Author Topic: Favorite Carbine Caliber (Read 2620 times)

GameHauler · « **on:** February 12, 2009, 03:59:39 AM »

Hi all, wondering what everyone's favorite caliber is in
a carbine length barrel for Deer.
Sure wish I could get a 7MM-08 for a Contender
but as you know that is only for the Encore.
Thanks,
Mike

Oh ya,
here in AZ long shots are the norm.

Elwood · « **Reply #1 on:** February 12, 2009, 06:02:56 AM »

I like the 7-30 Waters. My wife and kids use it. It shoots fairly flat to 300 yds. I have been tempted to hunt deer with it because it is so light and short but, I fall back to my 270 due to the longshots. You will probably get more response in the T/C long gun catagory. We mostly hunt Southern AZ.
Elwood

woodchukhntr · « **Reply #2 on:** February 12, 2009, 06:30:05 AM »

.30-30. I have mine sighted in currently with 115 gr. cast bullets, but during the deer season I was using 180 gr. cast bullets. The csat 180's and Remington 150 gr. factory loads shoot under 1 3/4" at 100 yd., not great, but good for upstate New York especially since the gun is so light and easy to carry. The recoil is not objectionable.

JimAdk · « **Reply #3 on:** February 12, 2009, 09:41:19 AM »

I also like the 30/30. I use the Horandy Leverevolution rounds (160 gr.) and they are fantastic for my 23" ss/bull barrel. Mine is sighted in for 125 yards, which can be a far shot in many parts in NY. At 100 yards and 150 yards there is around 0.5" difference.

I agree with woodchukhntr about the recoil, it is especially true when shooting at a deer and not at a target.

basdjs · « **Reply #4 on:** February 12, 2009, 02:06:28 PM »

I've got an Encore .260 Rem. and Savage .260 Rem. which have become my all time favorite deer rifles after 50 years of hunting in the PA. deer woods. Actually I hunt with the Encore and my son hunts with the Savage. The Encore is a great carry or treestand gun and I have barrels for it in 7mm-08, .223, .22 Hornet, and .17 HMR so I hunt year 'round with it for deer and varmints. The .260 is a near-perfect cartridge for deer-sized game...low recoil (especially with LimbSaver recoil pads), tremendous ballistics, and very accurate in both of my guns at long range. The only negative is the cost of factory ammo which is why I just bought the .260 dies from you GameHauler. I decided to get back into reloading for it. I think both Remington (Model 7) and Ruger make a carbine bolt-action in .260. I don't think Savage still does. For the Encore you'd either have to get a custom barrel or find a used .260 barrel since TC stopped making them in the standard factory barrel. It's worth a look!! Nothing wrong with the 7mm-08 either.

Ladobe · « **Reply #5 on:** February 13, 2009, 08:45:43 AM »

Mike - Back when I did my big game hunting (mostly mule deer, elk and bear) with my Contender's I only used pistol length barrels, factory at first and then custom wildcats, and that too was in the wide open spaces of the west where shots could be long. Any of those same cartridges would work fine in a carbine length barrel. Which factory barrels would work is a no brainer, but there is quite a few possible (IMO better) choices for the Contender if you'd consider custom wildcat barrels. Just pick a caliber you like and there will be at least a couple or more possibilities for that caliber, and many of them are very easy to form brass for. Picking a favorite myself would be hard since so many work so well, and it would depend on if it was only for deer or a one barrel that does it all for big game. For deer only I have at least several wildcat favorites in 24, 25, 26, 27, 28 and 30 calibers. For the do it all, the 375JDJ always got the nod.

GameHauler · « **Reply #6 on:** February 14, 2009, 02:38:24 AM »

Thanks for narrowing it down Larry

I am only thinking about Deer with it for now.
I would use my 700, 7MM Mag for Elk and Bear.
I am a big fan of the7MM and will probably work around it.

Mike

Ladobe · « **Reply #7 on:** February 14, 2009, 09:06:23 AM »

Mike,

Here's some 28"s that'll work on the Contender...

7x47
7mm Classic
7mm International Rimmed
7 GNR
7 Merrill
7 Ingram
7 Super Bower
7-30 Waters
7-30 Waters Improved
7/3030 AI
7x30 JDJ
7 TCU
7 JDJ
7 JDJ #2
7 Whisper
7mm SuperMag

Naturally (since the 6.5SB is one of my all time favorites for the Contenders) the 7SB would be my choice if the ranges get really long, but I also like the 7 Merrill for up to elk. (For a long time I really wanted to build a 30 Merrill but couldn't get any help coming up with reamer prints or reamers, so gave up.)

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #8 on:** February 14, 2009, 09:47:59 AM »

I am struggleing with the same thing right now. The only carine barrel I have is a 16.25" 223 Rem.
I would like to get another barrel for deer and have it narrowed down to:
30-30 or 35 Rem. I will probably go with the 30-30 as I already have that in my ammo locker.
While you said you are a big fan of 7mm you are not going to share the same bullet with your 7mm Mag. You may share the same powder in any of the 7's Ladobe listed but generally you are not going to use the same bullet on deer as you do elk. Bullets designed for elk slowly expand to maintain velocity and open to maximize the wound canal in a larger animal. On small white tail most of the energy will be expended outside of the deer.
As a carbine you are probably going to be hunting in the woods and are looking for a carbine round for short distance in brush.
I think the carbine rounds got thier reputation of brush guns due to the large round or flat nosed bullets that trasfer thier energy into the animal and not through the animal. I do not have a lot of experience shooting deer. But in college I shot 3-5 a year plus guided friends on the farm to feed the Rugby house and the weekend parties. NC license is 5-6 deer a year. So we were killing 15 to 20 deer a year on the farm. I was shooting a 308 win. When I would use either a 150 or 165 grain pointed soft point in the woods I found that the deer would take the hit and run a little ways, But when I would use a 180 grain round nose or flat point out of the same gun on the same sized deer with center chest hits the deer would go down and there would not be a walk in the woods looking for the deer. The only good news is that the deer when hit with the lighter faster bullets tend to run to the field and would usually mean less dragging to get to the Jeep. But there also have been some times when it was touch and go if we were going to find the deer. All of the 180 grain round nose shot deer in the chest went down in a few steps.
So my vote is to try something new and go 30 to 35 caliber with a big slow slug.

GameHauler · « **Reply #9 on:** February 14, 2009, 10:31:18 AM »

Thanks Larry.
Can you point me in a good direction
to find ballistics on wild cat rounds?

Woodduck,
I grew up in PA and hunted thick woods like that.
I agree a 30-30 and like rounds are good for that.
We do have thick woods and I hunted Coues Deer
this year in that type of cover and for that type of hunting
I did and will use my 7-30 Waters in a 15" barrel in hand gun configuration.
I want to set this up for a light weight pack in gun.
The 7's are flatter and faster shooters in general and that
works better in this situation.
As far as sharing components I agree with you.
For my Model700 chambered in 7MM Rem Mag I shoot 168gr Bergers
but for a carbine length and smaller case I would be using something
in the 120 to 140gr.

Mike

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #10 on:** February 14, 2009, 10:59:25 AM »

If you already have a 7-30 waters than it's a no brainer to me.
Get a 7-30 waters barrel in 16.25 to 23" or add an inch and a half muzzle break to your pistol barrel and quick change rings to go from pistol to rifle scopes.
Other option is scout scope set up that can be used for both applications.

GameHauler · « **Reply #11 on:** February 14, 2009, 11:08:06 AM »

Quote from: mcwoodduck on February 14, 2009, 10:59:25 AM

If you already have a 7-30 waters than it's a no brainer to me.
Get a 7-30 waters barrel in 16.25 to 23" or add an inch and a half muzzle break to your pistol barrel and quick change rings to go from pistol to rifle scopes.
Other option is scout scope set up that can be used for both applications.

Barrel already has a break.
I am leaning towards 7-30 Waters
since I already have dies and brass.
I like new things too

Mike

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #12 on:** February 14, 2009, 11:43:09 AM »

OK,
But with out having the Cart of the world with me I think 7-30 waters and the 7mm JDJ's are going to have the bigest case capacity and there fore give you what you want as a flat shooting hunting carbine.
The 7mmTCU is neat but you are limited to small bullets. may not be a bad thing with barnes bullets. As a 120 grain barnes copper bullet is as long as a standard 140 grain. So you may be able to get away with smaller weights but longer bullets for big game with the 7mm TCU or 7mmX45 and the small powder charge.
Heck from what I remember reading about 7mm JDJ it's almost 280/ 270 in balistics. Don't hold me to that, i will look it up tonight and give weights and speeds from the book later. You may want a longer barrel than 21 inches to get the most out of it. The cool thing with the T/C is that even a 26" barrel will still be the same over all length as a standard action bolt with a 20" barrel. My T/C with the 16" barrel and stock is shorter than the kid 22LR I have from the 60's ( H&R huntsman)

Sweetwater · « **Reply #13 on:** February 14, 2009, 12:40:59 PM »

One of my pals in WYoming had a 309JDJ with a 15" barrel on a Contender. It was deadly on deer and antelope. Ballistics equal to a standard rifle in 308W. He also had the 375JDJ. What a package!

Regards,
Sweetwater

Ladobe · « **Reply #14 on:** February 14, 2009, 08:11:18 PM »

Quote

Thanks Larry.
Can you point me in a good direction to find ballistics on wild cat rounds?

Where to get data on the wildcats kind of depends on which wildcat you are interested in Mike. Some are readily available, some are not. My data on all of those I've had is all packed away in storage, so not readily available.

Quote

I think 7-30 waters and the 7mm JDJ's are going to have the bigest case capacity and there fore give you what you want as a flat shooting hunting carbine.

Nada. The 7mmJDJ is based on the 225 Win case (about 15% less case cap than the 7-30). The 7mm30 JDJ is the one based on the 7-30 case. I think you are confusing the 7mm JDJ and 7mm JDJ #2, the latter of which is based on the 307/356 Win case same as the 7 Super Bower. Both of these have about 25% more case capacity than the 7-30 Waters.

Quote

What a package!

Got my first 375 JDJ about 27-28 years ago and went through 4 of them (many, many thousands of rounds). For a lot of years my JDJ "package" included the four I settled on to do it all, the 257, 6.5, 309 and 375 JDJ's. With the four of them I could hunt anything that walked the earth. But I also had 22, 6.5, 30 Alaskan and 429 Super Bowers that I could also hunt anything that walked the earth with. All the JDJ's are gone and I'm down to just the 6.5 Super Bower now. Kept it as the last hold out because it will almost do it all, and at much longer ranges than any of the others.

Steelbanger · « **Reply #15 on:** February 15, 2009, 12:38:54 AM »

GameHauler,

That carbine stock set on its way to Arizona has the forearm inletted for the old, standard 21" T/C barrels. I believe the 23" barrels are heavier and would mean some inletting work for you.

Where in PA are your roots?

no guns here · « **Reply #16 on:** February 15, 2009, 12:48:31 AM »

I guess my new favorite will be the 6.8 SPC. Since I just bought the barrel, by this summer it'll be my favorite. That could change by fall though...

ngh

GameHauler · « **Reply #17 on:** February 15, 2009, 02:10:22 AM »

Quote from: Steelbanger on February 15, 2009, 12:38:54 AM

GameHauler,

That carbine stock set on its way to Arizona has the forearm inletted for the old, standard 21" T/C barrels. I believe the 23" barrels are heavier and would mean some inletting work for you.

Where in PA are your roots?

Thanks Steelbanger.
Looking forward to the mailman Tuesday.
I grew up in Clarion.
Mike

Camp Cook · « **Reply #18 on:** February 16, 2009, 05:45:07 PM »

My favorite 30 cal for my Contender carbine is (oh man I'm not allowed to name it on this forum) I'll try it this way 308X444 which is 444 Marlin brass necked down with 308 Win dies and loaded to 300 Savage velocities example 150gr = 2620fps from my factory rechambered 21" barrel.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #19 on:** February 17, 2009, 05:50:06 AM »

LADOBE,
When I got home I pulled out Cartridges of the world and was suprised to see that the 7mm JDJ was made from the 225 Win Case and that the No.2 was made from the 307 case. When I saw the JDJ I just guessed at the 444 marlin case. I was also suprised that there was not a 444 cased No 3 and that there was a 280 JDJ but for the encore only, that is a riconfigured plain old 280 case /06 parrent.

Would a 307 win work in a T/C contender? or are the pressure levels too high? And now that I do not have my book with me. Is there any advantage of 307 over 30-40 Krag?

Ladobe · « **Reply #20 on:** February 17, 2009, 08:12:28 AM »

mcwoodduck -

The 307 Win based JDJ and Bower wildcats can also be made from 356 Win and shortened 444 Marlin brass.

The 307 Win is considered too much for the Contender, so is the 30-40 Krag. They both require the Encore platform.

Never bothered to compare them against each other before as I haven't owned a Krag since the mid 60's, and I've never owned a 307 Win (but a pard got one last year that we've discussed). So just off the cuff, the 307 was designed for use in lever rifles shooting much lighter weight bullets than the Krag in bolt rifles. So I guess you pick which one for the Encore depending on whether you want to shoot 150 gr or 220 grain bullets. Brass availability is a factor - the 307 Win is more readily available than 30-40 Krag.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #21 on:** February 17, 2009, 08:27:13 AM »

Really? I would have thought the 30-40 was more available. I see boxes of 30-40K on the shelves at stores in the 180 grain Rem load but have not seen a box of 307 Win in years. I know both are just short of .308 Win in proformance and very similar to 300 Savage or 303 Brit.

contendernut · « **Reply #22 on:** February 17, 2009, 04:05:26 PM »

Hi Larry,

I tried to get a 6.5SB from Don once or twice. I think his machinist wasn't working at the time. The 30 Alaskin and 7SB are the only two I have had. Do you have any information on Don? Last time I talked to him was maybe 5 years ago but I think he went downhill since.

Ladobe · « **Reply #23 on:** February 17, 2009, 06:46:30 PM »

mcwoodduck,
If you'll reread what I wrote, you'll see I referred to "brass" availability to wildcat from, not loaded factory ammo. I prefer fresh new brass to wildcat from over once fired.

Gary,
I haven't talked to Don for years either. Last I heard he was declining and struggling even more so with the health problems that caused him to sell out to Marc. I've almost called him a couple of times, but decided not to disturb him. I am going through the same and don't want to hear about my calls anymore, so probably know better than most how he feels. Ernie has talked to him in the last year I think.

troy_mclure · « **Reply #24 on:** February 18, 2009, 08:52:14 PM »

my shooting buddy has a 21" contender bbl in .300 whisper. he uses it for deer in heavy brush/<100m.

charles p · « **Reply #25 on:** February 19, 2009, 03:01:22 AM »

I've had two pistols in 7-30W. They were good beyond 150 yds. Same bullet as the 7mm-08 but from a blown our 30-30 case. Also it is a rimmed cartridge so it fires every time.

GameHauler · « **Reply #26 on:** March 05, 2009, 02:08:07 AM »

Quote from: Steelbanger on February 15, 2009, 12:38:54 AM

GameHauler,

That carbine stock set on its way to Arizona has the forearm inletted for the old, standard 21" T/C barrels. I believe the 23" barrels are heavier and would mean some inletting work for you.

Where in PA are your roots?

Can anyone confirm this so I know what I need to look for.
Also, are the for end mounting screws spaced the same?
That is more important than contour as I can inlet more.
Thanks Mike