Author Topic: Let's see some targets... (Read 3612 times)

Artilleryman · « **Reply #30 on:** February 18, 2009, 08:18:04 AM »

Quote from: dan610324 on February 18, 2009, 08:08:34 AM

what was the approximate range to the target ??

At least 100 yards.

Kansas Boomer · « **Reply #31 on:** February 18, 2009, 09:04:21 AM »

Pictures from last fall. One inch bore cannon at about 40 yards. First 5 gallon water jug, then old cow scull. Boomer

Victor3 · « **Reply #32 on:** February 19, 2009, 01:37:23 AM »

Sorry DD... I edited my post.

dan610324 · « **Reply #33 on:** February 19, 2009, 10:34:14 AM »

Quote from: Artilleryman on February 18, 2009, 08:18:04 AM

Quote from: dan610324 on February 18, 2009, 08:08:34 AM
what was the approximate range to the target ??

At least 100 yards.

approximately what loads do you use compared to a full period service load ??

in the mid 1700 they said a 32 pdr would penetrate approximately 1 meter solid oak

Artilleryman · « **Reply #34 on:** February 20, 2009, 05:13:59 PM »

Quote from: dan610324 on February 19, 2009, 10:34:14 AM

Quote from: Artilleryman on February 18, 2009, 08:18:04 AM
Quote from: dan610324 on February 18, 2009, 08:08:34 AM
what was the approximate range to the target ??

At least 100 yards.

approximately what loads do you use compared to a full period service load ??

in the mid 1700 they said a 32 pdr would penetrate approximately 1 meter solid oak

The maximum charge for a 24 pdr howitzer is 2lbs. Matt probably used less than this to fire the bar shot. I will ask him the next time I see him. He would have used 2lbs of powder behind an inert shell, approx. weight 17lbs, which is good enough to push a shell just under 300 yards at zero degrees of elevation.

A Civil War period 32pdr seacoast gun uses 6lb, 8lb, and 10.67lb charges behind a 32 lb solid shot. This is going to be much more destructive than the light weight 24 pdr howitzer which is meant to lob shells. The muzzle velocity for an 8 lb charge is 1640 fps. I have to look up penetration tables in order to make any other comparsions.

Artilleryman · « **Reply #35 on:** February 20, 2009, 05:21:02 PM »

Speaking of penetration, the following photo shows a 10pdr solid shot going through five 55 gallon water filled barrels. The last we saw of the projectile it was going over a rise about 400-500 yards away after it had bounced once. A service load was used.

dan610324 · « **Reply #36 on:** February 20, 2009, 11:12:35 PM »

5 barrels ??

thats almost 3 yards water and 10 steel sheets , WOW
still disappearing 500 yards away .
thats incredible as water have an good stopping power against bullets .

Artilleryman · « **Reply #37 on:** February 21, 2009, 06:49:34 AM »

They were plastic barrels, but still pretty impressive.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #38 on:** February 21, 2009, 07:48:08 AM »

After woodchucks, this is a much different class of "pink haze".

Quote from: Artilleryman on February 20, 2009, 05:21:02 PM

Speaking of penetration, the following photo shows a 10pdr solid shot going through five 55 gallon water filled barrels. The last we saw of the projectile it was going over a rise about 400-500 yards away after it had bounced once. A service load was used.

Artilleryman · « **Reply #39 on:** February 21, 2009, 08:30:26 AM »

They put red dye in the water of one or two of the barrels, and layer the top of the open barrels with tennis balls. About a second or two after the water came down the tennis balls started to rain down.

BoomLover · « **Reply #40 on:** February 21, 2009, 04:24:22 PM »

Artileryman, I must have missed this, but, what is the "service load" for the 10pdr? Thanks, BoomLover

Artilleryman · « **Reply #41 on:** February 21, 2009, 05:07:31 PM »

The service load for a 10 pdr was 1 lb of powder and a 10 lb projectile. This applied for the Ordnance Rifle and 10 pdr Parrott.

Cannoneer · « **Reply #42 on:** February 21, 2009, 05:59:12 PM »

Quote from: Artilleryman on February 18, 2009, 07:12:52 AM

In the other thread I was referring to 12pdr bar shot from an Iron Napoleon. This is 24 pdr bar shot fired with a reduced load since it was being fired from a howitzer. Both behaved in about the same way. I would imagine that a full service load from a gun would be even more destructive. The bar shot in the following photo would have knocked the wall over if it hadn't been braced so well on that side. Remember these are with reduced powder charges.

Artilleryman,

When the bar shot was fired from the 24-pdr field howitzer M 1841, was the shot covered or wrapped in something so as not to score/scrape the bore of the gun?

Artilleryman · « **Reply #43 on:** February 22, 2009, 03:53:01 AM »

It was used without any covering. The ends are made of zinc instead of iron, and of course the bar doesn't touch anything. We normally shoot zinc projectiles anyway. When we shot chain shot we used aluminum balls connected with chain. The chain was wrapped in two halfs of a wood sleeve, and everything was taped together with masking tape to protect the bore from the chain.

Cannoneer · « **Reply #44 on:** February 23, 2009, 02:15:32 AM »

Thanks Norm, I didn't think you'd be sending iron with edges like that down the bore of an heirloom like that, but I thought you might have "patched" an iron projo with something.

It doesn't take much of an imagination to guess how much more severe the damage to that bulwark would have been if the bar shot had been made of iron, and the halfs of of the ball had more resembled full hemispheres.

Artilleryman · « **Reply #45 on:** February 23, 2009, 02:28:50 PM »

BoomJ, Imagine using 6 to 8 lbs of powder in a gun instead of less than 2 lbs in a howitzer.

p51 · « **Reply #46 on:** February 23, 2009, 04:29:31 PM »

Darn, I don't have any impact shots yet because I still haven't lit up the my Coehorn yet. The only impact photos I have are from 105MM HE rounds into conex boxes at the Ft Lewis impact range (I swear I have a photo around here somewhere taken of an air burst directly over the box that I adjusted on target with only one spotter round) as well as the after effects of me using a M-203 High-Explosive Dual Purpose Round on a building during a live-fire exercise I weaseled my way into once. But modern just don't count here. $:-\$
Crying shame Max Caliber probably doesn't have photos of the target shooting he used to do with his M1841. The man used to win most of the competition shoots he'd put the gun into and was amazingly accurate with it! I don't recall him firing it into any "cool" targets like those show, though, as most of those shoots were on 100 yard rifle ranges. Used to play merry heck with the backstops!

Cannoneer · « **Reply #47 on:** February 23, 2009, 07:51:51 PM »

Quote from: Artilleryman on February 23, 2009, 02:28:50 PM

BoomJ, Imagine using 6 to 8 lbs of powder in a gun instead of less than 2 lbs in a howitzer.

Norm, did you or anyone else fire solid shot from a smoothbore or a bolt from a rifle at these bulwarks, to see what kind of damage they would cause?

Cannoneer · « **Reply #48 on:** February 23, 2009, 08:04:43 PM »

Quote

Crying shame Max Caliber probably doesn't have photos of the target shooting he used to do with his M1841. The man used to win most of the competition shoots he'd put the gun into and was amazingly accurate with it! I don't recall him firing it into any "cool" targets like those show, though, as most of those shoots were on 100 yard rifle ranges. Used to play merry heck with the backstops!

There are a few different U.S. artillery pieces that have the designation M 1841; what did you have, Max?

Artilleryman · « **Reply #49 on:** February 24, 2009, 04:03:31 AM »

Quote from: Boom J on February 23, 2009, 07:51:51 PM

Quote from: Artilleryman on February 23, 2009, 02:28:50 PM
BoomJ, Imagine using 6 to 8 lbs of powder in a gun instead of less than 2 lbs in a howitzer.

Norm, did you or anyone else fire solid shot from a smoothbore or a bolt from a rifle at these bulwarks, to see what kind of damage they would cause?

We were filming for the Artillery Games in Canada, and only had the 24 pdr howitzer and the 10 pdr Parrott. We only got to fire at what the producer and director wanted us to fire at. A lot of action followed by a lot of waiting. Below are some photos showing damage to the wood walls.

The Parrott round breezed through without doing a lot of damage. The wood fibers closed back into the hole to the point that you could not stick a pencil through it.

The larger and slower 24 pdr caused more damage. In fact reduced charges were used as "shattering charges".

Cannoneer · « **Reply #50 on:** February 25, 2009, 04:12:36 AM »

Quote

The Parrott round breezed through without doing a lot of damage. The wood fibers closed back into the hole to the point that you could not stick a pencil through it.

Quote

The larger and slower 24 pdr caused more damage. In fact reduced charges were used as "shattering charges".

Thanks Norm,

So your practical experience with projectiles fired into a wood structure is basically in harmony with what historical writers describing sea battles of the eighteenth and nineteenth century have had to say about the damage inflicted on wooden ships by carronades as compared to that caused by the higher powered guns, namely, that in close distance combat, (which at this time in history, the majority of these battles supposedly were) the large bore, lower velocity carronades were a lot more devastating to the ship's woodwork and the crew's health and morale than the cannons often were.

Artilleryman · « **Reply #51 on:** February 25, 2009, 04:28:14 AM »

I think so. It would have been nice to have had those walls made out of oak. I think the splintering effect would have been much greater.

Cannoneer · « **Reply #52 on:** February 27, 2009, 07:06:12 AM »

Quote from: tapwater on February 17, 2009, 02:29:11 PM

Yes, the shows are still there at the Kankakee fairgrounds. I only go if I need reloading supplies. I haven't seen BP there in a couple years, but Pyrodex is usually priced fairly.
I do use full cans of concrete, but the recoil gets excessive on the carriage that I have now. The last carriage was destroyed by a full can and 4 oz. of ffg. The soft pine split and let the tube flying end over end. Not safe. Half cans with 4 oz. are fine and full cans with 2-3 oz. are OK. I like to use the steel cans that mushrooms or olives come packed in. Once filled with cement, I cut the flange off the can with an air cut-off tool.
The tube has been proofed to my satisfaction with a heavy projo and a very hefty load. No way do I trust a welded breech plug. My tube is one piece, bored.
Those slap hammers are all that I can find. I'd really like a spring cocked lock. I've made a couple, but they were ugly as sin. Guess I'll stay with fuse until I find something better.
If you went to Kankakee down I57, you were within 1 1/2 mile of me!

Hey Tap,

I've been meaning to mention this ever since I saw Blaster's reference to the Kankakee Fairgrounds Show; I looked at your profile and I saw that we're practically only a hop, skip and a jump away from each other, (I'm in NE Il near Chi) I think we may have to arrange for a pow-wow sometime in the future.

armorer77 · « **Reply #53 on:** March 01, 2009, 05:08:58 AM »

Here is the gun

1 lb. lead ball at 25 yds. armored car window 1.75" thick plexiglass , laminate .

The penatratations are AR & AK Ball ammo . Armorer77

Victor3 · « **Reply #54 on:** March 01, 2009, 06:00:30 PM »

Having done some testing myself, be careful shooting at bullet-resistant material.

Acrylic (plexiglass) isn't as bad with ricochets because it's hard and brittle. The polycarbonate stuff (like Lexguard) acts somewhat like hard rubber when hit and can send lower velocity bullets back at you if the material is not angled away from your firing position.

armorer77 · « **Reply #55 on:** March 02, 2009, 10:49:23 AM »

We were behind cover . I found the ball about 3 feet in front of the target . Armorer77

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #56 on:** March 02, 2009, 01:56:40 PM »

Quote from: armorer77 on March 02, 2009, 10:49:23 AM

We were behind cover . I found the ball about 3 feet in front of the target . Armorer77

Good move - being behind cover. I can show you scars (from back in H.S.) from shooting too close.