the above will give excellent penetration into the heart/lung even through one shoulder/leg of a deer on all shots except the Texas heart shot.  I avoid those and advise others to as well. 

Larry Gibson

[S.B.]

I'm surprised no one suggested a hard cast bullet at around 170-200 grains?
Steve

[Redhawk1]

I'm surprised no one suggested a hard cast bullet at around 170-200 grains?
Steve

Because you don't need that much to kill a deer in handgun range with a 357 Mag.

[buck460XVR]

Killed the first two deer I shot at with my 6'' 686 with cheapo Blazer 158HPs. That said I would never do it again, nor would I recommend it to anyone.....at the time I didn't know any better. They were at close range and hit well, and altho I shot behind the shoulder as they were quartering away, there were no exit wounds.  Killed the next two with Remmie 158 JSPs. My self-imposed limit is 40 yards with the .357, and generally only use it for backup to my long-gun. When I hunt deer with a handgun as my primary weapon I like to go bigger.

[Jal5]

thanks this is really helpful info for me too as its my goal next fall to take one with my 357, 6", Model 66.
What about LSWC and handloads, any suggestions?

Joe

[Graybeard]

Jerry Lester is our resident expert on using the .357 on deer in both rifles and handguns. He is out of work and maybe off the internet at this time so dunno if he will see and respond or not. His choice is the Remington 158 JSP but I don't recall his load.

I've never shot a deer with a .357 as I have plenty of what I consider better choices to use instead. But I am one who likes an exit hole on game I shoot so I think if I were to go deer hunting with my S&W 66 6" or the 4" or my Rossi lever rifle I'd likely use a hard cast bullet of 160 grains or heavier.

I have the Lyman 358156 GC mould and the old Keith Lyman 358429 both. I'd trust either of those over a stiff load of 2400 to blow thru any deer I'm likely to run across leaving a good blood trail to the dead deer at the end of it.

[buck460XVR]

Jerry Lester is our resident expert on using the .357 on deer in both rifles and handguns. He is out of work and maybe off the internet at this time so dunno if he will see and respond or not. His choice is the Remington 158 JSP but I don't recall his load.

I'm thinkin' it was 17 grains of Lil' Gun.

[Jerry Lester]

Hi fellows! Still hanging on by the grace of God(literaly).

The Remington HP factory load you used "will" as you experienced kill deer with an "absolutely" perfect shot, but I'd advise highly against depending on "any" hollow point load in any form, factory, or handloaded in the 357 magnum for deer.

I've had(more than once) the exact Remington HP to completely come apart on a shoulder, and never make it to the rib cage much less hit the vitals. I've had the same thing happen with several other HP designs too. The problem occurs when you hit one of the two ridges on the shoulder blade. It can leave a hole blown out of the shoulder the size of a saucer, and a very wounded, almost unrecoverable deer. This has even happened with XTP-HP's which are just about as tough a HP as you can find.

If you're limited to factory ammo, stick with a good 158g SP. In full house loads they'll give complete penetration almost every time even on double shoulder hits. They also leave a very good wound channel(especially from a rifle). I have no doubt that a good cast bullet with a wide nose would perform pretty good too, but I personally prefer at least some expansion with the 357 on deer sized animals. There's just something about their reaction as a bullet expands passing through an animal. I've studied in great depth how animals react at the instant they're hit, and a bullet expanding definately hurts them more as far as causing a quicker death. I've observed this hundreds of times, and it's 100% consistent no matter what animal it is, or what caliber/load they're hit with.

As far as "my" prefered 357 magnum deer load...

Starline brass
CCI 550 primers
17.5g of Lil'Gun
Remington 158g SP's

velocity runs around 1300 fps from a 5.5"(had it cut back) Blackhawk, and around 1850-1900 fps from a Marlin 1894C. I wouldn't advise pushing this particular bullet past 1900 fps even though you can easily do it with Lil' Gun, in a rifle.

[Redhawk1]

Jerry Lester, I agree with you on the JHP, I will not use any hollow point on game animals in any round, much less a 357 Mag.  JSP or hard cast is my choice.

[S & W 642]

I know what a cast bullet is but what is a sp bullet

[Ak.Hiker]

The guys are talking about the jacketed soft point bullet with the term sp.

[Larry Gibson]

S&W 642

The difference between RedHawk1 and i is I don't make blanket staements.  That's the reason I asked for clarification on the barrel length and the size of deer.  If you note Lester is pushing his .357s hard and is also refering to their use in a rifle.  You're criteria is factory loads and probably a deer in the 150-250 lb range but more than likely 150-200 lbs. The factory loads I mentioned will be doing 1200-1300 fps out of your 6" barreled revolver.  The HPs mention will penetrate into the vitals, especially the 158 XTP and give adequate expansion and terminal performance considering the 6" barrel. Different opinions being made here but I base mine on experience shooting deer with the .357 of various barrel lengths and using factory ammo. If you are reloading and pushing the velocities to 1400+ fps then I concur with Lestor, use the 158 SPs with the 158 XTP JFN and the Remington 158 JSP being two very good choices.  It's simply a matter of balancing the terminal performance expected given the barrel length, actual velocities attained and size of the game.

Larry Gibson

[Redhawk1]

Larry seeing how you pointed me out, I will address you.

If you reread Jerry Lester's post, he was talking about handguns as well as rifle, did you miss that in your haste to post your comments?

I don't make blanket statements, I make statement based on my years of actual handgun hunting experience as well.  Been there done that with a 357 mag, and I know what works. If given the choice, it is a no brainier to go with a JSP or hard cast bullet over a JHP. What is so hard to pick up a box of JSP over a box of JHP?

Please tell me the advantage the JHP has over the JSP or cast bullet?   

[Badnews Bob]

My personal experiance with a 6" .357 ruger GP100 is that HPs do not penatrate as well as JSPs and hardcast out dose both, I will not hunt deer anymore with HPs but I will use 158 gr rem bulk JSPs. My favorite load is a full charge of H110 under some 180gr hardcast LBT style of bullet I use the same loads in rifle and pistol.  You can buy simular loads from several companys.

I like the hole to go all the way thru and it works well for me.

[tc scout]

Jerry Lester, Please answer a question for me if you will regarding 357 sp's.
 
I hunt with a 357 max, last year I used Hornady 180 SS/PB bullets. It did bring down the deer(double lung) but traveled farther than I desire before dropping.
I was not impressed with the results. So this year I decided to switch to 180 gr XTP's.

However, after reading your post I am having doubts if this is my best choice.
My loads are about 1550 fps out of a 15" barrel.
 
Would I be better off to go with a sp bullet  in 158 or 180 gr.?
I have some Speer Unicor 158 gr UCSP bullets. Are they considered a sp bullet suitable for hunting?
Also 158 or 180 gr bullets out of the max?   

                          Thank You, TC

[Badnews Bob]

TC I don't want to step on your question for Jerry but I have three .357 maximums a 7.5 inch a 10.5 inch and a 22 inch and they all perform best with 180gr bullets, I prefer hard cast but XTPs shoot really well. I've only use one XTP on a deer and it punched a nice big hole all the way thru the boiler room That doe went about 25 yards after the hit.

[tc scout]

Thanks Bob, I like the 180's also, I just didn't think the 180 SS/SP opened up like it should have.
I did do some shooting with 158 XTP's in the max and they were very accurate, but thought they might be a bit light. I shoot these in my  686 357 mag, so I always have a bunch on hand.

IMO it was  best to take full advantage of the Max by shooting 180 gr. bullets.
Just bought a box of 180 gr. XTP's to try, just hoping they group as well as the 158's did.


                                                                  Thanks for your input,
                                                                  Always appreciate info from those in the know.
                                                                                                                   TC 
 

[Redhawk1]

Jerry Lester, Please answer a question for me if you will regarding 357 sp's.
 
I hunt with a 357 max, last year I used Hornady 180 SS/PB bullets. It did bring down the deer(double lung) but traveled farther than I desire before dropping.
I was not impressed with the results. So this year I decided to switch to 180 gr XTP's.

However, after reading your post I am having doubts if this is my best choice.
My loads are about 1550 fps out of a 15" barrel.
 
Would I be better off to go with a sp bullet  in 158 or 180 gr.?
I have some Speer Unicor 158 gr UCSP bullets. Are they considered a sp bullet suitable for hunting?
Also 158 or 180 gr bullets out of the max?   

                          Thank You, TC

tc, not Jerry either, but I have to ask, at what point did your bullet fail, or did you feel it failed?

I have found, that you can shoot 2 deer in the exact spot with the same bullet, and get two totally different reactions from the deer. One may run 20 feet the other 60 yards. But in my opinion, if the deer was recovered and you made a good shot, the bullet did it's job.

Having used a 357 Mag for a lot of my deer hunting when I was younger, I found a good JSP bullet in the 158 or 180 gr. weight class worked on deer.

What ever weight you decide on will work, just make sure when you push them bullets faster, that you get a good constructed bullet that will handle the velocity.

The main reason I like hard cast gas checked bullets is, you can push them fast, and the will punch through a deer like nothing. If you take out both lungs, the deer will die.

I use 158 gr. hard cast GC bullets still in my 357 Mag, because they give me the best accuracy and kill deer well.

If I was shooting the 357 Max I think I would work on a 180 gr. load as well.

[Ak.Hiker]

The Speer 158 grain Unicore bullet is a soft point with very little lead exposed. I have some loaded with Jerry's favorite 17.5 grains of Little Gun. The Unicore bullet will do a good job holding together on impact due to its unicore construction. Not sure if it will work as good as the designs with more lead exposed like the Remington but in my opinion the Unicore is a good bullet. It looks like it is made with the same construction as their 270 grain Gold Dot JSP they load in the 44 Magnum.

[Mikey]

S&W 642:  Since you requested information on the best factory loads I will recommend Winchester or Remington, premium loadings not the bulk white box (WW) or yeller box (Rem/UMC) with 158 gn soft points (sp) or a heavier 180-200 gn XTP. 

Your S&W with a 6" bbl should be able to optimize the performance of these factory loadings.  Also, Hornady, Speer (I believe), Sellier and Bellot and, of course, Cor-bon, Buffalo Bore and Garrett also load 357s.  But, for the weight Whitetail you mentioned and the distances to which you might limit your shots, any of the above mentioned factory loads should suffice if you can place the shot.   

Now - and right now, blankets and statements about blankets aside on accounta I do not like extremely broad and all encompassing terms or statements except when speakin' of commies and dumbocraps and the like, the standard 158 gn loading in 357 should be sufficient.

Re: the 357 Max with even heavier bullets - just a heavier 357.  The slugs will go through them farther and faster maybe, but go through them.  I prefer a 200 gn hard cast semi wadcutter slug from my shorter barrelled 357 - the heavier slug carries better I feel and retains enough energy to penetrate through and through at my handgun hunting distances of 50-60 yds.  jmtcw.  Mikey.

[tc scout]

Sorry S & W 642, I guess I am the one who has hijacked your thread, with the subject of 357 Max bullets.

However, with all the good information by many knowledgeable people here, I hope all your questions were answered.

I have learned much and thank everyone for their input.

Redhawk 1, I have deer hunted well over 50 years with many different guns (& bows). The one I shot this year with the Hornady 180 SS/SP was probably the strangest yet. As I said before, broadside, both lungs at 50 yds.

At the shot this deer showed no sign of being hit, he just started walking away ( kind of like the tale of "He didn't even know he was hit").I could clearly see the hole and figured he was done. Should have loaded another round and shot again. (DUMB)
He continued to walk for about 75 yds, stopped and stood for about 1 minute, dropped and expired.

Had this deer ran for that amount time he would have been in the next state, surely on the next property and in another hunter's sights.
So you can see my concern for the effectiveness of that bullet and will not use again.


                                                                     Thanks to everyone again, TC

    Added 1:45 PM.. S&W 642, I am sorry my questions and statements have completely ruined your thread and turned it into an argument
     and gone completely off topic, my apologies.  TC

[Sverre A.]

I have shot my deers with 6" revolver and with Marlin/158 gr. XTPHP - and the bullets penetrated through.
But all shots have been within 90 yds.

[Larry Gibson]

Larry seeing how you pointed me out, I will address you.

If you reread Jerry Lester's post, he was talking about handguns as well as rifle, did you miss that in your haste to post your comments?

I don't make blanket statements, I make statement based on my years of actual handgun hunting experience as well.  Been there done that with a 357 mag, and I know what works. If given the choice, it is a no brainier to go with a JSP or hard cast bullet over a JHP. What is so hard to pick up a box of JSP over a box of JHP?

Please tell me the advantage the JHP has over the JSP or cast bullet?   

RedHawk1

I didn't think I "pointed you out". I didn't mention you nor did I quote you.  My observations were based on Lester's post not yours.  I was pointing out to S&W 642 the differences between what he was going to use vs what Lester was talking about.  I did reference Lester's use of the handgun and that he was pushing his handloads hard.  S&W 642 is not wanting to use handloads but is wanting to use factory ammo in which the velocity will be lower than Lester's. Ergo there will be an expected bullet performance difference.  There was no "haste" to make any comments.  I also did not mention you nor anyone other than myself when referring to "blanket statements".  I was simply stating that I like to match the bullet and load to the barrel length for the size of the deer to be hunted.  That gives the best terminal performance instead of saying; "the hard cast bullet is best, or the HP is best or the SP is best or that 300+ bullets of 6000+ caliber are best."  I don't like to make blanket statements like those.  If you do then be my guest but don't whine if someone disagree's.

The JSP available may not be the better choice than the JHP available for the job at hand with the revolver at hand.  If you'd bother to note I recommended both JHPs and JSPs to S&W 642 along with a hardcast bullet load. 

"Please tell me the advantage the JHP has over the JSP or cast bullet?   "  With the proper choice of JHP for the revolver to be used it offers increased expansion as it penetrates (not all JHPs expand and stop under the skin you know, or don't you?) the vitals of a deer.  This means increased terminal performance.  Increased terminal performance means the deer dies quicker most often.  But remember here I am not discounting neither JSPs not cast bullets as you seem to insinuate.  There are JSPs that can give equal terminal performances as many JHPs. 

I understand that you are a moderator here (?) and a resident "expert".  However, if you wish to argue with every post I make because i offer a different perspective or viewpoint you could be polite enough to take it off line or start another thread.  This is S&W 642's thread so you should not ruin it by wanting an arguement with me. 

Larry Gibson