Deer Hunting bullet for 357

[Larry Gibson]

tc scout

"As I said before, broadside, both lungs at 50 yds"

Nothing really unusual there.  "Lungers" can goo even farther than that and many times do, even whan shot with rifles.  I gave up the broadside behind the shoulders, both lungs shot many years ago in favor of the Heart/lung shot.  The XTP at 1550 fps will work fine.

Every one should note that myself and mikey have pointed out that S&W 642 is not talking handloads, he is talking factory ammunition. 

Larry Gibson

[Redhawk1]

Larry seeing how you pointed me out, I will address you.

If you reread Jerry Lester's post, he was talking about handguns as well as rifle, did you miss that in your haste to post your comments?

I don't make blanket statements, I make statement based on my years of actual handgun hunting experience as well.  Been there done that with a 357 mag, and I know what works. If given the choice, it is a no brainier to go with a JSP or hard cast bullet over a JHP. What is so hard to pick up a box of JSP over a box of JHP?

Please tell me the advantage the JHP has over the JSP or cast bullet?   

RedHawk1

I didn't think I "pointed you out". I didn't mention you nor did I quote you.  My observations were based on Lester's post not yours.  I was pointing out to S&W 642 the differences between what he was going to use vs what Lester was talking about.  I did reference Lester's use of the handgun and that he was pushing his handloads hard.  S&W 642 is not wanting to use handloads but is wanting to use factory ammo in which the velocity will be lower than Lester's. Ergo there will be an expected bullet performance difference.  There was no "haste" to make any comments.  I also did not mention you nor anyone other than myself when referring to "blanket statements".  I was simply stating that I like to match the bullet and load to the barrel length for the size of the deer to be hunted.  That gives the best terminal performance instead of saying; "the hard cast bullet is best, or the HP is best or the SP is best or that 300+ bullets of 6000+ caliber are best."  I don't like to make blanket statements like those.  If you do then be my guest but don't whine if someone disagree's.

The JSP available may not be the better choice than the JHP available for the job at hand with the revolver at hand.  If you'd bother to note I recommended both JHPs and JSPs to S&W 642 along with a hardcast bullet load. 

"Please tell me the advantage the JHP has over the JSP or cast bullet?   "  With the proper choice of JHP for the revolver to be used it offers increased expansion as it penetrates (not all JHPs expand and stop under the skin you know, or don't you?) the vitals of a deer.  This means increased terminal performance.  Increased terminal performance means the deer dies quicker most often.  But remember here I am not discounting neither JSPs not cast bullets as you seem to insinuate.  There are JSPs that can give equal terminal performances as many JHPs. 

I understand that you are a moderator here (?) and a resident "expert".  However, if you wish to argue with every post I make because i offer a different perspective or viewpoint you could be polite enough to take it off line or start another thread.  This is S&W 642's thread so you should not ruin it by wanting an arguement with me. 

Larry Gibson

Hay Larry did you forget you wrote this on page one.

S&W 642

The difference between RedHawk1 and i is I don't make blanket staements.

Larry I am not the Moderator here nor did I clamed to be the resident "expert".  But I do have a great deal of experience in handgun hunting, and I feel I bring a lot to the table. Ergo I feel I am qualified to make such statements.

Remember, not one person can have a disagreement, it takes two. Now have a nice day big guy.

[Redhawk1]

Sorry S & W 642, I guess I am the one who has hijacked your thread, with the subject of 357 Max bullets.

However, with all the good information by many knowledgeable people here, I hope all your questions were answered.

I have learned much and thank everyone for their input.

Redhawk 1, I have deer hunted well over 50 years with many different guns (& bows). The one I shot this year with the Hornady 180 SS/SP was probably the strangest yet. As I said before, broadside, both lungs at 50 yds.

At the shot this deer showed no sign of being hit, he just started walking away ( kind of like the tale of "He didn't even know he was hit").I could clearly see the hole and figured he was done. Should have loaded another round and shot again. (DUMB)
He continued to walk for about 75 yds, stopped and stood for about 1 minute, dropped and expired.

Had this deer ran for that amount time he would have been in the next state, surely on the next property and in another hunter's sights.
So you can see my concern for the effectiveness of that bullet and will not use again.


                                                                     Thanks to everyone again, TC

Tc like I said before, you could shoot two deer with the same load, and in the same spot and get two totally different reactions from an animal.
Also, if that deer did run, it may of expired a lot quicker also, due to trying to take more breaths or just the adrenalin, who knows.

[Jerry Lester]

Jerry Lester, Please answer a question for me if you will regarding 357 sp's.
 
I hunt with a 357 max, last year I used Hornady 180 SS/PB bullets. It did bring down the deer(double lung) but traveled farther than I desire before dropping.
I was not impressed with the results. So this year I decided to switch to 180 gr XTP's.

However, after reading your post I am having doubts if this is my best choice.
My loads are about 1550 fps out of a 15" barrel.
 
Would I be better off to go with a sp bullet  in 158 or 180 gr.?
I have some Speer Unicor 158 gr UCSP bullets. Are they considered a sp bullet suitable for hunting?
Also 158 or 180 gr bullets out of the max?   

                          Thank You, TC

It all boils down to impact velocity, and bullet construction. The XTP HP's are about the toughest HP bullets you can get. The 180's may do OK at the velocities you're talking about. It's just that I've experienced on quite a few occasions, HP's, even XTP's catching one of the ridges on a shoulder blade at just the right angle, and having the edge of the HP cavity give way causing the bullet to veer sharply off course. When this happens, it causes a severe raking wound that rarely kills the deer, requiring a lot of chasing, and definitely a follow up shot for the kill. Just to clarify, This has happened at impact velocities as low as 1000- fps.

My prefered shot is through a facing shoulder, into the vitals, preferably with an exit behind the off shoulder. When you strive for this angle every time to the point of passing till you get it, you'll definitely experience what I'm describing, especially with the wider cavity HP's found in pistol bullets.

If I was hunting with your 357 Maximum pistol, I'd use a 158g SP(Remington if possible) at what ever maximum velocity was up to 1850-1900 fps. You'd then have a combination that would be 100% reliable no matter what angle the shoulder was hit.

I've heard very good things about the Unicore's, so I'd give'em a try if that's what I had on hand.

[tc scout]

Jerry, Thank You for your reply, much appreciated.  TC

[Mohawk]

    Some folks have some tough deer.....lol...   Here in the Texas Hill Country(Deer under 130lbs) any bullet design works fine. I used the 158gr Rem, Semi-Jacketed Hollow Points and got good pass-thrus on both deer I killed with them. First deer was about 17" of penetration before breaking the shoulder then exiting.

[mattmillerrx]

I will admit I have not got around to testing loads for it yet but my pick for my 6 in. 686 is the 158 gr laser cast swc bullet from oregon trail.  I plan to load it over n-110.  Testing should begin soon.  They are pretty easy on price as well. 

[357magrifleman]

Both federal and Winchester have web sites that recommends the usage for their bullets.  Even when you purchase a box a ammo they have either a deer or a groundhog (prairie dog?) on the box showing the usage. Most ammo websites have some form of usage recommendation.  The Winchester, federal and hornady seems to be the easiest to use.   But  I do like to read real world experience with the ammo.