Author Topic: Rifled or smoothbore? (Read 3420 times)

buzz253 · « **on:** February 17, 2009, 08:16:16 AM »

I am not a shotgun person. I prefer rifles and revolvers, but in case of SHTF or EOTWAWKI I know that a shotgun would be a very important piece of equipment. If I could only hunker down with one, which should it be rifled or smoothbore?
Thanks, buzz

SM Outdoors · « **Reply #1 on:** February 17, 2009, 08:21:41 AM »

Depending on its intended purpose, I will assume protection.... Smooth bore will be just as good since you dong get rushed from 150yds away you will prbly be looking CQB and bird/buck shot for impact and assured hits. The only advantage to rifled is distance accuracy and that is found better with a rifle.

burntmuch · « **Reply #2 on:** February 17, 2009, 08:23:11 AM »

smoothbore, It would give you more options. I just picked up a 12 barrel for my handi, Figure I could use buckshot birdshot or the foster type slugs. & id wouldnt cost a fortune to stock up for

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #3 on:** February 17, 2009, 09:03:49 AM »

you might look at a turkey gun with rifle sights . Add a rifled tube and you are set . you can shoot any slug , buck shot and bird shot .

buzz253 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 17, 2009, 09:30:19 AM »

Well, I do have an SB-1 frame languishing in the sock drawer, so I could get both barrels and fit them up. That would give me shotshell, slugs and .44 in one neat package. Good idea and a good reason to buy more gun stuff.

Swampman · « **Reply #5 on:** February 17, 2009, 09:44:55 AM »

I'd rather have a 20 gauge NEF or H&R Pardner/Topper than a rifle. I'm going to get a 20 gauge barrel fitted to my .357 Handi Rifle.

Bart Solo · « **Reply #6 on:** February 17, 2009, 09:54:35 AM »

I am new in Cowboy Shooting. I haven't had any problem finding handguns or a rifle. On the other hand I have had had devil of a time finding a shotgun. Twelve gauge double barreled coach guns are all sold out and on back order. Apparently a lot of people have concluded that a double barrel shotgun is an important piece of household equipment right now.

buzz253 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 17, 2009, 03:30:55 PM »

Swampman - Yeah, I have decided to get, at least, a 20 ga. smoothbore for my SB-1. I may try to have an ultra slug barrel added at the same time. Still not sure about the slug barrel yet.

Ron - I hope you can find what you need. I would love to have a Stoeger coach gun in blue/nickel. I have been starting to develop an interest in CAS and need to check it out. Good luck and do well.

buzz

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #8 on:** February 17, 2009, 03:48:05 PM »

Smooth bore. It can do it all.
I have a bunch of scatter guns from side by sides to tricked out pumps guns and a few autos.
But with standard slugs you will be able to hit 18" targets at 100 yards and will be able to shoot buck to 60yards and bird shot to 40 yards depending on shot size. It would be a great forage or protection gun. But only of you use it and know where and how it shoots.

Oldshooter · « **Reply #9 on:** February 17, 2009, 03:54:19 PM »

"If I could only hunker down with one, which should it be rifled or smoothbore?"

No question for me. If I could only have one it would be the smoothbore.

bilmac · « **Reply #10 on:** February 17, 2009, 06:06:32 PM »

I disagree with the premis that a shotgun is all that necessary. Having a pattern that makes hits more likely only applies between what, 15 to 40 yards. Closer, and you have hardly any advantage over a rifle because the pattern hasn't opened up. Farther than 40 or 50 yards and even buckshot has iffy killing power. So you have a large clunky gun, often with limited magazine capacity, that uses heavy bulky ammo that has marginal energy. It's useful max range is 50 yards, it recoils much more than most rifles, usually has no or poor sights, I could probably go on if I sat and thought longer.

The advantages of a slug gun evades me even more, tell me again what a slug gun can do better than a rifle other than possibly breaking locks. I just don't understand the combat shotgun mentality.

Swampman · « **Reply #11 on:** February 17, 2009, 11:46:12 PM »

There is nothing lighter or handier than a single shot 20 gauge. Recoil is very minimal with bird shot. A slug will kill anything. The object isn't to play Rambo, it's to stay alive & unnoticed.

rocko · « **Reply #12 on:** February 18, 2009, 12:26:22 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on February 17, 2009, 11:46:12 PM

There is nothing lighter or handier than a single shot 20 gauge. Recoil is very minimal with bird shot. A slug will kill anything. The object isn't to play Rambo, it's to stay alive & unnoticed.

Wouldnt a regular old 22 do a better job? Especially on staying unnoticed? shotguns sure are louder.

Swampman · « **Reply #13 on:** February 18, 2009, 12:42:11 AM »

In the area where I live, getting a clear shot with a .22 is nearly impossible. The 20 gauge is better for big game IMO.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #14 on:** February 18, 2009, 01:32:51 AM »

Why not a 870 turkey gun or their new tatical 20 ga. ? with screw in tubes you can have a smooth bore and rifled also . i keep the extra tube in a pocket . I have had rifled bbls on winchesters , brownings , remingtons and savage . On remingtons have had a long and a short screw in rifled choke tube . one of the most accurate com-bos was the short tube in a rifle sighted bbl i had threaded to take rem chokes .
I have hunted some with a 20 ga. slug gun the last 2 seasons and really like the light gun and can't see any difference in killing deer with it or the 12 ga. other than it kicks less .

Swampman · « **Reply #15 on:** February 18, 2009, 04:45:00 AM »

The 870 is a great gun, and one of the very few repeaters I trust.

buzz253 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 18, 2009, 05:13:41 AM »

Just traded for a 20 ga. pump from a neighbor last night. I also got 5 boxes of dove shot for it. Swapped him an old .22 snubby and a 1/2 brick of lr for it.
This will be added to my bug-out collection along with my 30-06, 223, 357 mag, 44 mag, 40s&w and my 243. Still will probably get a 20 ga. smoothbore barrel for my SB-1 just in case. Now I guess I need to get busy reloading as soon as I can gather up components.

Oldshooter · « **Reply #17 on:** February 18, 2009, 05:23:12 AM »

Quote from: bilmac on February 17, 2009, 06:06:32 PM

I disagree with the premise that a shotgun is all that necessary. Having a pattern that makes hits more likely only applies between what, 15 to 40 yards. Closer, and you have hardly any advantage over a rifle because the pattern hasn't opened up. Farther than 40 or 50 yards and even buckshot has iffy killing power. So you have a large clunky gun, often with limited magazine capacity, that uses heavy bulky ammo that has marginal energy. It's useful max range is 50 yards, it recoils much more than most rifles, usually has no or poor sights, I could probably go on if I sat and thought longer.

The advantages of a slug gun evades me even more, tell me again what a slug gun can do better than a rifle other than possibly breaking locks. I just don't understand the combat shotgun mentality.

There is no doubt that a rifle is better at long distance than a shot gun, I fell you missed the point, and that is you can only have one. Your rifle is not gonna help you much with ducks or quail, and other fast moving small game, then you can shoot slugs out of the same gun to kill bear, deer, and badguys. Buck shot at close quarters is devastating and at distances out to 60 yards is hard to match other than a machine gun. Reloading is very easy and versatile also.
All that said it comes down to personal preference and mine is the smoothbore IF I can have only ONE shooting iron I would pick the shotgun if I could have two it would be the shotgun and an semi-auto .22 LR. I think my mentality is that of versatility

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #18 on:** February 18, 2009, 05:41:55 AM »

one other point in a survival setting you may be very hungry so much so you shake . you may be similar to a diabetic with low blood sugar from lack of good food or no food . you may be injured . you may face more than one target up close .
The first thing one needs to accept is we aren't all John Wayne or Rambo . The shotgun is the most forgiving weapon you can use . A funny thing has shown up in magazines and a few tv shows , they say the west was won with the rifle or some say the colt . there are many examples of both around today but not many of the shot guns because they were plain wore out and replaced over the years while the other 2 saw less use . do we see a pattern here ?

BBF · « **Reply #19 on:** February 18, 2009, 07:01:33 AM »

buzz:
How and who is going to pack that arsenal if you "bug-out" ??

buzz253 · « **Reply #20 on:** February 18, 2009, 09:11:03 AM »

Well, if it's a gotta go now situation I take the shotgun and 30-06. My wife grabs the 223 and 357. If more time is available, say 1/2 hour or more, everything goes into the truck and off we go.

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #21 on:** February 18, 2009, 10:29:09 AM »

A NEF smooth bore 20ga is gonna be my next purchase I have been reading about how to load your own shells with BP at trail side, I hope I'll never have to but I will be ready if the time comes.

Country boys will survive.

SDS-GEN · « **Reply #22 on:** February 18, 2009, 11:51:32 AM »

Get a smooth bore. If you don't intend to use it for bird hunting you can get a cylinder bore 870 or 500 with an extended magazine. These will still work on birds but range will be limited. In WWI the shotgun proved itself as an extremely effective weapon for close range work. So much so that the Kaiser called for the allies to stop using it.

mannyrock · « **Reply #23 on:** February 18, 2009, 03:42:43 PM »

Geez, guys, I'm sorry that I just cannot agree with any of this. I have been hunting and shooting, with shotguns and rifles, for 42 years.

Buckshot is devastating or effective out to 60 yards?? Sorry, but it isn't. It wouldn't come close to the effectiveness of 3 shots of solid point .22LR fired from a semi-auto rifle. Numerous tests of buckshot have been published in articles in G&A, American Rifleman, etc. over the past 20 years, and they have universally found buckshot to be a loser past 35 yards, no matter whether you are shooting 00 Buck or #4 Buck. It is such a loser, that it has been outlawed in many states, including southern states such as Tennessee, as being inhumane on deer.

The problem with a shotgun is the extreme weight of the ammunition, compared to its effective range. I have not done any actual weight comparisons, but for the weight of one high base 12 gauge shell, you could probably carry 20 rounds of .22 LR, or 10 rounds of .22 Magnum, or 3 rounds of .223. And, your range with these is not limited to 40 yards. (I was accidentally hit with a blast of #5 bird shot from a 12 gauge at about 60 yards one time, full front on, while rabbit hunting. It just bounced off my wool hunting coat. Didn't even scratch my glasses! A .22 LR solid from that distance may well have killed me.) Yes, a 20 gauge shell weighs somewhat less than a 12, but probably only 25% less.

Yes, I know that slugs are effective on deer out to 100 yards. I have killed a deer at that range with a 20 gauge slug. But, the weight of slug shells is very considerable. (How many boxes of those are you gonna carry?) Instead of a slug shell, give me two or three cartridges of .223 soft point or 10 rounds of .22 magnum any day, and I'll just limit my shots on deer to 50 yards.

Yes, a shotshell is more effective if you are going to shoot at moving game. But, honestly, in a shtf situation, are you really really going to waste a shotgun shell by shooting at a flying quail or a running rabbit? Better not shoot at many of those, as you will only be able to carry 2 or 3 boxes of shotgun shells. For that weight, you could carry an entire brick (500 rounds) of .22LR, and limit yourself to sitting game.

I just can't imagine a shotgun of any gauge being a good shtf weapon if you are going to hold up somewhere. A child with a .22LR repeater would able to pin you down and put you out of commission from 100 yards away. He could literally rain Heck down on you, and you would do what? Fire a slug at him?

Now, I can agree on the shotgun in one scenario: I would agree that in a deep urban environment, where you had to move from room to room, or building to building, a good 12 gauge repeater, with 3 inch shells in #4 buck would be a good bet. But, don't let yourself get caught out in the town square or any other open area in town. Anyone on a roof with any type of rifle would be able to nail you.

Give me a .22LR semi-auto, or a .22 magnum repeater, or even a single shot .223 rifle any day, as either a hunker down gun or a foraging gun in a shtf situation, over any shotgun.

Of course, these are just my silly opinions. No offense intended to anyone.

Mannyrock

Oldshooter · « **Reply #24 on:** February 18, 2009, 04:11:23 PM »

Well pardner I have shot deer on the run at 60 yards with buckshot and dropped them like a rock. G&A wasnt there

I'll shoot quail, deer,duck, squirrel and rabbit right here and reload with buckshot to keep the trash away. not gonna carry it around in a bucket running down the trail like a nomad. i'll only leave this place if i find a better one or feet first.

and dont send anyone you love here with a 22 to take what i have

Sorry, but your silly opinions is the one point that I agree with you on.

mannyrock · « **Reply #25 on:** February 18, 2009, 06:05:10 PM »

Oldshooter,

If your opinion is that buckshot is an effective deer killer at 60 yards, . . . .then I'll leave you to it.

Manny

rocko · « **Reply #26 on:** February 18, 2009, 09:43:39 PM »

Quote from: mannyrock on February 18, 2009, 06:05:10 PM

Oldshooter,

If your opinion is that buckshot is an effective deer killer at 60 yards, . . . .then I'll leave you to it.

Manny

Couldnt have said it better myself.

I agree a 22 would be much better all around. The braggards aside, buckshot stinks. Pretty well common sense to anyone that what you said was correct. Buckshot would be great for shooting folks out to about 30 yards, but the 22 would definately be better for a survival gun. A fella could do alot of damage, and food collecting with 2000 rounds of 22 LR, but good luck packing 200 rounds of shotgun ammo.

gstewart44 · « **Reply #27 on:** February 19, 2009, 05:35:58 AM »

the OP asked about hunkering down with one shotgun......smooth or rifled.

I think the most versatile, durable shotgun out there is the smooth bore Rem 870. I have only shot 12 g and I like it but Swampman, Shootall and others make a great case for a 20 g. I have been able to take rabbit, duck, squirrel, coyote, hog, deer and turkey with this one longarm. I have a 20" barrel on it. It is easy to carry and utterly reliable.

The 22 lr is an excellent survival tool but that isn't the topic here.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #28 on:** February 19, 2009, 05:49:07 AM »

Ya'll need to get out more , there are gunsmiths doing things to bbls today that make buckshot effective to ranges not heard of years ago.
I have one 870 bbl. that will throw a pattern of Federal 000 copper plated shot no bigger than a baseball cap at 45 yards . I don't remember the deer i have killed with it past 50 yards . one or two over 65 yards .
The 20 ga. with rifled slugs is almost if not egual to the 12 . With some slugs it may be better .
As for the 22 it would be a great game gitter , its not the poachers choice for nothing .
but in self defense aginst more than one it would be lacking big time . as multiple hits needed on multiple targets would be a streach while beinf fired at .
As far as pinning someone down at a hundred yards iffy at best .

Oldshooter · « **Reply #29 on:** February 19, 2009, 07:14:37 AM »

I am totally happy if someone wants to carry 2000 rounds of 22LR around, or a 22 rifle for that matter ( I happen to own several and use and like them very much). I do think shooting at large game(or men) with a 22 is not very prudent. However IF I had to pick only one shooter I would pick the smoothbore. This my opinion from my Experience.

I don't think it is necessary to cast dispersions on someones character simply because you don't agree with them , especially if you do not know them. Braggards is that anything like braggarts, and Who's bragging, just was stating a fact, did not find it in a magazine. I have experienced it.