Author Topic: Vaquero Base Pin Backs Out After 3 or 4 Shots (Read 2068 times)

Bart Solo · « **on:** February 15, 2009, 12:26:59 PM »

I need a little advice. I took one of my brand new 45 Colt SS Vaqueros to the range today and shot 225 Federal Semi-Wadcutters through it. The first couple of round were great, but the third round was off the paper. The fourth round misfired. I looked at the gun and discovered the base pin had pulled out. I am going to call Ruger in the AM but wonder what could be wrong.

BlkHawk73 · « **Reply #1 on:** February 15, 2009, 12:31:45 PM »

Could be that it wasn't seated properly and all the way into posistion. Forget calling Ruger (people always jump too far too soon). Just buy a Belt Mt. base pin, maybe even a locking one and be done with it.

timothy · « **Reply #2 on:** February 15, 2009, 12:35:59 PM »

Check to make sure the pin release isnt installed backwards. You can also take it apart and strech the spring by hand and reassemble. I fixed a 44sbh that way. Good luck

Bart Solo · « **Reply #3 on:** February 15, 2009, 01:08:27 PM »

I am new to revolvers. I take from the comments so far and the website at Belt Mt. a Ruger base pin pulling out isn't unusual.

Well if the manual shows how the release pin is supposed to be installed, it is installed correctly.

BlkHawk73 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 15, 2009, 01:57:34 PM »

It could appear to be installed correctly but if it's not fully seated and the base pin isn't "clicked" in to lock the base pin it'll move out easily. It can still move under recoil but usually only occures with heavier recoiling loads.
id try it at the range agin before making any desperate moves. Just check the base pin after each shot. have played the Ruger single action game for a long time and never had any pins make any unwanted moves.

44 Man · « **Reply #5 on:** February 19, 2009, 04:21:14 AM »

If that is a new gun or no one has ever taken it apart completely, you may have polishing compound from the factory under the cross pin. That would prevent it from seating all the way and cause your problem. While not real common in new guns, it does happen often enough that you might check. You wouldn't believe how much grit was left in from the factory on the last couple of new guns I bought. 44 Man

Tom C. · « **Reply #6 on:** February 19, 2009, 04:53:30 AM »

There are two mods I routinely do to my Ruger single action revos: replace the base pin with a Belt Mtn base pin, and replace the base pin lock spring with a Wolff spring. Even if you decide to keep the original pin, replace the spring. It will go a long way to preventing the base pin from being released by the lock.

Bart Solo · « **Reply #7 on:** February 19, 2009, 07:57:56 AM »

Quote from: 44 Man on February 19, 2009, 04:21:14 AM

If that is a new gun or no one has ever taken it apart completely, you may have polishing compound from the factory under the cross pin. That would prevent it from seating all the way and cause your problem. While not real common in new guns, it does happen often enough that you might check. You wouldn't believe how much grit was left in from the factory on the last couple of new guns I bought. 44 Man

It is a brand new revolver. I think it is locked now. I am going to shoot it again this weekend to make sure.

Bart Solo · « **Reply #8 on:** February 19, 2009, 09:35:17 AM »

Quote from: Tom C. on February 19, 2009, 04:53:30 AM

There are two mods I routinely do to my Ruger single action revos: replace the base pin with a Belt Mtn base pin, and replace the base pin lock spring with a Wolff spring. Even if you decide to keep the original pin, replace the spring. It will go a long way to preventing the base pin from being released by the lock.

Since this happened to me this last weekend several people have suggested changing the base pin and the base pin lock spring. Are there other advantages than stopping the base pin from backing out? In notice the Belt Mtn base pin is slightly thicker than the stock base pin. Does that facilitate smoother function or greater accuracy?

Hank08 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 22, 2009, 06:37:53 AM »

Sometime the slot in your cylinder pin is too shallow and you need to deepen it slightly so the cylinder pin retainer can get a better bite to hold it in place also a stronger spring is available from Brownell's. Either one or both these things will cure your problem. the Belt Mt. pins are slightly larger giving a slightly tighter fit, does it make it more accurate, maybe.
Problem is very few shooters have the experience or ability to take advantage of the accuracy of the original pin so it's hard to tell. Brownells has them also.
H08

Bart Solo · « **Reply #10 on:** February 22, 2009, 01:54:31 PM »

Took the twin Vaquero to the range today. Same problem as the first. Very frustrating. What kind of tools do I need to pull the base pin latch spring? I realize I need a little screwdriver. I just don't know what I need on the other side.

I have been shooting Federal loads. I didn't see +p on them. I wonder if I will have the same results with cowboy loads.

Hank08 · « **Reply #11 on:** February 22, 2009, 02:35:53 PM »

You'll need a regular screwdriver for one side and another about the same size but with the middle ground out to fit over the end of the screw your unscrewing with the regular screwdriver. You need to put it in a vice or have someone else hold it while you use the screwdrivers. Pay attention to which way it goes and which side the spring is on. If you have a drill press you can put the cylinder pin in it and while it's spinning use a small file to deepen the groove.
H08

Bart Solo · « **Reply #12 on:** February 23, 2009, 03:49:18 AM »

Well, I have exchanged emails with the folks at Belt Mountain. Keyle suggested "first I would check to make sure the groove in the base pin is deep enough for the latch to go in all the way.This is easy on the new vaquero. Remove the pin and observe how far the latch can go into the
frame, then reinstall the pin and see if the latch goes in as far."

Guess what, the latch doesn't go in as far.

Bart Solo · « **Reply #13 on:** February 23, 2009, 05:12:38 AM »

I just got off the phone with Ruger. The nice lady didn't let me finish my story before she said "I am authorized to send you new latch springs. If that doesn't work then we will replace the base pins, but the springs are where we start." She is sending two of them out today. Now I have to figure out what that special tool is called and where to buy one.

44 Man · « **Reply #14 on:** February 25, 2009, 03:09:04 AM »

As soon as you get the springs, call her back and tell her it didn't work and get the pins coming. I'm sure you will find it is the pin that is your problem. Replacing the spring with one exactally like it is silly. Get the pins from Ruger and try them. If you are still having the problem, you can have someone knowledgable (or a gunsmith) deepen the groove in the old pins (since you will now have a spare pair). I remember having one Vaquero with the same problem, on that gun all I had to do is snap the pin in quickly and very firmly. Seems it needed the little extra bump to properly lock in. You could try tapping the end of the pin with a plastic mallet to make sure it is completely seated. If this all gets frustrating or tiring, just buy the Belt Mountain. No, no 'usable' accuracy improvement, probably some mechanical, theoretical improvement, but most of us will not be able to shoot well enough to notice. But it will solve your problems. 44 Man

Bart Solo · « **Reply #15 on:** February 25, 2009, 09:05:26 AM »

I had called Ruger early Monday and left a message. I called again later in the morning and got service rep who is sending me the springs. Today I got a return to the first message I left Monday. The lady said I would have to send the guns in for repair. Four to six weeks and I would have to pay the shipping. The shipping would be about the same as the Belt Mountain pins delivered.

Sunday I emailed Belt Mountain. The tech from Belt Mountain told me how to diagnose my problem. He thinks the grooves on the base pins are too shallow. Like one turn on the lathe too shallow. Otherwise the latch pin would go in the same distance with or without the base pin installed. As it is they only go in so far with the base pin installed.

What I find interesting is that they engage enough that I can't simply pull the base pin without pushing the latch pin. But they aren't far enough in to be fully engaged. The only time they back out is when the gun is fired or when the latch pin is pushed. Exact same problem on two brand new revolvers manufactured within 5 minutes of each other.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #16 on:** February 26, 2009, 12:57:00 AM »

I dont have a ruger in the safe that doesnt have a belt mountain locking base pin.

Bart Solo · « **Reply #17 on:** February 26, 2009, 05:38:43 PM »

I ordered a couple of base pins from Belt Mountain. It turns out it is less expensive to buy and ship base pins from them than it is to ship guns to Ruger for warranty repairs. More importantly I am not going to be with out the revolvers for 4 to 6 weeks.

Anyway from all the testimonials here I don't see how I can go wrong with Belt Mountain.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #18 on:** February 27, 2009, 12:52:15 AM »

you cant. there a must have for a heavy kicking ruger in my opinion. If you buy the ones that need fitting they will even take some of the slop out of a ruger. Plus Kelly is a friend and is about as good of a man as there is.

Quote from: Bart Solo on February 26, 2009, 05:38:43 PM

I ordered a couple of base pins from Belt Mountain. It turns out it is less expensive to buy and ship base pins from them than it is to ship guns to Ruger for warranty repairs. More importantly I am not going to be with out the revolvers for 4 to 6 weeks.

Anyway from all the testimonials here I don't see how I can go wrong with Belt Mountain.

Bart Solo · « **Reply #19 on:** March 03, 2009, 03:20:22 PM »

I installed my new base pins in my vaqueros today. I sure hope they work, but I don't doubt they will. The latch pins go in all the way for the first time.

sbhg · « **Reply #20 on:** March 11, 2009, 02:49:40 PM »

did you buy the #5 style like this one?

Bart Solo · « **Reply #21 on:** March 12, 2009, 06:16:10 AM »

Just the standard locking style. The #5 is pretty.

Bart Solo · « **Reply #22 on:** March 26, 2009, 07:07:23 AM »

I sometimes wonder whether problems are ever fixed. I suspect you do too. Well, in this case I took the guns with the new pins installed to the range. They worked like champs. Problem solved.

ice · « **Reply #23 on:** May 19, 2009, 06:04:16 AM »

Get a Belt Mtn base pin.

Bart Solo · « **Reply #24 on:** May 20, 2009, 02:38:56 AM »

I did. I haven't had a problem since. Got into a debate with a guy who said the best solution was to grind down the base pin latch body.

44 Man · « **Reply #25 on:** May 21, 2009, 03:07:45 AM »

Glad you got your problem fixed. Sometimes this is frustrating. If I were you I'd send the two Ruger pins in with an explaination that the locking groves are cut to shallow and ask them to replace them. Since you have the belt mountain, you won't have the guns tied up. You can tell them that your problem was solved when you put in the belt mountain with a deeper cut. If they send (and I'm sure they will) the replacements, you can keep them in case you ever trade one of the Ruger's off, you can put the Ruger pin in and keep your Belt Mtn for the next gun. 44 Man

Tom C. · « **Reply #26 on:** May 21, 2009, 04:13:22 AM »

For me, I feel the Belt Mtn. base pin is the answer. In addition to locking in place better, it removes most of the slop that makes assembly easier for the manufacturer. By tightening things up, you may improve accuracy at the same time, but if the chambers aren't properly aligned, taking that slop out of the system can actually degrade accuracy. When I have done it to my guns, I haven't seen any degradation to accuracy. It has always helped. I have only done this to 16 guns, so that may not be a big enough sample size to draw definative conclusions.

kelbro · « **Reply #27 on:** May 21, 2009, 06:11:40 PM »

I have seen this happen on several Ruger 44Mags, my Hunter SBH included. The common thread was that the pin would pop loose only when the shooter was resting the butt of the gun on a solid or semi-solid rest. In every case (that I have observed), the problem went away when the shooter either shot without a rest or used his wrists or forearms on the rest so the recoil no longer had a hard surface to react with.

Travis Morgan · « **Reply #28 on:** June 20, 2009, 04:12:34 PM »

Quote from: timothy on February 15, 2009, 12:35:59 PM

Check to make sure the pin release isnt installed backwards. You can also take it apart and strech the spring by hand and reassemble. I fixed a 44sbh that way. Good luck

Been there, done that, felt stupid.