Author Topic: Most rugged action (Read 5003 times)

summit · « **on:** February 10, 2009, 04:36:15 AM »

I just bought a Springfield XD pistol, which is a pretty tough little weapon. They hardly ever jam, whereas my bolt-action Savage jams if I get a few grains of sand in it (like when you get down in the prone in southern Utah). Is there a rifle out there that would be easier to maintain while I deer hunt? I don't go out of my way to get my gun dirty, but I hunt where there is a lot of sand and the wind blows a lot.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #1 on:** February 10, 2009, 05:16:11 AM »

with all due respect , could it be you over lube your gun ? Oil/grease collect grit . The bolt gun shines in adverse conditions where other action types fail . hunt with a dry gun and see if it helps ( you may already have , if so i was trying to help not throw stones ) .
I learned this the hard way . Where i shoot we don't have to deal with alot of grit . I shot a match on the coast of N.C. and had my over lubed Super Blackhawk almost come to a stop , had to wash it out between sets with a water bottle . That will make ya cringe !

trotterlg · « **Reply #2 on:** February 10, 2009, 01:46:32 PM »

For a bolt gun the king is probably a Mosin Nagant, most likely not something you would want to deer hunt with, but they will always work no matter what the conditions are. You do pay a price for having lots of clearances for dirt to go into, that is precision and accuracy. Larry

charles p · « **Reply #3 on:** February 10, 2009, 02:49:52 PM »

If you are using a modern bolt rifle, I suspect you will not get much better performance from another type/model/brand/action.

I do not routinelly get sand in my rifles, nor do I routinely shoot from a prone position. My recommendations may be biased. I usually shoot from elevated stands or ground level rests, with an occasional free handed shot about once per decade. I'm all the way across the continent from Oregon, but we have our share of sand on the East Coast. I life on a barrier island, out in the ocean.

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #4 on:** February 10, 2009, 03:20:28 PM »

Mauser 98 or just about any other milsurp bolt action.

summit · « **Reply #5 on:** February 10, 2009, 03:52:09 PM »

Hmmm, come to think of it I probably did overlube my gun. So I would imagine that the military actions are a bit more forgiving. Would the Mauser be an example of that? Also, would a Mauser-type action like a Ruger be less likely to gum up than something like a Savage or Remington?

Rangr44 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 10, 2009, 04:25:13 PM »

[Also, would a Mauser-type action like a Ruger be less likely to gum up than something like a Savage or Remington?]

NO - The previous post of "Mauser or other milsurp" is correct. The commercial variations are made to much closer tolerances than military issue.

Which is why there used to be so many business' based on accurizing them.
.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #7 on:** February 11, 2009, 01:24:52 AM »

Had a gun smith once tell me the 7.7 jap was the strongest built action ( this was in the late 70's . He said it was an over built Mauser action , they came with a dust cover and enlarged safety protect aginst gas comming back in shooters face . He had taken one and customized it into a beautiful sporter .
I couldn't tell ya if he was correct but you might do similar if you like the surplus idea . I have shot 2 different 8mm masures and 1 &.7 jap and all would be good deer guns ( JUST LONG AND HEAVY ) .

targshooter · « **Reply #8 on:** February 11, 2009, 02:40:15 AM »

If you are considering a current production hunting rifle, I like the Ruger stainless rifles. They have a one piece bolt/handle assembly and the extraction that ensures that even verdigris coated cartridges will extract. I backpack and stay in a tent. At times I have spent almost a month in the wilds of Maine and Canada hunting this way. The cartridges get quite green and sticky after two or three weeks under these conditions. The Mauser extraction system never fails to clear the cartridge from the chamber, even with these field seasoned cartridges.

oldelkhunter · « **Reply #9 on:** February 11, 2009, 04:09:56 AM »

Among current production rifles the Ruger MK II is the absolute most rugged and reliable rifle made.

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #10 on:** February 11, 2009, 05:09:51 AM »

Quote from: Rangr44 on February 10, 2009, 04:25:13 PM

[Also, would a Mauser-type action like a Ruger be less likely to gum up than something like a Savage or Remington?]

NO - The previous post of "Mauser or other milsurp" is correct. The commercial variations are made to much closer tolerances than military issue.

Which is why there used to be so many business' based on accurizing them.
.

Yup that bolt is supposed to flop around like that until you close it then the camming action of the lugs pulls it tight. Also works to pull a jammed caseing out of a dirty chamber.

MGMorden · « **Reply #11 on:** February 11, 2009, 10:10:51 AM »

If you want a GOOD military action that is utterly reliable and makes a good sporter without changing barrels, try to find a (already sporterized - no need to chop up a good one) Springfield 1903 or 1903-A3. I've owned 2 and have never found a gun more reliable, plus their native chambering is .30-06 which is already a popular sporting round (nothing wrong with 8mm Mauser or 7.62x54R for hunting as far as physics go, but from a practicality standpoint you don't find those rounds sitting on most store shelves). Plus, just IMHO, the lines of the 1903 make for a very "graceful" sporter.

Just make sure you check the S/N if you get a regular 1903 as the lower serial numbers had some heat treating issues that make them unsafe to shoot. That's a small (and verifiable) number of them though - the 1903-A3's are all fine. Also, if possible, you might try to find one already drilled for a scope. On my first 1903-A3 sporter it took me a while to find a gunsmith that could drill the thing because the receivers are so hard. Had 1 refuse to even try, and another who gave up and handed the gun back after breaking 2 drill bits before even making much of a dent in the receiver. Luckily third time was the charm and I found a guy who could do it right.

351 power · « **Reply #12 on:** February 11, 2009, 12:30:46 PM »

get a lee enfield. rear locking lugs-easier to keep clean. removable bolt head easy to clean. 303 is a great cartridge. tough rifle and easy to find

summit · « **Reply #13 on:** February 11, 2009, 03:57:17 PM »

What about semi-autos and levers? Seems like their actions are a little more covered.

Cowpox · « **Reply #14 on:** February 11, 2009, 07:19:58 PM »

As others have stated, all military bolt guns were designed to be very reliable under adverse conditions. Most (with the possible exclusion of the French MAS 36), can be used effectively in sporting situations.

On the used market, "Sporterized" military rifles which have been changed into hansom sporting configuration can be obtained for reasonable prices. That being said, some of them done by well known builders will bring very high prices.

My favorite is the ones based on the US 1917 Enfield. They are ever present on the internet gun auction sites, and go for bargain prices. Even all out sporters with custom stocks and scopes usually sell under $400.

They are quite strong (many are re-chambered to Magnum calibers), have the claw extractor, and have about the most user friendly safety catch ever used on a military bolt gun.

The biggest objection most fellows have on them is that they cock on closing, but I have two of them, and this feature does not bother me.

Look at some on the auction sites. There are always a few listed, and some really nice looking ones can be gotten cheap.

Catfish · « **Reply #15 on:** February 12, 2009, 02:55:56 PM »

You don`t need a new gun, just wipe all the grease off of it.

Swampman · « **Reply #16 on:** February 12, 2009, 03:02:40 PM »

Remington 700

charles p · « **Reply #17 on:** February 12, 2009, 03:53:30 PM »

I doubt you could wear out a modern bolt action if you never greased it. The main purpose of the lub is to prevent rusting.

I once had a firing pin freeze up on me. It was a cold day and the rifle had just come from a warm truck. When I tried to shoot a few minutes later I could hear the hammer strike the firing pin but it would not move. I went home and put the bolt in boiling water and degreaser to remove all the petroleum lub. I then lubed it with graphite. No problems since. I may wipe the bolt with a rag with RemOil or a similar lub, but nothing heavy. Works in all weather. I am more aware of condensation as well.

mannyrock · « **Reply #18 on:** February 13, 2009, 04:39:30 AM »

Get all of the grease off of the bolt. Wipe it down throughly with a rag soaked in Gunscrubber. Put maybe one drop of oil down the firing pin hole, and that's all.

Buy some dry lube (its a graphite-like, powdered substance,that you can get at any gunstore), and put that on the bolt if you feel like it needs lubrication.

I'm almost sure that this will solve your problem.

If it doesn't, then a good military Mauser 98 action, or Springfield action (don't use a 1903 Action, use a 1903A3 action, these were made only during World War II and don't have the heat treat issue of some of the early Springfields, and they are cheaper). These both have a somewhat wobbly bolt (when the bolt is fully to the rear), in order to make them more realiable in dirty, gritty conditions. You don't need to built a sporterized rifle in one of these actions. Go to a couple of big gun shows, and you will find several of these sporterized rifles for sale, and much cheaper than a new rifle. (Sporterizing these rifles was very very popular in the 1950s, and there are lots of them still around.) But, these rifles can be somewhat heavy.

Hope this helps.

Mannyrock

Skunk · « **Reply #19 on:** February 13, 2009, 04:43:08 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on February 12, 2009, 03:02:40 PM

Remington 700

That's the Spirit Swampy. Glad to see you're feeling better.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #20 on:** February 13, 2009, 04:45:01 AM »

yes they were looking for a sloppy bolt , 700 should do nicely !

Swampman · « **Reply #21 on:** February 13, 2009, 07:09:19 AM »

Good enough for all branches of the military, most police departments, & the most accurate production rifle you can buy.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #22 on:** February 13, 2009, 07:14:18 AM »

as far as military and govt. contracts , key word is LOWEST BIDDER !
As far as most accy. production rifle not really ! Savage is kicking azz there and there are several production rifles that cost more but shoot better .

Swampman · « **Reply #23 on:** February 13, 2009, 07:47:14 AM »

The Savage has always been an economy department store rifle, and it always will be. It's very cheaply made, and not very accurate. The word junk comes to mind.

The Remington 700 is the most accurate production rifle you can buy.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #24 on:** February 13, 2009, 08:32:56 AM »

not really a buddy has one in 223 that out shoots my 700 bdl . both are heavy bbl lam. stock . both are box stock . both came from the same gun shop and his cost more .
you might want to get out and see whats on the shelves , 700's are loosing ground as we speak .

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #25 on:** February 13, 2009, 08:35:46 AM »

BTW Savage has a bench rest rifle out that is whipping butt right out the box . setting the sport on its ear !

teddy12b · « **Reply #26 on:** February 13, 2009, 08:55:52 AM »

I'd be interested in hearing more about how your rifle is jamming in the sand. What's happening there? Failing to feed, extract, fire? Sand is a real pain for rifles and there's no getting around it.

I don't know why it always come down to remington vs savage debate, but when a guy saying a savage isn't that accurate, they have their head in the sand. I'm a fan of both manufactures, but anyone who pays attention to all the new triggers on rifles out there has to admit that Savage is leading the way and others are following the trend. I don't know how it was 20 years ago, 10 years ago but a new savage is a usually going to shoot under 3/4" at 100 if it's a sporter barrel and around 1/2" if it's a heavy barrel.

The new remington sps tactical 308's seem to be the best bargain going for a new tack driving remington and I'd like one. Both brands will shoot very well and there's no getting around that.

It'll be intersting to see how the new accu-stock is received. Maybe we'll start seeing all the other manufacturers putting out new stocks here in a couple years trying to keep up with the innovations that savage keeps coming out with.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #27 on:** February 13, 2009, 09:02:37 AM »

funny thing is i don't own a Savage but do 700 ! Just stated what i have seen .
I worked with a guy who had a Savage 3006 for over 20 years and it shot as well as the new ones .
saw an article once that said Savage sold rifles over seas instead of competing with REM ans WIN when they were rebuilding . Not sure how one can call it junk .

FW Conch · « **Reply #28 on:** February 13, 2009, 09:33:26 PM »

Savage shoots "at least" as well as well as a 700, & the Stevens 200 shoots as well as both of them

for a lot less money ! JMHO Jim

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #29 on:** February 14, 2009, 03:03:31 PM »

Quote from: FW Conch on February 13, 2009, 09:33:26 PM

Savage shoots "at least" as well as well as a 700, & the Stevens 200 shoots as well as both of them

for a lot less money ! JMHO Jim

That's my experience, too. The Savage rifles are known for excellent out-of-the-box accuracy. The one I had would put 5 shots into an area you could cover with a dime at 100 yards. Did it more than once. They may not have the nice cosmetics that the Remington BDL and CDL have, but cosmetics only go so far and do nothing for accuracy.

All in all, I prefer the Ruger design. Mine shoot every bit as well as my M700's.