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Offline cwlongshot

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Welding a bolt handle
« on: February 15, 2009, 12:45:02 PM »
Hi guys,
 I have a quick question.
 I have a 1909 Mauser that I am sporterizing. I am up to the bolt, I have it fitted and ground reliefs for welding. I have a good machine and experience welding.

 My question is heat, I know I don't want the lugs to get too hot. What should I use or do to "suck" the heat away while I am welding. I had a piece of aluminium that I could bolt to the bolt that would have worked. (I think so anyhow) but I do not know where it has gone...

Is quenching in water or with a wet towel a good or bad idea...

Thank you

CW
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Offline trotterlg

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Re: Welding a bolt handle
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2009, 01:14:33 PM »
Just wrap a wet rag around the bolt head held on with rubber bands and go to it.  Larry
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Offline ihuntbucks

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Re: Welding a bolt handle
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2009, 04:58:50 PM »
If I was welding the bolt handle on,I would submerse it all in water except fpr the part to be welded and tig weld.......Rick
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Offline Skunk

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Re: Welding a bolt handle
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2009, 04:16:39 AM »
If seeing how a pro silver solders a Rem bolt handle into place helps, then watch how Stan Ware, owner of SGR Custom Rifles does it. Stan is known as top professional when it comes to smithing. He has an entire series of these videos on his website that pertain to building an accurate rifle.

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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: Welding a bolt handle
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2009, 07:54:20 AM »
Thank you very much for all the tips!!

 I roughed in the basic shape and filed the surfaces dead flat. The chamfered the edges for the welds.




I had a friend do the welding, as I am no professional and he is.  ::) (Yea I chickened out at the last moment.) We welded it with a MIG and stainless steel wire. I wrapped the bolt in a wet towel and that worked perfectly. We tacked the top and welded the sides. Waited and welded the top. Waited again then finished by welding the bottom. It only just got to straw color and that was limited to the handle area.





I spent about an hour with a file and a dremel tool and got to this.






 A couple more minutes with a file and she dropped right in the action!




I threw on the scope and it even cleared!!!




CW
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Offline AtlLaw

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Re: Welding a bolt handle
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2009, 08:31:41 AM »
 :o  Great Job!   ;D  I love those handles!
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Offline ihuntbucks

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Re: Welding a bolt handle
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2009, 09:58:33 PM »
Nice job cw.You must have some tool and die maker in your blood ;D....Rick
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Offline wtroger

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Re: Welding a bolt handle
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2009, 09:57:07 AM »
Good looking job. I use heat control paste avaliable from Brownells Midway etc etc. And an aluminum heat sink that screws in where the bolt shroud goes. And then I mig weld the bolts some are replacement others are turn downs but when I turn one down I cut it on the top side most of the way through then bend it and fill it with weld. the makes the bolt a little longer. I do a lot of Mausers.
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: Welding a bolt handle
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2009, 11:56:38 AM »
 I was going to go the heat paste route. Its also available at plumbing supply stores for WAY CHEAPWER than Brownels too!! But my friend assured me the wet towel would be fine. He was right as I put my finger on the lugs wrapped in that towel and it was just warm.

 Thank you all for the great Tips and advice!!  In the end I did "chicken out" on the welding, but think the file work and fitting came out great!! This AM, I did a little touch up work with a abrasive pad on the dremel to clean up some of the arrant file marks left.

I should have the stock and trigger in a couple days, then I need to decide on the caliber and next month I'll likely get the barrel...

CW
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Offline Clemson

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Re: Welding a bolt handle
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2009, 05:15:54 AM »
The locking lugs are very rarely a problem.  The area you really have to watch is the cocking cam.  You should use a heat sink screwed into the rear of the bolt to help pull heat away from the cam area.  Heat paste packed into that cocking cam area doesn't hurt either.  TIG welding with nickle steel rods will give you a joint that you can blue.  Stainless wire will not allow that.

Clemson
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Offline Rangr44

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Re: Welding a bolt handle
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2009, 08:32:27 AM »
[The locking lugs are very rarely a problem.  The area you really have to watch is the cocking cam.  You should use a heat sink screwed into the rear of the bolt to help pull heat away from the cam area. ] - +2

Good Luck - But you're only going to find out a while from now, if/when it gets hard to cock/open due to the softened cam surface galling.

The bigger the heat sink, the better.

Also, IF the bolt handle cracks, or departs, during vigorous manipulation a few years from now - the next time, grind the chamfers at least 3x deeper into the dead flat area, on both the stub and the handle, for deeper weld penetration.

You don't wanna know how I found these things out, in the 70's.

.
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Offline gunnut69

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Re: Welding a bolt handle
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2009, 04:54:44 PM »
I much prefer a wire feed MIG to the tig, less heat,, I use a threaded copper heat sink in the striker recess and do not use heat control paste..  Haven't lost a cocking cam yet but they are fairly easy to reharden.. Just remember if in doubt anneal then harden as if you reharden and they haven't been sufficiently annealed they can crack real easy!! Use the chromoly wire that body shops prefer and it'll blue just fine(I prefer the polished look myself).. Love the look of the spoon handle but like a bit more ball on the bottom to ease the wear and tear on the hand..
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Offline bilmac

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Re: Welding a bolt handle
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2009, 06:21:26 PM »
Years ago my Uncle was showing me a Springfield bolt he had done. It looked real nice, but he had ground it down until it looked pretty thin. So while I was admiring his work, I held the bolt in one hand and twisted the handle with the other like opening the bolt. It Broke!!! Kind of embarrassing, but I guess it was better than having it fall apart on a mountain somewhere.
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: Welding a bolt handle
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2009, 01:38:21 AM »
Quote from: bilmac on February 27, 2009, 06:21:26 PM
Years ago my Uncle was showing me a Springfield bolt he had done. It looked real nice, but he had ground it down until it looked pretty thin. So while I was admiring his work, I held the bolt in one hand and twisted the handle with the other like opening the bolt. It Broke!!! Kind of embarrassing, but I guess it was better than having it fall apart on a mountain somewhere.

 The spoon on my Whelen is mighty thin. But the smith said he would redo it if it ever broke. He pulled, twisted and hammered on it with a lead pipe before I took possession back in 1987 and its still fine today. Just "looks" thin to me...
 
I am somewhat concerned about the cocking cam. How do you go about re-hardening that? Its opens with a bit more force than my wife likes. All pieces are nice and smooth, so I do not see roughness causing the resistance.

CW
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