Problems with .243 seating dies

[helotaxi]

Searched and couldn't find anything applicable...

I've got two sets of .243 dies now (a Lee collet neck sizing set with the dead length seating die and a basic Redding set with a basic seating die).  Here's my problem:  I'm finding it impossible to seat the bullet to the correct depth with either seating die.  I can get them both to seat to the same depth every time, but the bullets simply aren't seated deep enough to meet load specs.  For example, 2.635" is the shortest I could get a 70gn SBK.  That's with the seating plug bottomed out on the Redding die.  The Lee die won't even come close to that.  The only way I've gotten them short enough was with the Lee die with the free-floating portion of the seating plug replaced with one from a .204 Ruger seating die.  While that works, it's not optimal.

Bottom line, what am I missing here when it comes to getting these things seated right?

[cwlongshot]

Sounds to me like your seating die is not screwed in far enough into the press.

 First a foremost, be sure that your brass is trimmed to proper legnth.  Make up a dummy bullet using the trimmed case and bullet you intend to load. To start setting up the dies, put a trimmed case in the shell holder and raise it up all the way. Now screw in the die. Make sure that the collar is loose also remove the seating stem completely. Carefully screw it in until resistance is felt. This is the crimp touching the case mouth. Back the die off about a half turn and tighten the set screw in the collar. Now re install the seating stem and seat the bullet to the desired depth. This should get you to where you wwant to be, IF IT DOSENT, you may have a bad die. But since you mentioned that you have TWO sets doing the same thing, I'm going to assume operator error.

Check this and get back yo us.

CW

[helotaxi]

You described the exact process that I use(d).  The Lee die is a non-crimp die and is designed to be bottomed on the shell holder to take the slop out and get consistent results.  With it bottomed on the shell holder and the seating plug bottomed as well, it is longer than I want.  Only barely within the SAAMI max length.  The Redding die ends up just off the shell holder and if lowered any more gives more than a slight taper crimp, which I don't want varmint bullets without a crimp cannelure and all.

[wmurrell]

As I interpret your statement, you do not want any crimp at all. That said, my SWAG is that 70 gr bullets are semi new to .243 and the seater plug are deep to accomodate 85 and 100 grainers. How about "customizing" the seater plug by building up  with epoxy? My dies are RCBS and I hve not had this problem, but I read elsewhere about doing this for special bullets

[helotaxi]

I don't mind a slight taper crimp, but running the die any farther into the press will almost crimp the case closed and definitely damage the bullet.  I'll probably just find a thin hex nut to put above the seating plug as a spacer in the Lee die.

I'm at a loss as to how the die could be correct for a heavier bullet either as the OAL is the same for the 58gn and the 80-100gn bullets, there's just more bullet in the case.

[wncchester]

helotaxi, don't sweat it.  Dies do differ.   So do rifles.   If your cartridges feed from your magazine and chamber without jamming into the lands, and I suspect that both are ok, you are doing fine.  Only if they are too long to function correctly do you really have a problem.  If that's true, contact the die maker.

I wish the books would tell folks their printed OAL is no more of a "law" than their powder charges!  That one number causes a lot of people a lot of agony and it need not be so.  What they mean is that's the length they used to developed the data, nothing more. 

If we do as the books do say and start well below max and only work up IF there are no high pressure signs we will accomidate any differences in pressure from changes in the book OAL or case, primer, powder lot, or bullet choices.  If that weren't true we would all be seriously limited in what we could load! 

Cut yourself some slack on the details of the book loads, start well below max, watch for high pressure signs and have fun!

[helotaxi]

My understanding is that too short is much more of a problem than too long from a safety POV.  I only want a baseline with known data and then build from there.  If the rifle likes more jump to the lands, it would be a shame not to be able to consistently seat the bullet there. 

I placed a small spacer above the seating plug in the Lee die which gives me the full range of seating depths.

[wncchester]

"My understanding is that too short is much more of a problem than too long from a safety POV."

Yeah, that's true when applied to handgun stuff.  But, within rational limits, it really doen't have a lot of effect in rifle cartridges.  Seating a little deeper sort of increases the "freebore" and that tends to lower pressues a bit.  So, it's something of a reasonable trade off, deeper or shallower in rifles, not a clear cut thing at all.

We MUST be more cautious with handguns (small cartridges) because small changes make a lot of difference and we have no sound way to judge pressures as we do with rifles.  With rifles, even significant (not rediculous) seating changes don't mean much in residual case volume and we do have pressure indications IF we are attentive enough to watch for them.

[gypsyman]

Helotaxi, not sure if Lee does, but if you contact Redding, they make optional seating stems for their dies. Explain what is happening, and they might just have what your needing. Sounds to me that a longer stem could cure the problem. gypsyman

[AtlLaw]

Sounds to me that a longer stem could cure the problem.

Ya know, I had the same problem with one of my die sets last year!  Can't remember the caliber... .358 I think.    I do remember the dies were Reddings.  Now this has never happened to me before and it darn near drove me crazy trying to figure out what I was doing wrong.  I think I even posted here about it.

I finally just borrowed a longer stem from another set of dies, 30/06 or 35 Whelen, and it worked fine.

I know I'll run into it again this year because I didn't hunt with whatever rifle I was working with last year!