Author Topic: I need some help here. Please (Read 1425 times)

DalesCarpentry · « **on:** February 18, 2009, 01:24:15 PM »

This past weekend I went out with my neighbor and shot his T/C Contender 44 Mag. I have to say it was a blast. We were shooting it at 50 yards and we both had a lot of fun. I got to thinking I would not mind having one some day. So I got to looking around on the internet and found out they are not cheap at all.

I have owned Handie's in the past so I got to thinking I could buy the frame first and add barrels as time goes on. This is my first question. Is this a Contender frame?
http://www.rrarms.com/catalog.php?prod=GTC1806
If it is what barrels will fit it because it looks like T/C makes several different frames? Could I buy a rifle stock for this and convert it to a rifle if one day I decided I wanted to go hunt Groundhogs with lets say a 22-250 barrel with it? Then convert it back to a pistol if I wanted to go shoot the 44 Mag. barrel another day. Thanks for any information you can provide. I know nothing about these pistols. Dale

I just found this. http://www.rrarms.com/catalog.php?prod=GTC8700 Would I be better off with this frame. I think it is the newer verision

Please advise me of the pros and cons of the 2 frames and the same questions as above would apply here as well. Thanks Dale

Dezynco · « **Reply #1 on:** February 18, 2009, 02:09:14 PM »

The first picture you posted is of an Encore, the second picture is of a G2 Contender. The Encore is a bit larger and heavier than the G2 Contender, but it will withstand MUCH larger cartridges.

The Contender is capable of withstanding the pressures of cartridges like the 44 Mag, 30-30, 223 Rem, 7x30 Waters, 45-70 etc. All of these cartridges have chamber pressures under 50,000 c.p.u.'s (give or take a little). The Encore will withstand much higher pressures like the 30-06, 300 Winchester Mag, 375 H&H Mag, etc.

The Encore can be chambered in anything that the Contender can handle, but the Contender stops where the Encore picks up. However......

Most of us old "Contender Guys" prefer the Contender as a pistol, although it makes a fine carbine also. The Encore is the way to go if you need a "big" rifle, but it also makes a fine handgun if you need a handgun bigger than say - a 30-30 or similar. I can't shoot much further than 150 yards with a handgun, so the Contender suits me well as a handgun. My brother has been known to shoot 300 yards or better with his 280 Encore rifle. Are you following my drift?

Now as far as differences in the frames - Thompson Center only offers the "new" G2 Contender and the Encore (Encore "ProHunter" is the same basically). If you look around, you can find a good deal on an original Contender. The "Old" Contender is a bit more finicky, but the trigger pulls on most of them are fantastic - that's why they will fetch nearly as much $$ used as the new G2. The barrels from the G2 Contender and "old" Contender will interchange (usually), but the grip and/or stock will not interchange.

Nothing between the Encore and Contender will interchange because the Encore is bigger than the Contender. It comes down to whether you want a large calibers or "smaller" calibers as to whether you want a Contender (new "G2" or "Old-Style") or an Encore (or "ProHunter").

Hope this helps you!

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #2 on:** February 18, 2009, 02:20:18 PM »

OK. I think I am following you. I think the Encore(the first one pictured) may be better for me for the simple fact I may want to shoot higher pressure rounds. Now could I add a rifle stock to this? I am not sure what rifle calibers are avaiable for this but I don't think I would enjoy shooting a pistol in a 308 Winchester as an example. Also would the barrels for the Encore come in regular rifle lenghts like 24'' or so? Thanks Dale

pozoutdoors · « **Reply #3 on:** February 18, 2009, 02:22:02 PM »

Either one would work great!! But, if you want to shoot higher presure rounds such as the 22-250 you will need the encore. If you wanted a .223 it is available in both encore and contender!!! It all depends on what you want to do with it. I have an encore. I have a .50 cal. muzzleloader and a 25-06 barrel for it. I have a .45 acp pistol barrel coming tomorrow for it too!!!! I've never shot one as a handgun but I bet they are fun!!! As a rifle they are great!!! What ever one you get you will love it!!! Don't forget that barrel become addicting!!!

Good luck!!!!

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #4 on:** February 18, 2009, 02:24:04 PM »

OH. One other thing. Those frames must be registered as a pistol frames then? Otherwise you could not put such a short barrel on them. I am sure you guys are a little bias but do you think the Encores shoot better than Handie's? Is there any tinkering you have to do with these to get them to shoot? Do they shoot MOA or better? Inquiring minds want to know. Thanks Dale

Dezynco · « **Reply #5 on:** February 18, 2009, 02:33:53 PM »

OK, If you want to shoot "high pressure" rounds like the 25-06, 30-06, 308, etc, then you'll need the Encore. I owned a 308 Encore pistol, it really kicked, but not too unpleasant because the recoil is mostly straight back - doesn't wring your wrists too badly. BIG fireballs out of the muzzle, lots of fun!

There is a HUGE debate floating around here about converting a rifle into a pistol vs. converting a pistol into a rifle......most agree that converting a pistol into a rifle is OK, but not the opposite. Some figure that it doesn't matter unless you put a rifle stock onto a frame that has a barrel shorter than 16" (a rifle with a barrel shorter than 16" is ILLEGAL! Dusty old law!). If your Encore or Contender starts out as a pistol, then there's no doubt that you can convert it into a rifle or carbine with a 16" or longer barrel. The argument comes in when you convert the rifle into a pistol.....how well do you know your local law enforcement, and are you a bank robber?

I you catch Contenderitis or Encoreitis, you'll probably own a few of each eventually!

Dezynco · « **Reply #6 on:** February 18, 2009, 02:39:42 PM »

Oh yeah, you can get Encore barrels in almost any caliber you can think of, as well as length you might want.

The Contender (my favorite) is limited to low pressure rounds, but the barrel lengths are usually 18" - 23" or so in rifle lengths. I'm thinking about getting an 8" 45-70 barrel! Wouldn't that be a hoot!

There are several custom barrel builders that can pretty much build you any length and caliber that you can imagine if you can't find what you want in factory offerings. That is true for Contender (as long as it's safe) and Encore.

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #7 on:** February 18, 2009, 02:43:30 PM »

Quote from: Dezynco on February 18, 2009, 02:33:53 PM

OK, If you want to shoot "high pressure" rounds like the 25-06, 30-06, 308, etc, then you'll need the Encore. I owned a 308 Encore pistol, it really kicked, but not too unpleasant because the recoil is mostly straight back - doesn't wring your wrists too badly. BIG fireballs out of the muzzle, lots of fun!

There is a HUGE debate floating around here about converting a rifle into a pistol vs. converting a pistol into a rifle......most agree that converting a pistol into a rifle is OK, but not the opposite. Some figure that it doesn't matter unless you put a rifle stock onto a frame that has a barrel shorter than 16" (a rifle with a barrel shorter than 16" is ILLEGAL! Dusty old law!). If your Encore or Contender starts out as a pistol, then there's no doubt that you can convert it into a rifle or carbine with a 16" or longer barrel. The argument comes in when you convert the rifle into a pistol.....how well do you know your local law enforcement, and are you a bank robber?

I you catch Contenderitis or Encoreitis, you'll probably own a few of each eventually!

I would think that either of those I posted about would be starting life as a pistol frame. Do you think I am correct in that assumption? So it really sounds like the Encore is for me then. As for the bank robber. No I never got the nerve up to rob a bank.

I try to just stick to convenience stores,gas stations and the occasional car jacking.

That is a joke if you don't know.

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #8 on:** February 18, 2009, 02:45:17 PM »

Quote from: Dezynco on February 18, 2009, 02:39:42 PM

Oh yeah, you can get Encore barrels in almost any caliber you can think of, as well as length you might want.

The Contender (my favorite) is limited to low pressure rounds, but the barrel lengths are usually 18" - 23" or so in rifle lengths. I'm thinking about getting an 8" 45-70 barrel! Wouldn't that be a hoot!

There are several custom barrel builders that can pretty much build you any length and caliber that you can imagine if you can't find what you want in factory offerings. That is true for Contender (as long as it's safe) and Encore.

Thanks for the info. I am liking this idea more and more. Dale

Dezynco · « **Reply #9 on:** February 18, 2009, 03:01:19 PM »

Either one will be a lot of fun! Wait until we get you handloading your own ammo!

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #10 on:** February 18, 2009, 03:02:44 PM »

Do they make a short 223 barrel for the Encore? Like maybe 14'' or so? I think that would be real fun and cheap to shoot. I guess if they don't make it that way you could have it cut and recrowned by a smith. Dale

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #11 on:** February 18, 2009, 03:04:11 PM »

Quote from: Dezynco on February 18, 2009, 03:01:19 PM

Either one will be a lot of fun! Wait until we get you handloading your own ammo!

I got my wheels turning now on the possibilities. Dale

Dezynco · « **Reply #12 on:** February 18, 2009, 03:11:20 PM »

There is a barrel builder that has all their pistol barrels on sale right now (they're not a sponsor here) and they will build you a barrel to your specs. You could purchase a 15" 223 and have it cut down very easily. The 223 is extremely accurate in a handgun barrel, but notoriously loud-mouthed!

The 223 will work in a Contender or an Encore.

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #13 on:** February 18, 2009, 03:12:26 PM »

Quote from: Dezynco on February 18, 2009, 02:39:42 PM

I'm thinking about getting an 8" 45-70 barrel! Wouldn't that be a hoot!

Yes it would be!!!!!!!!! :oYou are more man than I am!!!!!!!!!!

Dale

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #14 on:** February 18, 2009, 03:16:09 PM »

I did find this on by the sponser of this fourm. It is 12". http://www.edstc.com/12enc.html Sure looks like fun to me. Dale

Dezynco · « **Reply #15 on:** February 18, 2009, 03:19:57 PM »

You'll need to call Ed to make sure he still has it in stock. The web page can get a little behind sometimes.

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #16 on:** February 18, 2009, 03:32:31 PM »

Quote from: Dezynco on February 18, 2009, 03:19:57 PM

You'll need to call Ed to make sure he still has it in stock. The web page can get a little behind sometimes.

Well I don't have the money to even buy the frame as of yet. I am just looking into this and I like what I hear so far. So how are your guns shooting? I know a break action will probably not be as accurate as a bolt action by design(there are exceptions) but I would like to hear how your Encores shoot. In particular the caliber and group size at 100 yards. Thanks Dale

tncowboy · « **Reply #17 on:** February 18, 2009, 04:13:14 PM »

You should get both in your hands if you can before you buy, the encore is larger than the contender the distance to the trigger is longer in the encore, to me the encore is hard to handle, just don't fit me right, just something to think about before you spend a lot of money,
I like the old style contenders best

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #18 on:** February 18, 2009, 04:28:14 PM »

Quote from: tncowboy on February 18, 2009, 04:13:14 PM

You should get both in your hands if you can before you buy, the encore is larger than the contender the distance to the trigger is longer in the encore, to me the encore is hard to handle, just don't fit me right, just something to think about before you spend a lot of money,
I like the old style contenders best

Yea that could be a problem. I do have small hands for a guy. Dale

tncowboy · « **Reply #19 on:** February 18, 2009, 04:46:24 PM »

If you have small hands you for sure need to try both before you buy
I don't know about the G2 I have never held one, some say they are a smaller version of the encore, mite work for you
Probably the best thing to do is try all three

Dezynco · « **Reply #20 on:** February 19, 2009, 01:35:19 AM »

Quote

I know a break action will probably not be as accurate as a bolt action by design(there are exceptions) but I would like to hear how your Encores shoot. In particular the caliber and group size at 100 yards.

My G2 Contender is more accurate than any bolt gun I've ever fired - I'm talking my pistol here! Granted I can't get as steady with it offhand as I can be with a rifle. I'm a pretty good shot with it out to 50 yards without a rest. I think most folks here will agree with me that Contenders and Encores will shoot sub-1" groups out to 100 yards! I can put 3 shots touching at 100 yards with my 14" 30-30, and can do it regularly. At 25 yards I can shoot one ragged hole. My 30-30 has a nice Nikon 2-7x scope on it, so that helps with the groups. Of course those groups are off of a steady rest. I have several other barrels for it that are capable of the same results, if I do my part!

My buddy has an Encore pistol with a 12" 308 barrel that can turn in the same results. It's a real handful though!

Like I said before, I prefer the Contender as a pistol, and the Encore as a rifle. Both work well in the opposite roles though. Good advice would be to wrap your hands around a handgun version of each, go from there.

hunterspistol · « **Reply #21 on:** February 22, 2009, 12:20:08 PM »

Only one thought about being a bank robber, it's a single shot-methinks it to be suicide!

jammer308 · « **Reply #22 on:** February 22, 2009, 02:29:45 PM »

Dale, Either way you go, do yourself a favor and get a .22 lr barrel to get started with. I'm telling you it's the absolute best way to start out with these handguns. (My dumb ass started with a .308 pistol.

) Give the frame a trigger job, pillar bed your forends, and shoot all day with that .22 barrel. Once you got the hang of it, go to your bigger bangers. I have medium hands and have always had trouble with the wood grips. I like the T/C rubber grips best so far, and I'm wanting to try the pachmayrs. They look real nice. Fit and comfort makes a big difference when shooting the .308 or similar in a handgun. I'm getting 1 1/2" groups and better at 100 yards with my .308.

I do believe a rifle frame must stay a rifle, and a pistol frame a pistol. All the debate on the net can't argue with the BATF. jammer

neald · « **Reply #23 on:** February 28, 2009, 10:02:22 AM »

Dale,
You can make a rifle out of a pistol and then switch back to a pistol. But you cannot make a pistol out of a rifle, PERIOD!!!!!!!
Also, you cannot have a short barrel on a frame with a rifle stock on it. T/C makes their shortest rifle barrel(carbine) 16 1/4 '' long .this barrel is the shortest you can use with a rifle stock (butstock).From what I have been told by a gent I worked with for several years who is a FFL holder, as far as BATF is concerned a rifle or pistol frame is determined by how it was shipped from the factory.Whether it was shipped as a pistol or as a rifle frame.

All that said, this is the internet and I would check w/BATF myself.
Neal

neald · « **Reply #24 on:** February 28, 2009, 10:20:08 AM »

Dale,
I forgot to say something. I have 8 or 9 contender frames and two encore frames with a bunch of buttstocks, grips, and forarms and about 40 barrels in all.I am also a member of the TCA (Thompson Center Assoc.). If I was starting out now I would buy a pistol frame and then later would buy a rifle frame if one became avail at the right price. Many have told you of the differences of the Encore and the Contender. you have to decide for your self on that one. If you want to talk send me a IM with phone number and I will call you tonight, I am home whilr wife is at a dog show.
.
Neal

expeditionx · « **Reply #25 on:** February 28, 2009, 11:01:51 AM »

Quote from: neald on February 28, 2009, 10:02:22 AM

Dale,
You can make a rifle out of a pistol and then switch back to a pistol.

That's not true according to the Feds. It's legally irreversible.
See post number 63 on this link
http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,154467.60.html
Unless you have some written acknowledgment from the same
agency, its a felony according to their policy.

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #26 on:** February 28, 2009, 12:00:34 PM »

The way I have always understood it was as long as your pistol starts it's life as a pistol then you can convert it to a rifle at any time you like. You just can't do it the other way around.
neald. Thanks for the offer. I don't know if I would be able to call you tonight though. My back is giving me a fit and I am finding it hard to even sit in this chair right now. Dale

expeditionx · « **Reply #27 on:** February 28, 2009, 01:49:44 PM »

I'm not trying to give anyone a hard time,
just something to think about.