Author Topic: Talk to a newb about turret presses  (Read 2441 times)

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Offline HuntMeister

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Talk to a newb about turret presses
« on: February 12, 2009, 09:45:17 AM »
To my inexperienced eye a turret press seems like the way to go, no setting up dies for every stage of a reload, just swap out turrets for different calibers. I do not want to do the auto indexing route, just want to keep it simple and easy. Am I missing something?

What are the pros / cons to them?

I hear bad & good about LEE products but the Classic Turret Press looks well built to me and for a guy on a budget it sure is in the right price range. I am not opposed to spending a bit more if the LEE is a bad choice though.

Your thoughts please...

Offline torpedoman

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Re: Talk to a newb about turret presses
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2009, 10:20:17 AM »
I use the lee and love it just for the ability to change calibers in a snap but also no set up the next time i start to reload. just plug in the turret and go. now for reality, you'll get answers of this one is no good and i wouldn't use it on a bet of course you'll get that flip side were no one would use what that guy is using.The lee makes good usable ammo that works fine and is more accurate than factory ammo and cheaper . you can spend more to do the same with other tools. Just one guys opinion.
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Offline beerbelly

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Re: Talk to a newb about turret presses
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2009, 11:08:10 AM »
I am new at this myself. I bought the four hole Lee turret press and I like it just fine. How ever I so far am only loading pistol rounds. Set it up and using the auto indexing it will make a cartage in nothing flat.
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Offline spinafish

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Re: Talk to a newb about turret presses
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2009, 11:21:59 AM »
I have a room full of Lee dies..but I have a Lyman turret press..I really enjoy it.
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Offline Savage

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Re: Talk to a newb about turret presses
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2009, 11:25:50 AM »
The Lee Classic Turret Press is the best thing going in turret presses! It takes about 5 seconds to change it to or from auto index or single stage. I load 9mm/.40/.45 on a progressive. Everything else I load on the turret. I have turrets set up for other calibers that I don't shoot so much. Mine is set up with the auto prime system and a powder measure. I can shuck out ammo pretty quick using the auto indexing feature. Or use it single stage to batch load rifle ammo. Much faster than a single stage without the expense of the progressives. I can knock out 100 rds in 20-25 minutes without breaking a sweat.
Savage
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Offline Badnews Bob

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Re: Talk to a newb about turret presses
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2009, 11:25:55 AM »
I had a older Lee turrent press and used it alot it worked just fine, I sold it to a freind and bought the new cast turrent press from Lee it works GREAT I really like it the thing is a tank I also have dillion presses and RCBS equipment Redding and Lyman it all works get what suits you and your wallet. I think Lee has made some great improvements in there cast line of presses thou. 8)
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Offline wncchester

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Re: Talk to a newb about turret presses
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2009, 11:52:54 AM »
"To my inexperienced eye a turret press seems like the way to go, no setting up dies for every stage of a reload, just swap out turrets for different calibers. I do not want to do the auto indexing route, just want to keep it simple and easy. Am I missing something?"

Yeah, you're missing something.  A turret looked good to me too, so I got one for my first press.  Didn't take long for me to know I'd gone wrong, for me anyway.  I bought a Lyman 6 hole turret because it was "obviously" going to be faster.  But I didn't like the slop that any turret has to have (or the turrent couldn't turn, right?) so I locked the turret down solid, no turning possible.  It made it a funny looking single stage.  I eventually just bought a decent single stage and retired the turret to making pistol ammo only but it really was very little faster than the single.

You need to understand that each loading die has lock rings we set and leave in place.  All "setting up" a preset die requires is to screw it in and back out, it's no more difficult than that.  Finger tight is plenty here, there is no need to wrench a die down.  (I can't for the life of me figger out the attraction some have for "breech lock" type die bushings for "quick die changes".  It only takes a few seconds to screw the dies in normally and it really isn't a difficult task for people with at least one good functioning hand!)

A good single stage press, such as the Lee Classic Cast, etc, is tremendously strong and can be used to reform cases and make wildcat cases with ease.  It will maintain alignment between the die and the ram a bit better than any rotating turret head can possible do.  

That said, the Lee Classic Cast press is perhaps the best "turret" press available for common reloading work.  The primary difference between it and others, including mine, is that it has  an "auto-indexing" system that steps the turret over to the next die after each function.  That makes it a sort of poor man's "semi-progressive."  It's (potentially) significantly faster to load a round on than a single stage press can hope to be and that can be great for pistol ammo.  BUT, speed may not be an advantage to all reloaders.  In fact, speed of operation can be detrimental IF you are precision loading for bottle-necked rifle stuff.  

I have read that some owners disable the Lee auto-index feature and use the press without rotation sometimes.  But, like with mine, that sure makes it a funny looking single stage!    ;)

Get what you want but now you have a wider perspective on turret presses.   Have fun!



Common sense is an uncommon virtue

Offline HuntMeister

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Re: Talk to a newb about turret presses
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2009, 12:29:19 PM »

You need to understand that each loading die has lock rings we set and leave in place.  All "setting up" a preset die requires is to screw it in and back out, it's no more difficult than that.  Finger tight is plenty here, there is no need to wrench a die down.  (I can't for the life of me figger out the attraction some have for "breech lock" type die bushings for "quick die changes".  It only takes a few seconds to screw the dies in normally and it really isn't a difficult task for people with at least one good functioning hand!)


AH HA, I did not know about the lock rings to setup a die. Thank you for pointing that out!

Offline gypsyman

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Re: Talk to a newb about turret presses
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2009, 02:45:12 PM »
Been using a Redding turret press for the last 4-5 years, when they came out with T-7. Absolutley the strongest turret press on the market. Not cheap though. One of the 1000yd bench rest shooters that shot a worlds record a couple years ago uses one, as well as the 600yd shooter. Not built for speed. If you want a press for bulk loading, get a Dillion. gypsyman
We keep trying peace, it usually doesn't work!!Remember(12/7/41)(9/11/01) gypsyman

Offline Savage

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Re: Talk to a newb about turret presses
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2009, 02:47:42 AM »
Any turret press will load ammo more accurate than 95% of shooters and their rifles. If that's not good enough, go to a Forster Co Axial press. Having interchangeable turrets for caliber change is the "Bees Knees" !  Anything else might as well be single stage.
Savage
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Offline Val

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Re: Talk to a newb about turret presses
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2009, 03:56:51 AM »
I use an RCBS turret press and like it. I like the fact that in the process of loading, if I find a problem I can easily go back to a previous step without having to remove and reinstall the dies. I get some loads in some of the calibers that are sub 1/2" three shot groups.
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Offline HuntMeister

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Re: Talk to a newb about turret presses
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2009, 04:55:50 AM »
OK Savage, I am assuming the "Bees Knees" is a good thing??

Guys I do NOT want a fast, progressive type assembly, perfectly happy with single stage speed but I do want to eliminate as much setup as I can.
Val, the option to go back to a previous step sounds really good, I had not thought of that one either.

Thanks to all for your valuable thoughts and experiences, please keep em coming!

Offline wncchester

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Re: Talk to a newb about turret presses
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2009, 05:53:46 AM »
"Val, the option to go back to a previous step sounds really good, I had not thought of that one either."

Won't argue the point but I can't imagine that being a problem. 

Using a single stage press, I "batch" process my loads, working all the cases through each step before starting the next.  That requires taking the cases from one loading block and, after eyeballing the results and accuracy of what I just did,  putting them into another block.  There is no possible confusion about where I am in the over-all sequence nor can any function be overlooked even if I get a phone call, etc, in the middle of my work. 

So, why anyone would need, or want, to re-do a "previous step" eludes me.  ??

Without question, the Redding T-7 is good.  It's the most massive and strong (and expensive!) turret press available but it still MUST have a bit of slop in the turret or it simply couldn't turn.  Other than it's great mass, I see no value it has over my old Lyman Spar-T, which is plenty strong enough to load any normal cartridge.

The only turret plates that accept additional, easily swapped preloaded turrets, are the Lees and the VEERY EXPENSIVE Dillon progressives.  None of the others provide a simple way for turrets to be popped in and out at will, not so far as I am aware anyway. 

A really good loader can produce good quality ammo on almost any press but a truly accurately aligned press - a single stage - makes precision loading easier, especially for a new guy.
Common sense is an uncommon virtue

Offline Savage

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Re: Talk to a newb about turret presses
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2009, 11:43:09 AM »
HuntMeister,
Yep the "Bees Knees" is a good thing!  ;D  IMO you give up half the advantage of a turret press if you cannot readily change turrets. Like Winchester, I disable the auto index and batch my .223 ammo. I don't know if I could load more accurate ammo on another type of press or not. Both my ARs shoot into an inch or less with this ammo. Good enough for this country boy! I gave my Rock Chucker to my son, anything I don't load on a progressive goes on a turret.
Savage
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Offline Val

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Re: Talk to a newb about turret presses
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2009, 04:24:26 AM »
wncchester,
I sometimes detect a defect in the brass or decide that during load develpment reloading that I want a few more of a certain charge weight or suddenly find that what I thought was a full box of ammo is missing a few rounds, etc. Maybe I'm getting senile, but I do find the need to go back to a previous steps occasionally.
Hunting and fishing are not matters of life or death. They are much more important than that.

Offline Glanceblamm

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Re: Talk to a newb about turret presses
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2009, 05:01:15 AM »
I have a room full of Lee dies..but I have a Lyman turret press..I really enjoy it.

Redding & RCBS dies here with again, the Lyman Tmag.
Most complaints are that there is some play in the system but if you really think about it, It probably does help things line up a bit better on the down stroke of the ram.

I reload for a (spray n pray) friend now & again and to manually put this press through its paces is fun & easy but I always did like the simpler things in life like single action revolvers to include cap n ball.
For my own reloading I run the turrent as a single stage. If I were to buy another press it would be a single stage.

Offline longwinters

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Re: Talk to a newb about turret presses
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2009, 07:41:15 AM »
I have no experience with the Lee stuff.  But I do have a RCBS Turret and would never change...unless maybe for a Redding.  The Redding turrets have 7 holes which is great if you like to put a bullet puller on each turret.  For me handy is the name of the game.

But I reload for 8 different calibers and each rifle shoots under MOA with stuff loaded on my turret. 

Long
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Offline sr sawyer

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Re: Talk to a newb about turret presses
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2009, 10:29:36 AM »
My first press was a Lyman S-T turret with 30-30 dies and the press worked fine for for this caliber.  Then added 30-06 and decided the turret was not rigid enough when sizing military surplus brass so I bought a RCBS RockChucker and added two more single stage presses since.  I still use the turret to house the seating dies of the calibers I load the most and do all sizing on the singles.  The turret is also great if you load calibers that require a three die set.  I think a turret press is a good choice for a first press but you will probably add a single stage after you get hooked.  ReLoading is like buying a Handi rifle, you will get addicted.   
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Offline Dand

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Re: Talk to a newb about turret presses
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2009, 09:19:07 PM »
I started with an RCBS Jr single stage press in the 1970's then got the Lyman Tmag in the 90's and have been plenty happy with it. I'm not a benchrest accuracy shooter but I can tell no difference in the ammo I've made on either press. My 300 win will still shoot to.5 to 1 MOA at 100. If I were to buy a press today it would be the Lee Classic Turret. I have almost bought it several times but other bills always come along. I like my Lyman but turrets are expensive, heavy and a bit slow to change. I have 4 turrets loaded with dies for 6 calibers. But I like to switch around a lot and load small batches so I keep one turret partially open for the other 4-5 calibers I load. The Lee or the Dillon turret are much handier to switch turrets. I load all my hand gun rounds in semi progressive style on the Lyman - the with the auto advance available on the Lee I'd love it. I have a Lee ProAuto  disk powder measure and Lee case mouth expand / thru die powder dispensing. With most fine grained handgun powders it works very well.  Look on the Midway site for product reviews of the Lee Classic turret - I don't think there is a single negative review (last time I looked anyway).

As to why would one need to back up?  Over the years I have been part way thru a batch and found a case problem - undetected split neck - or damaged a case being careless inserting a bullet - any number of reasons. I do recall turning out a seating die, sizing or resizing a case or 2 then resuming my process by batch. Now its just a matter of rotating the turret. 

One thing - to do what I call the semi progressive with the Lyman takes some careful concentration to be sure you keep the operation going in the right order as I rotate  the head left and right to complete each round. I've pinched my fingers a few times and made a couple other mistakes when my mind wandered.  I think the auto index of the Lee would help reduce that concern.
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Offline Old English

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Re: Talk to a newb about turret presses
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2009, 12:19:45 AM »
The Lee classic cast press is a bargain and all you need. I guess I've had mine for 2 years and it's loaded a bunch of ammo in 8 calibers, some resizing brass to different calibers.
The turrets swap out in seconds and you know that the dies will be set exactly the same every time. I do not use the auto index, basically I use it like a single stage and turn the turret manually from resizing to bullet seating etc. I use mainly Lee dies although I have some RCBS and Redding. I honestly don't have any accuracy issues with any of them.
Great press and great design, turrets are less than $10 a piece and they have proved very durable.

Offline jgalar

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Re: Talk to a newb about turret presses
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2009, 04:45:47 AM »
I have been using the old Lee 4 hole turret press for about 10 years. The only things I believe could be improved are the priming system, the lack of space for rifle cartridges, and spent primers will fall on the floor. The new Classic Turret Press addresses and solves these issues.

There are a couple of videos showing the new Lee press in action here:
http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1234712548.1665=/html/HelpVideos/video.html


Offline Siskiyou

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Re: Talk to a newb about turret presses
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2009, 06:33:49 AM »
I bought a Lyman Spar-T turret press kit in the late 1960's.  It has done a good job.  I use Lyman American, RCBS, Hornady, and Lee dies in it. 

A while back I bought a Lyman T-MAG-II press.  It is a powerfull Turret press, I would not be surprised if I could load 50BMG on it.  I am currently using it for rifle and the Spar-T for pistol.  I have one hole dedicated to a Lee decapping die.  Currently I have 30-30 Winchester and 270 Winchester dies on it.  I like to do production loading from 50 to 100+ cases to minimize die adjustments.

A question?  Can I use a 308 or 30-06 bullet seating die, with the bullet seating screw removed as dedicated 30-30 crimping die?  This would save the minor cost of a Lee 30-30 crimping die.  I have not been able to find one on the shelve locally, and shipping cost as much as the die.  Yep, I am cheap!  I have already decided to try the 308 die as a dedicated crimper for the .300 Savage.

There is a learning process to effectively using a gps.  Do not throw your compass and map away!

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Offline mdi

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Re: Talk to a newb about turret presses
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2009, 07:25:32 AM »
I reload as a hobby and don't have any quotas to meet, so, changing dies isn't a problem for me (really, how much difference does 45 seconds to one minute make?). I would suggest a first press be a single stage press. Learning to reload with a single stage press will allow you to learn the "why" (theory) of each reloading step. Adjusting dies will show you what each adjustment has to do with the finished round, and as stated earlier lock rings will give you "return to" settings. In my opinion, there is a big difference between throwing a bunch of components together to go bang (reloading) and manufacturing custom ammo for your specific gun (handloading) and knowing each step in the process will only allow you to make better, more consistant ammo. Handloading is a VERY rewarding part of my shooting, and fun too!

Go slow, Be safe, enjoy!

Afterthought; Besides if you want to upgrade to a higher production set up at a later time, you can sell your single stage press for a grossly inflated price on Ebay!


Offline Siskiyou

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Re: Talk to a newb about turret presses
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2009, 12:57:52 PM »
I have found that high quality ammunition can be load on a T-Press.  It can be used as a single stage press or if the user chooses as a multi-stage press.

In fact my loading normally follows this path.  When doing load development I load five loads, five rounds each progressive increasing the powder charge.  A trip to the range to test the loads for safety, accuracy, and velocity.   I might stop at load three (5 ea.) because it is the most suitable, and pull the bullets on loads four and five.

I next trim the brass, chamfer the mouth, inspect the case, and run a bent paper clip inside the case looking for case separation.  The case is then de-primed and tossed into the tumbler.  This is done with the Lee de-capping die, in residence in the T-Press; this die has worked without any addition adjustment on a number of cases. 

Each case is given a quick visual inspect on removal from the case tumbler and is wiped of any residual dust from the tumbler, and the primer pocket is included in the inspection for cleaning material blocking the primer pocket.  The case is then primed and placed in the loading block.  I use a hand primer.

I load both big stick and Ball powder.  I choose the more time consuming method of tossing a load from my powder measure then weighing it on my scale, trickling the last few grains of powder.  Many of my handgun loads are scoop measured. 

If this is a new combination and I have loaded test loads I have already installed my dies, which by the way, require the same precise adjustments in a T-Press and as a single stage press.  The time comes from installing dies, removing the die, and then returning to the press to produce the final lot to load the load that provides accuracy, function ability, along with falling into the desired velocity range as recorded with the Chrony.

I rotate the turret and the pre-adjusted resizing die clicks into position.  A lube case is picked up and neck lubed.  The case is then placed into the press and resized.  The case is wipe, and gets a quick visual inspection. And is primed before placing in the loading block.

I then charge each case setting in the block, after completing the charging I shine a light into each case looking to see that charge depth is consistent. 

I then rotate the head of the T-Press bringing the properly pre-adjusted bullet-seating die into place.  The bullet is seated into the case.  In the pass I have crimped the case if required.  Taking advantage of the multi able die head I can add another die for crimping if desired.  This is the only time I would rotate the head without first returning the case to the block.  The T-Mag II rotates and indexes easier then the old Spar-T press.  As you can see I use the T-PRESS more as a single stag press, and not completing all phases of the loading process once the casing is placed in the shell holder the first time.

To me “Production Loading” is loading more than 20-rounds at a time.  I prefer to load fifty to one hundred plus rounds of the same caliber in a run.  I have a lot of handgun brass and I might load five hundred at a time.  Shortcuts are not taken, and I may use the T-Press more like a single stag press most of the time.  Ammunition I load normally exceeds the accuracy of factory ammunition.  In the last forty plus years I have taken numerous head of Blacktail, Mule deer, and antelope with ammunition loaded on the Spar-T, and have continued that success using the T-Mag II press. 

A Ruger M77, 7MM Remington Magnum is a Junker with a variety of factory ammunition, but is a winner with ammunition loaded on the old Spar-T. 

Having started loading over fifty years ago with a Lee  hand press, and a barrowed RCBS single stage press.  I am happy with the product off the Lyman Turret Press.  I qualified with a 30-06 using ammunition loaded for accuracy off the Spar-T press.  There is no more serious business, depending on reliability, and accuracy. 

Admittedly if I were a 1000-yard bench rest competitor I would have far pricier equipment.  High price equipment does not replace quality control.

 
http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/presses-and-kits/Lyc_RPK_Tmag.php

I paid far less then the price shown here, I bought mine on sale from Midway.
There is a learning process to effectively using a gps.  Do not throw your compass and map away!

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Offline HuntMeister

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Re: Talk to a newb about turret presses
« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2009, 12:27:56 PM »
THANKS to all for your thoughts! I really appreciate it.

Offline wncchester

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Re: Talk to a newb about turret presses
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2009, 03:33:18 AM »
"Can I use a 308 or 30-06 bullet seating die, with the bullet seating screw removed as dedicated 30-30 crimping die?"

Not likely.  Those dies are usually too long for the shorter case to reach the crimping ring.

Sisk, your loading method is virtually identical to mine when using a turret press.  (I decap in a little Lee "Reloader" press dedicated to that task, it catches spent primers much better and cleaner.)  But, having the dies "preset" during the sequence only means we took time for the setup before we started rather than doing it between steps with a single stage.  That equals about the same amount of setup time, in total?

Setup time being equal, I gain NO practical advantage from a common turret but do get ALL of it's disadvantages!  So, my sturdy old six station Lyman press is relegated to a few special purpose tasks, very seldom used for reloading any more.
Common sense is an uncommon virtue

Offline Flash

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Re: Talk to a newb about turret presses
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2009, 01:37:48 PM »
Some here will probably jump all over me for this but here goes. The Lee equipment is made of softer cast metals which wear quickly and much faster when the press ram is cold rolled steel. Do yourself a favor and don't buy a Lee press. Their dies are fine and bullet molds are too but everything else Lee makes is substandard. All Lee equipment has an engineered life span and it isn't very long.
What doesn't kill us, makes us stronger!

Offline Siskiyou

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Re: Talk to a newb about turret presses
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2009, 04:53:23 PM »
wncchester you are correct on the Lee 30-30 case, I conducted a simple test with a loaded 30-30 round.  I drop the 30-30 round in the 30-06 sizing die while holding it mouth up.  It disappeared like magic.

It has been suggested that I buy the Lee Factory Bullet Seating Die for the 30-30.  Most likely I will act on that suggestion.

But having started the balling rolling I checked the .308 caliber die sets I have and the maximum over all length of the cases they are designed for:

30-06   2.494”
.308 Win.   2.015”
300 Sav.    1.871”
30-30 Win. 2.037

I just came back from the reloading bench. I inserted a loaded 30-30 round into the 308 bullet seating/crimping die.  Next I tried a loaded and an empty .300 Savage round.  Without producing an actual round it would appear the 308 seating/crimping die with the bullet-seating stem removed would work as a crimping die in the T-Press.  The process would be to seat the bullet, lower the ram, rotate the turret head and crimp the case.

In case I lost somebody Sierra recommends when loading the 30-30 Winchester to make bullet seating and crimping two different steps.  I suspect this is to keep from collapsing the thin case wall, but I am not sure.

I might also experiment using the .308 die for crimping .300 Savage loads. 

The cost of shipping of the Lee Die is more then the die now days.  I will continue to look for one in different shops I visit in the future.






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Boycott: San Francisco, L.A., Oakland, and City of Sacramento, CA.

Offline Badnews Bob

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Re: Talk to a newb about turret presses
« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2009, 09:02:31 AM »
Some here will probably jump all over me for this but here goes. The Lee equipment is made of softer cast metals which wear quickly and much faster when the press ram is cold rolled steel. Do yourself a favor and don't buy a Lee press. Their dies are fine and bullet molds are too but everything else Lee makes is substandard. All Lee equipment has an engineered life span and it isn't very long.

How do you know this? The new Lee cast presses have only been out a few years and its doubtful anyone has used one enuff to wear one out.  They are very stout built and are getting good reviews across the board except by people who have never used one and are basing the info they give on older Lee presses.

BTW I had a Lee turrent press that is around 25 years old I bought it well used and I have loaded thousands of rounds on it, it is still working well for the guy I ssold it to when I up graded to a classic cast turrent. 8)
Badnews Bob
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Offline Flash

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Re: Talk to a newb about turret presses
« Reply #29 on: February 19, 2009, 11:08:58 AM »
The reason how I know this is because I started reloading on a Lee press. I couldn't figure out why the resized case necks weren't exactly concentric with the case body and base. The pot metal had started to wear badly where the ram came through the body of the press. This allowed the ram to come up to the die on a slight angle and even though it was only a few degrees, it made a difference. I started to lube the ram and the lube turned silvery with the worn metal. I wrote Lee and they told me to ship it back and they would check it out. I threw it out and bought a Lyman turret and later, a Dillon SDB and a 550B. I haven't had a problem since and have been reloading for close to 30 years.
What doesn't kill us, makes us stronger!