Author Topic: survival gun ? (Read 6828 times)

SHOOTALL · « **on:** February 13, 2009, 04:37:15 AM »

if you had to grab and run in a short periord of time such as a big fire , bad weather roit etc. what would be a good choice . I think a hand gun would be nice and if possible a shot gun in 12 or 20 ga. short bbl. such as a turkey model or even a pistol grip . the pistol grip gun could be kept in baggage and out of sight a plus in some cases for sure . there are many other items we would need to carry so we may only carry one weapon and a small amount of ammo .

no guns here · « **Reply #1 on:** February 13, 2009, 05:16:22 AM »

Well... the only one of the three scenarios that would affect me in the US would be fire. Grass/brush fire could and have happened around our place. No riots... no people to riot. Storms come too fast... tornadoes don't tend to give you much time. In case of fire, I don't know, it would all depend on circumstances. We have two horse trailers, a flat bed and two (soon to be three) trucks. With even a couple of hours of prep time we could load mucho stuff. I wouldn't plan on grabbing one gun. I'd plan on grabbing one apiece. Right now we're in Germany so most that I would plan on is riots. That's what we have M16's for. I have guns in my quarters. I shoot, my wife shoots and two of my four kids are competitive shooters. Dang, just realized, I need another rifle... but still I think a good pistol of some configuration and then my 11-87, AR-15, 390A and my 1895SS would be the one's that I would reach for for now. Hmmm.... I think that I need to do some more planning. I just realized that I need to standardize on one pistol and one rifle. Two of each would be good.

ngh

teddy12b · « **Reply #2 on:** February 13, 2009, 06:02:27 AM »

A 10-22 with a couple mags & blicks of ammo makes for a quick grab with a lot of potential.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #3 on:** February 13, 2009, 07:18:54 AM »

not sure how rimfire ammo stands up to moisture . The heel type bullet dosen't seal as well as other bullets .
but an idea ! maybe a system to keep ammo dry ?

teddy12b · « **Reply #4 on:** February 13, 2009, 07:32:42 AM »

Such a system has already been designed. Ziplock bags, hefty bags, saran wrap..... If are worried about getting your ammo wet, use a quality ammo can with the rubber seal, then put everything in as many plastic bags as you'd like.

With the options available for a 22lr it would be my first choice. You could have thousands of rounds in a shoe box and loaded mags weigh nothing.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #5 on:** February 13, 2009, 07:37:53 AM »

food storage bags was what i was thinking with the heaT seal . I like the 22 rf and rf mag. The shot gun is my first choice as even when sick , hurt etc. you still stand a chance of hitting some thing . But if someone else was along like a wife a good 22 rifle would be welcome . One with a suppresor might become a first choice HUMM !

Graybeard · « **Reply #6 on:** February 13, 2009, 12:11:15 PM »

I really can't imagine a set of circumstances that would make me want to leave my home short of a tornado bearing down on it and if that's the case it's kinda late to be leaving anyway. For me in my specific set of circumstances leaving just isn't a viable option for any scenario I can imagine riding it out here is a superior option to leaving.

backstrap · « **Reply #7 on:** February 13, 2009, 06:00:56 PM »

The rifle i would take is my 16" light wight barrled ar-15, i could shoot any thing from rabbits to deer to a big o hefty steer if it came down to it

Freezer · « **Reply #8 on:** February 14, 2009, 03:22:31 AM »

If I was going to plan for it short term a .223/12 guage turkey gun comes to mind. For hiding/hunting/defence I'd say 45LC lever gun and revolver.

Singleshotsam · « **Reply #9 on:** February 14, 2009, 03:53:02 AM »

In my neck of the woods we have 3 senarios that could alter life as I know it for a period of time.

Massive Flooding
Earthquakes
Ice Storms

Back in my young days (yeah i'm only 25) I remember 2 major events. 1 being the great flood of 93, and the other being Dr. Brownings prediction of a massive earthquake on the New Madrid fault line, devistating SEMO. Well, the big one (earthquake) never hit, even though on the day it was predicted every school in SEMO was evacuated. As many of you have seen on the news a recent Ice storm rolled through SEMO and other states knocking out power to more than 20,000 citizens. That puts a huge strain on people. Power was out at my house for about a week. Some citizens are without power.

Really made me think about a survival weapon. I've come to the conclusion that a law enforcement style shotgun that is compatible w/ choketubes is my choice for survival. Here's why.

A shotgun can kill any variety of game in North America. W/ light game shot, squirrels, rabbits, birds. W/ Slugs or buckshot, deer, or intruders. They are one of the highest rated home defense weapons. What they lack are range and accuracy. Thats why you keep a reliable rifle on hand for accuracy. Ulitmately I want a 16" ar style carbine, but until they quit being rediculously expensive, the ol 870 will have to do.

Sorry for such a long post.

Sam

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #10 on:** February 15, 2009, 09:12:37 AM »

GB not sure about the dirty bomb being possible but if so that , fire for some , weather , riots ( been around that once ) or if you travel and can't get home what would be good to have in the truck ?

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #11 on:** February 15, 2009, 09:42:20 AM »

357 mag in a lever action is hard to beat as an all-rounder. Ammo everywhere, easy to shoot, doesn't have the assult rifle look and power enough for alot of different situations. DP

Empty Quiver · « **Reply #12 on:** February 15, 2009, 02:03:28 PM »

My CCW rig under most scenarios, and carry all 5 mags. If anarchy is the rule of the day the AR will be exercised, that is the reason for its being.
It can be a long time from when things are OK and when they are normal. In that time frame carrying the long gun will only invite citations, and admonitions from the authorities. If on the other hand, there are no authorities, the range and capacity of an assault style weapon could be indispensable.

Singleshotsam · « **Reply #13 on:** February 15, 2009, 04:10:57 PM »

Lets stop and really think about surviving living w/o power, communitcation, food as we know it. How is one to kill say, a squirrel, rabbit or smaller game bird with a .223? Don't get me wrong, I am a HUGE fan of the AR15 platform. But every weapon has it's limitations. A 12ga. will gun down most anything you will ever need to kill, if you can get within say 75 yards w/ slugs, and 50 yards, buckshot and birdshot. Ammo is easily obtainable anywhere, from gas stations, hardware stores, wal-mart, friends family and nieghbors. Even if you have to aid local law enforcement, most every cop car in this nation has a 12ga. in it.

S.S. · « **Reply #14 on:** February 16, 2009, 04:28:04 PM »

some sort of .22 rimfire rifle would be the only real option in my opinion.
this is due to the volume of ammo that can be carried. Low report would not
draw too much attention. A .22 Stinger is a formidable self defence round also.

Empty Quiver · « **Reply #15 on:** February 17, 2009, 09:57:08 AM »

I honestly don't plan on being able to hunt for food, that takes a lot of time that will be used "surviving". I figure gas will not be readily available and a trip to the woods won't be a very good return on investment. Walking around with a sack of groceries re: game, will only invite attention from ne'r do wells. I have a stash of food set aside that is as easy to get to as any weapon I own, if that is not an option then I suppose I would just join in with the other looters, or wait my turn at the FEMA trailer.

The shotgun is fine, but you'll want a wheel barrow to cart the ammo around by the end of the week, assuming you can't stay put anywhere. I'm just afraid the hunting thing will peter out way too fast in a long term panic, to give it much creedence. If I do hunt it will be very early and in a pasture in an EOTWAWKI situation. Otherwise I'll make use of this fat belly of mine to get through for a while.

burntmuch · « **Reply #16 on:** February 17, 2009, 10:28:18 AM »

There is no perfect 1 gun. I just picked up a 12 guage tracker I barrel for my Handi rifle, More options , slugs birdshot buckshot. Its not the perfect choice though. the 357 lever is a real good option IMO dont got one though. But I do have a 17 inch 357 max barrel with ppep sights that will compliment the 12 guage barrel. Good thread, Lots to think about here. Im trying to do the AR 15 thing , Just cant seem to free up an extra $1000.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #17 on:** February 17, 2009, 11:28:01 AM »

Having lived in Southern CA. We had fire, riots and mud slides to contend with.
For a fire or Twister, I would try to throw as much as I could into the truck/ SUV to save.
As far as Ammo to take. Easy enough to run the AR and a 9mm Handgun. I say that as trying to drag as much stuff as i own I want to take with me light weight stuff. 200 rounds of 223 weight the same as 50 for the 308 and I can almost double the amount of 9 for 45 ACP. I also keep a few MRE's in a go bag. Enough for 7 days with ammo next to a case of water (and a few Diet Cokes if I do not have one by 2pm I get caffine withdrawls) And a couple of hundred $ in small bills just in case. I don't think the ATM will work for gas or other if I need them to head to friends outside of the problem area.
For a riot. I would look to store water and fire extingushers and hole up in the house. A safe room can be made if you fear people shooting into your house.
Bad thing to be leaving and turn the corner to find the riot there an headed to you. The good/ or bad thing about a riot is they do not last long. Super markets have about 3-5 days worth of food on the shelves. A riot will empty a store and will peter out as they look for food, water, and money. While a roit is going on there is not going to be deliveries of food, water, medication, or money into the area.
So I would stock up on enough water for a week and rotate the bottled water out so that you will always have fresh. and keep enough to last for a week for your family as well as dry or canned goods to eat for the same week. If you have any medicine you need I would also keep a weeks supply on hand as well. Same would go for a flood or other natural disaster. At my parents house in NC for Huricanes, we have placed Medicine, spare glasses for both of them, food, water, dog food propane, and charcoal at the barn 10 miles inland just in case they have to leave the house. All the camping supplies are there as well so they have tent heaters, stoves, cook ware and bedding not to mention Dad keeps his boats there when not in the water so they have the Cat boat as well for shelter and a generator if something were to happen to the barn. They too rotate the supplies from the barn into the house on a regular basis to keep everything fresh. They live about 3 hours from a Cost co and go once a month so they take either Dad's Truck or suburban and get stuff for about 3 weeks.

backstrap · « **Reply #18 on:** February 17, 2009, 01:56:22 PM »

About the 223 being to big for small game who needs to shoot just small game ?where i am from u have plenty of deer u shoot a deer it would last a few people for a few days,shoot rabbits in the head and for small game birds just pass them by.i will stick with the 223,for defense and servivel,u could kill a man or a animal with a 223 a lott further out than u could a 12ga slug

Singleshotsam · « **Reply #19 on:** February 25, 2009, 03:40:09 PM »

I've got a handi rifle in .223. I have a pardner 12ga bbl that can be fitted to it. I'm good in that dept...

Just need a lil more ammo... about 1000 more rounds of each will do nicely

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #20 on:** February 26, 2009, 02:45:02 AM »

when we say plenty of deer are we sure ? how many deer per sq mile vs. humans per sq mile ? I often have 20 plus in the yard but 100 of humans live with in a mile . birds may be in the diet if you can get them .

jammer308 · « **Reply #21 on:** March 01, 2009, 03:44:27 PM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on February 26, 2009, 02:45:02 AM

when we say plenty of deer are we sure ? how many deer per sq mile vs. humans per sq mile ? I often have 20 plus in the yard but 100 of humans live with in a mile . birds may be in the diet if you can get them .

Well I think about this too from time to time, and as a hunter, I can say that I spend waaaaaay more time "hunting" than actually killing game. Especially when chasing whitetails. In a survival situation I know that I would have to hunt as an opportunist and take whatever I could come across at a given time and place. Regardless of how many deer are ina given area or what the capacity is, when they they start getting shot at they will get moving, which will make it even harder to hunt them. So how many are there is really irrelevent here. IMHO anyway....

Shotguns are great and have their place. I definately wouldn't rule that one out. But, I would be concerned about bringing attention to myself when shooting at food and the good ol .22 is king here. In addition, I can carry a lot of ammo for pennies on the dollar to the bigger guns that might not get a chance to shoot at deer when squirrels, rabbits, possums, birds, raccoons, etc... are much more likely to be seen. So I'd have to say a handgun in .22 lr would be most welcome on any outing with me. For my rifle I would choose either an easy to carry mini 14 in .223, or a saiga in .308. Both of those ammo choices are excellent, and the 2 guns I mentioned are utterly reliable even when neglected, as they very likely would be in a SHTF scenario.

One more option to seriously consider is a good pellet gun. You can carry a lot of ammo even compared to a .22 lr, it's cheap as can be and you don't need to keep your powder dry. Well just some thoughts I have anyway...

Singleshotsam · « **Reply #22 on:** March 03, 2009, 04:43:13 PM »

What I was personally considering was the fact that where I am geographically, the longest shot i'll likely get is 100 yards. We have deer, turkey, ducks, geese, rabbits, squirrels, dove, and some quail. Most of the game around here can most effectivly be harvested w/ a shotgun, especially duck/goose/quail/dove...

Now if I were in kansas, OK, or TX where I have a LONG shot to harvest game, my most likely choice would be a .243 or .308. Something accurate and deadly at long ranges.

Freezer · « **Reply #23 on:** March 10, 2009, 01:24:43 PM »

I live in the middle of city sprawl in the SF Bay. Forget getting out of town it ain't gona happen. Our biggest threat is a quake. Living not to far from the getto I feel things could get a little funky. My plan is to hunker down. I have plenty of food and water. I'll bring a couple good neighbors in and consolidate our resources. Hunting is a poor way to gather food traping is a lot more effecent. A good BB gun will harvest squirrls birds and small rodents while a 22 with CB longs wil drop a coon, cat or oposium. With a couple look outs in the windows any lever gun would work fine with a shotgun back up. By the time the first shot goes off the rest of the house will be alerted and who ever started this trouble had better be gone. The most valuable commodity will be water. I have a stash but also have two stil in the shed. I'll make my own.
In short a .22 and a shotgun would be my choices after that it doesn't mater.

teamnelson · « **Reply #24 on:** March 10, 2009, 02:40:27 PM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on February 13, 2009, 04:37:15 AM

there are many other items we would need to carry so we may only carry one weapon and a small amount of ammo .

Grab & go? +1 for a .22 revolver.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #25 on:** March 10, 2009, 03:11:41 PM »

An open sighted Remington 870 12 gage shotgun, loaded for any game that can be found in North America. I love hearing about how people are going to hunt for their food in a survival situation. There are like 350 to 400 million people living within the US. How many deer are there? Anyone care to estimate? the deer will be all but extinct in a few weeks then the small game, then the rats, mice and other small vermin. After that there will be only one source of meat here. When and if a great fall of humanity comes and these survival scenarios play out there will be starvation, and cannibalism rampent in the world. The only "good" survival scenario that could play out would be a viralent disease killing off a major portion of mankind. The best defence against a large survival situation would be a large stockpile of food and a way to defend it against the preditors that will be trying to take it from you. If you survive the first 6 months the population will have gotten down to a managable amount and the animals will start to rebound.

backstrap · « **Reply #26 on:** March 10, 2009, 03:51:44 PM »

Well where i live there a lotts of deer,and farmers cattle i dont think there going to be out worring about there cattle if the SHTF comes around. and i dont see all the millions of people in this country comeing all right here where i live, and not every city folk knows how to shoot and use a gun.let alone hunt a deer if they did some how figure out how to fire a rifle.and there a lotts of farm ponds around here that have nice sized fish in them so your not just going to be hunting deer and small game all the time. i will sill take my 223

teamnelson · « **Reply #27 on:** March 10, 2009, 04:44:09 PM »

Quote from: billy_56081 on March 10, 2009, 03:11:41 PM

An open sighted Remington 870 12 gage shotgun, loaded for any game that can be found in North America. I love hearing about how people are going to hunt for their food in a survival situation. There are like 350 to 400 million people living within the US. How many deer are there? Anyone care to estimate? the deer will be all but extinct in a few weeks then the small game, then the rats, mice and other small vermin. After that there will be only one source of meat here.

Estimated 30 million deer (all varieties) in the US. I'm not certain which is harder, killing a deer with a .22 or eating a rat that's been hit by a 12 ga. I can carry way more .22 though in a grab and go. A .22 is also good for kneecapping someone else when you're running from the cannibals.

no guns here · « **Reply #28 on:** March 11, 2009, 01:00:45 AM »

I agree with Billy... But I won't be caught with only one. Rabbits and squirrels don't get torn up too bad with a 12 ga. They are still edible. Deer drop to slugs quite easily. With slugs and scopes you can realistically reach to 150 yds. An 870 with extra barrels would be a good gun for this though. Thanks

And the idea will be to lay low and not be seen for the first 6 - 9 months and definitely until the first winter is over. IF you are in the country and still alive and kickin' THEN it will get easier. The first 6 weeks will be hard. City folks will still have fuel to come to the country trying to score food and supplies. After that, fuel and transportation will be scarce so you should have less possibility for "visitors". After the first winter, there will be less folks and the ones that are left will be weaker and less prone to travel.

I think the thing to do is to be able make your place look deserted but to still be there. Rabbits, pigs and chickens and goats in an old barn out of sight. No fire or smoke in the day. No electric lights ever. First thing to do is get rid of all lights that could even remotely possibly be seen from outside. Lights draw attention. Never walk on roads. Don't be seen. You need a cookstove indoors. Not a fire place, too much smoke and possible light emission. Don't hunt for food unless absolutely necessary. It's much quieter and less obtrusive to butcher a pig, rabbit or chicken than to shoot a deer. Takes less energy too and is less "risky". This is a time that you DON'T want to be seen, get hurt, get snakebit, get a bad cut or anything like that. Disease and infection control will quickly revert to pre-1900 conditions. If you have a well, then you need a solar pump or an old fashioned hand pump. If you don't have a well. Have one drilled now. Don't forget spare pump parts. We'll have to relearn some of the lessons that our forefathers on the frontier knew. Keep a weapon on you or within a hands reach at all times. Keep your women folk indoors and out of sight if possible. Folks will revert to stealing women and girls to sell or just to rape and kill. They will kill you for your food or to get your women to sell or trade for food/drugs/whatever. Strangers are dangerous until proven friendly and safe. If it feels "unsafe" or "just not right" (remember at this time we are talking about fairly general anarchy) then you will have to SSS. Because they will only do the first S.
Anything you can grow indoors as opposed to in a garden will be a bonus. If you make it the first year, I think then it will be okay to move your livestock outside and to start growing real amounts of food in a garden.

I just realized that this got WAY off topic. Sorry.

ngh

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #29 on:** March 11, 2009, 05:02:50 AM »

not really , the choice has to be supported .