On THAT day, what store would you visit and what would you buy?

[mannyrock]

Dear Guys,

   We've all heard about how, if something bad ever happens, everyone will run to the big grocery stores and Wal-Mart, and create huge, clogged, riots, by trying to buy everything up in sight.

  Not me.  If I have the chance to run to a store, I'm going to a Feed & Seed Store, and buying the following:

   1.  Four 60 pound bags of wheat seed. (Plant it or eat it.)
   
   2.  Four 60 pound bags of yellow soybean seed (Plant it or eat it.)

   3.  Two 60 pound bags of feed corn.  (Plant it for chicken feed.)

   4.  Two 60 pound bags of chicken scratch.

   5.  Two 60 pound bags of rabbit feed.

   6   Fifty pounds or so of bush beans. (Plant it.)

   7.  As many packets of the following seeds as I can get:  turnips, squash, carrots, potatoes, tomatoes, cucumbers, pole beans.

   8.   Four 60 pound bags of cattle salt. (To use for humans.)

   9.   Two large red mineral blocks.  (To use for humans.)
 
   10.  As much animal tetracylene and penacillin as I could get.

   Hopefully, if the place was operating, I could call all of this stuff out, and have it loaded up in my truck in 20 minutes, and be gone. If I'm really lucky, they'll take a check.  :-)

Mannyrock
 

[bilmac]

I agree that this is the way to go. Isn't there a danger though in eating grains that are intended for seed? I would have no problems eating animal feed grains, but if I was a seed manufacturer bagging seed I would be likely to put just a dribble of an insecticide in the bag just to be sure. No regulations against it right. I think you may be a bit optimistic about quantity too. Have you looked at any of the Morman sites? They have always advocated keeping a year's supply on hand. I was astonished at the quantities they recommend. 

[Elijah Gunn]

I never considered a grain/ feed store. I am going to check out the ones near me and get an idea of what they have that I can use in my situation.
If I can get to a wallmart type store I would get...
Toilet paper
Garbage bags
Chlorine bleach
Matches,lighters
Canned food,and water
That's the stuff I would go for first.(off the top of my head anyway)
With what we already have, those things I've listed would help me most for an emergency that lasts no more than a couple months.

I have a gut feeling that there would not be riots unless it was a spectacularly HUGE/destructive event. Things stayed calm when the power went down for 3 days back in Aug 2003. Also how the people stayed calm when their plane landed in the Hudson river a couple weeks ago. There are also all the ready.gov billboards, and radio/tv commercials. So it seems like people at least have it in their minds that ,"Hey, something bad can happen to me so I need to be ready."
Riots as a result of civil unrest/ political issues... Thats different.

[Almtnman]

100 Items to Disappear First in Times of Emergency:


1. Generators (Good ones cost dearly. Gas storage, risky. noisy...target of thieves; maintenance etc.)
2. Water Filters/Purifiers
3. Portable Toilets
4. Seasoned Firewood. Wood takes about 6 - 12 months to become dried, for home uses.
5. Lamp Oil, Wicks, Lamps (First Choice: Buy CLEAR oil. If scarce, stockpile ANY!)
6. Coleman Fuel. Impossible to stockpile too much.
7. Guns, Ammunition, Pepper Spray, Knives, Clubs, Bats & slingshots.
8. Hand-can openers, & hand egg beaters, whisks.
9. Honey/Syrups/white, brown sugar
10. Rice - Beans - Wheat
11. Vegetable Oil (for cooking) Without it food burns/must be boiled etc.)
12.Charcoal, Lighter Fluid (Will become scarce suddenly)
13.Water Containers (Urgent Item to obtain.) Any size. Small: HARD CLEAR PLASTIC ONLY - note - good grade if for drinking.
16. Propane Cylinders (Urgent: Definite shortages will occur.
17. Survival Guide Book.
18. Mantles: Aladdin, Coleman, etc. (Without this item, longer-term lighting is difficult.)
19. Baby Supplies: Diapers/formula.ointments/aspirin, etc.
20. Washboards, Mop Bucket w/wringer (for Laundry)
21. Cookstoves (Propane, Coleman & Kerosene)
22. Vitamins
23. Propane Cylinder Handle-Holder (Urgent: Small canister use is dangerous without this item)
24. Feminine Hygiene/Haircare/Skin products.
25. Thermal underwear (Tops & Bottoms)
26. Bow saws, axes and hatchets, Wedges (also, honing oil)
27. Aluminum Foil Reg. & Heavy Duty (Great Co oking and Barter Item)
28. Gasoline Containers (Plastic & Metal)
29. Garbage Bags (Impossible To Have Too Many).
30. Toilet Paper, Kleenex, Paper Towels
31. Milk - Powdered & Condensed (Shake Liquid every 3 to 4 months)
32. Garden Seeds (Non-Hybrid) (A MUST)
33. Clothes pins/line/hangers (A MUST)
34. Coleman's Pump Repair Kit
35. Tuna Fish (in oil)
36. Fire Extinguishers (or.large box of Baking Soda in every room)
37. First aid kits
38. Batteries (all sizes...buy furthest-out for Expiration Dates)
39. Garlic, spices & vinegar, baking supplies
40. Big Dogs (and plenty of dog food)
41. Flour, yeast & salt
42. Matches. {"Strike Anywhere" preferred.) Boxed, wooden matches will go first.
43. Writing paper/pads/pencils, solar calculators
44. Insulated ice chests (good for keeping items from freezing in Wintertime.)
45. Work boots, belts, Levis & durable shirts
46. Flashlights/LIGHTSTICKS; torches, "No. 76 Dietz" Lanterns
47. Journals, Diaries & Scrapbooks (jot down ideas, feelings, experience; Historic Times)
48. Garbage cans Plastic (great for storage, water, transporting - if with wheels)
49. Men's Hygiene: Shampoo, Toothbrush/paste, Mouthwash/floss, nail clippers, etc
50. Cast iron cookware (sturdy, efficient)
51. Fishing supplies/tools
52. Mosquito coils/repellent, sprays/creams
53. Duct Tape
54. Tarps/stakes/twine/nails/rope/spikes
55. Candles
56. Laundry Detergent (liquid)
57. Backpacks, Duffel Bags
58. Garden tools & supplies
59. Scissors, fabrics & sewing supplies
60. Canned Fruits, Veggies, Soups, stews, etc.
61. Bleach (plain, NOT scented: 4 to 6% sodium hypochlorite)
62. Canning supplies, (Jars/lids/wax)
63. Knives & Sharpening tools: files, stones, steel
64. Bicycles...Tires/tubes/pumps/chains, etc
65. Sleeping Bags & blankets/pillows/mats
66. Carbon Monoxide Alarm (battery powered)
67. Board Games, Cards, Dice
68. d-con Rat poison, MOUSE PRUFE II, Roach Killer
69. Mousetraps, Ant traps & cockroach magnets
70. Paper plates/cups/utensils (stock up, folks)
71. Baby wipes, oils, waterless & Antibacterial soap (saves a lot of water)
72. Rain gear, rubberized boots, etc.
73. Shaving supplies (razors & creams, talc, after shave)
74. Hand pumps & siphons (for water and for fuels)
75. Soysauce, vinegar,bullions/gravy/soupbase
76. Reading glasses
77. Chocolate/Cocoa/Tang/Punch (water enhancers)
78. "Survival-in-a-Can"
79. Woolen clothing, scarves/ear-muffs/mittens
80. Boy Scout Handbook, also Leaders Catalog
81. Roll-on Window Insulation Kit (MANCO)
82. Graham crackers , saltines, pretzels, Trail mix/Jerky
83. Popcorn, Peanut Butter, Nuts
84. Socks, Underwear, T-shirts, etc. (extras)
85. Lumber(all types)
86. Wagons & carts (for transport to and from)
87. Cots & Inflatable mattress's
88. Gloves: Work/warming/gardening, etc.
89. Lantern Hangers
90. Screen Patches, glue, nails, screws,, nuts & bolts
91. Teas .Coffee Cigarettes. Wine/Liquors (for bribes, medicinal, etc,)
95. Paraffin wax
96. Glue, nails, nuts, bolts, screws, etc.
97. Chewing gum/candies
98. Atomizers (for cooling/bathing)
99. Hats & cotton neckerchiefs
100. Goats / Chickens

From a Sarajevo War Survivor:
Experiencing horrible things that can happen in a war - death of parents and friends, hunger and malnutrition, endless freezing cold, fear, sniper attacks.


1. Stockpiling helps. but you never know how long trouble will last, so locate near renewable food sources.
2. Living near a well with a manual pump is like being in Eden .
3. After awhile, even gold can lose its luster. But there is no luxury in war quite like toilet paper. Its surplus value is greater than gold's.
4. If you had to go without one utility, lose electricity - it's the easiest to do without (unless you're in a very nice climate with no need for heat.)
5. Canned foods are awesome, especially if their contents are tasty without heating. One of the best things to stockpile is canned gravy - it makes a lot of the dry unappetizing things you find to eat in war somewhat edible. Only needs enough heat to "warm", not to cook. It's cheap too, especially if you buy it in bulk.
6. Bring some books - escapist ones like romance or mysteries become more valuable as the war continues. Sure, it's great to have a lot of survival guides, but you'll figure most of that out on your own anyway trust me, you'll have a lot of time on your hands.
7. The feeling that you're human can fade pretty fast. I can't tell you how many people I knew who would have traded a much needed meal for just a little bit of toothpaste, rouge, soap or cologne. Not much point in fighting if you have to lose your humanity. These things are morale-builders like nothing else.
8. Slow burning candles and matches, matches, matches.

[SDS-GEN]

Some seeds for planting are treated with chemicals to stimulate growth and kill bugs, they can kill you too. 

Add to your list as much barbed wire as the store has available and we're on the same page.

[Lurker]

For food planting you want to collect HEIRLOOM seeds.

These are non-hybridized seeds, which means you can collect the seeds from the plants you planted, with the HEIRLOOM seeds, and these seeds will germinate properly.

Bill

[bilmac]

I bought all heirlooms from a place called Seed Savers this year. They have instructions for collecting seed on the package. It's surprising how many things are biannuals, meaning that they have to grow 2 years before they set seed. Beets carrots onions and even swiss chard. No big deal for you southerners, you just forget to harvest a few of each. Those of us who garden in sterner climates though have to dig them up and store them in damp sand at just above freezing temps and then replant in the spring. Now where am I going to keep something at just above freezing all winter. Lets hope there never comes a time when you won't be able to buy seed.

[mannyrock]

Dear Guys,

   Hmm.  I never thought about the problem of seed grain being treated with insecticides or growth chemicals. All the same, as opposed to starving, I think I would just soak the grain in water, for three days, pouring off and changing the water once a day, and then boil it up, and hope for the best.

   Of course, you could get around this by buying animal feed (like wheat feed, or soybean feed), and boiling that up, but that stuff couldn't be planted as seed.

   Another big issue: mouse/rat droppings in the seed or feed mix. Pretty darned common.  These carry viruses, and I'm not sure at all that boiling kills a virus!

  Maybe I'd just better stick to WalMart, and pray for the best?

   I also think, if you go to the feed store, and you have any room left in your vehicle, get as many roles of chicken wire, and woven small animal wire (2"x2") as possible, and a big case of galvanized fencing staples and flexible wire fencing ties.  Rabbits and chickens are really easy to raise.

   I wouldn't bother trying to haul barbed wire.  Very very heavy stuff, and if something really bad happens, there will be enough of that all over the countryside to go around.

Mannyrock



   

[bilmac]

I bought a grain mill, grinder. I have no problem with the idea of grinding feed corn. It is large grain so you just spread your daily ration out on the table and pick through it. I used to help my momma sort beans this way. If a guy really had to he could plant this stuff, you would get something to grow. The second generation could be more problematical, you would probably just pick the best looking stuff from the first planting and hope for the best.

I have bought a couple of strains of heirloom Indian corn. This may have been a mistake because now I have to keep them separated enough as I grow them that they don't cross polinate.

[teamnelson]

Around here we'd grab a few hundred cans of spam, 100lbs rice, 5 gallons of soy sauce and charcoal for the pig, chicken or fish we'll spear.

[mannyrock]

Team Nelson,

   If you are talking about white rice, it has absolutely no food value.  It is worthless as far as vitamins, minerals, protein, carbohydrates, or keeping on weight.

   Dr. Kepler, at Duke University, discovered this in 1970, and created the Kepler-Rice Diet.  Fat movie stars from all over the country came to Duke, to be on it for 30 to 60 days.    The diet was basically white rice, plus some vitamins and minerals, plus some green and yellow vegetables, plus small amounts of meat.  The one big rule of the diet was that you could eat absolutely as much white rice as you wanted, all day long. (This kept you from feeling hungry.)  No matter how much white rice people ate, they lost huge amounts of weight every week (like 10 to 20 pounds or so).  White rice is a starvation diet.

   I'm not sure about brown rice or so-called wild rice. That may be different.

Mannyrock

P.S.-  The problem with Spam is probably that there is a high suicide rate for anybody that has to eat it for more than 30 days!  :-)

[teamnelson]

Mannyrock,

My other options here (Oahu) would be Poi and Portugese sausage ... we may not eat well, but at least the coffee will be good!

S/F,
Chaps

[burntmuch]

Spams a good idea, but you gotta mix it up a bit. with pasta, rice, whatever you have on hand. Brings up a good point though, I dont want to eat spam everyday Another good thread, Im soon to be stocked up on ammo, Gonna start on the food.. But what store on that last day, thats a tuff one.

[MGMorden]

Team Nelson,

   If you are talking about white rice, it has absolutely no food value.  It is worthless as far as vitamins, minerals, protein, carbohydrates, or keeping on weight.

   Dr. Kepler, at Duke University, discovered this in 1970, and created the Kepler-Rice Diet.  Fat movie stars from all over the country came to Duke, to be on it for 30 to 60 days.    The diet was basically white rice, plus some vitamins and minerals, plus some green and yellow vegetables, plus small amounts of meat.  The one big rule of the diet was that you could eat absolutely as much white rice as you wanted, all day long. (This kept you from feeling hungry.)  No matter how much white rice people ate, they lost huge amounts of weight every week (like 10 to 20 pounds or so).  White rice is a starvation diet.

   I'm not sure about brown rice or so-called wild rice. That may be different.

Mannyrock

P.S.-  The problem with Spam is probably that there is a high suicide rate for anybody that has to eat it for more than 30 days!  :-)

While the vitamin count and such for white rice is low, it does have about 175 calories per 1 cup cooked.  When it comes down to survival, calories are what truly counts.  Doesn't really matter where they come from from a survival standpoint.  To maintain a certain amount of weight on a low activity regimen, you need about 10 calories per day per pound.  If you're more active, then you have to maintain that 10 cal/lb intake plus a bit more (due to an increase metabolism that comes from increased activity), plus the number of calories worth of energy you used up performing your extra activities.  The exact value will vary from person to person but 10/1 is a good ratio for estimation. A man can live comfortably on around 2000 calories per day.  A woman on about 1400 per day.  If pushed you can stretch that down as low as 1000-1200, but beyond that things get rough.

Bottom line though, while vitamin supplements would help out a lot, 10 cups per day of just cooked white rice would be plenty enough to sustain you at a stable weight of around 180 lbs for an inactive person, or 130-160 for someone more active.

As a plus though, one thing that white rice DOES have a good amount of is iron.  Iron is one of the most important minerals needed to prevent feeling tired or lethargic.  You've have 100% of your recommended daily iron after about 6 cups of cooked white rice.

[Graybeard]

In some parts of the world rice is the primary ingredient in the diet every single day of the year as I understand it. It must have some food value cuz the folks in those areas are numbered in the billions. With all the butter and sugar I have to add to rice to make it palatable to me I figure I'd have way more than the needed calories to maintain my roughly 275 pound weight but then losing about 100 of those pounds would be a good not a bad thing.

If you wait until the last day to stock up expect to not survive.

[Badnews Bob]

Almost any canned good kept in storage will last ten years or more, Dried bean (plain ole pintos being a personal favorite) have lots of food value and are easy to keep and cook.

This is making me hungry, I think i may make a survival meal tonight. Some beans and pork with a nice onion and a little ground corn made into bread. Yep got my mouth watering.

[bilmac]

Now we know who the survivors will be, Bob's gonna come out the other side fat and happy on pork n beans.

[mannyrock]

Team Nelson,

   If you live in Hawaii, then you already live in wonderland.  Nothin could ever go wrong there.  :-)



GB,

   Yes, you are totally right.  A large percentage of people in Asian cultures use rice as a primary foodstuff, but notice how thin they are.   The thing that keeps them alive is the miracle called the soybean.  And to think, we didn't take that bean seriously in America until the 1950s.


   Having to eat 10 cups of rice a day to maintain 180 pounds of body weight?  I think that after the 3rd day, I'd just curl up in a ball and go to sleep forever!

Manny