BH209 and 200grn bullets at 2500fps.

[grouse]

Rifle used- Knight Disc Elite 45cal.
Range- 104yds
Primers used- Federal 209A.
Sabots used- Harvester and MMP.
Powder used- BH209 135grn and 140grn loads. All loads are by volume.
Bullets used -Lehigh 200grn bullets
T/C 200grn ShockWaves

I broke this up into two range visits again. I was at the range bright and early this morning. I might say very cold as well. The first bullet to try was the 200grn SW with 135grns of powder.

Shot 1-2520 shot 2- 2525 Shot 3- 2528








Next up was the 200grn Lehigh bullet. This bullet gets better everyday.  Here i also used 135grns of BH209 by volume with a Harvester sabot. For some reason i couldnt get the velocity like i did with the SW. The Lehigh was actually faster last weekend.

Shot 1- 2496 Shot 2- 2490 Shot 3- 2488







I shot alot of powder and bullets and these two groups were one of the best for each bullet at 104yds.

Next up was the 200grn SW with 140grns of BH209. This is were i came to the conclusion that my 45cal Disc Elite wasnt burning any more then 140grns of BH209. Matter of fact, i got no increase in velocity with the 200grn SW. I fired two shots and noticed know velocity gain in the Chrono. But accuracy was a little better for some reason. This was two shots only. I noticed alot of un burnt powder in the snow.




Next up was the 200grn Lehigh bullet with 140grns of BH209. This bullet seems to get better the faster i shoot it.

Shot 1- 2516 Shot 2- 2515 Shot 3- 2549 Shot three was harder load. Does that explain the increase in velocity. I really think so.








As you can see the accuracy is very good with both bullets at these speeds. I believe the Lehigh bullet will be superior on game versus the 200grn SST/ShockWave.

I bought 200 40cal Harvester sabots to shoot this new Lehigh bullet and the new 45 Disc elite. Today i ran out of Harvester sabots at the range. 

So before i left i decided to shoot a 3 shot group with the MMP sabots and the 200grn Lehigh bullets. At a big surprise it was the most accurate group of the day at around 2500fps.

Shot 1- 2496 Shot 2- 2460 Shot 3- 2510
Shot 2 loaded very easy. I'm surprised it didnt blow the group. That is what i find with MMP sabots. That sabot that falls down the bore once and awhile. I HATE THAT.









After three jugs of powder today , i was very happy with both bullets at 2500fps at 104yds. I do think 140grns by volume is max in the 45caiber Knight Disc Elite with BH209.

I did shoot several groups with both bullets at 200yds. I will do report on that another day with some more shooting. I will say both bullets did very well at 200yds. For those that have followed some of my reports on Modern Muzzleloader. The 200grn Lehigh out of my 45cal Knight Disc Elite out shot my 50cal Triumph with a 250grn SST at 200yds.  If you find or remember that picture from my Triumph keep it to yourself for now.

For those that are concerned about sabots i found the ones shot with 140grns by volume of BH209. I never wory about what the sabot looks like, only the target. Here's a pic for those that do care. I thought they looked really good. These were the Harvester sabots.















 






 

[grouse]

I do want to mention something while i'm thinking about it. A guy on Modern Muzzleloader made a post right before i got banned that made alot of sense to me and i really respect were he's coming from. All these boards have sponsors. Owners and Moderators can have some benefits from this.

It would be nice to know when some one is testing a product, how the person testing the product is affiliated with the product. Muzzleloaders, Bullets, Powders, sabots,etc.

I learned of Lehigh bullets from the internet. www.lehighbullets.com
I ordered some 250grn bullets, then shot them and did a report on them. I was so immpressed i bought the 300grn .458 bullets to test in loose bore savages. I was extremely immpressed again.

So i went thru his web-site and could not find any 40cal 200grn bullets. I decided to call Lehigh bullets. Dave the owner answered the phone. I introduced myself and happily explained how much i like his bullets.

After awhile i mentioned 40cal bullets. I explained to him there are alot of people who feel the need for speed. Steve White for one SW on the board, and many others. I offered to pay for them and test them if he would make them. At my surprise he said sure Tom give me a couple weeks or so.  That's awesome, i'm thinking in the back of my mind. Of course i got excited that this guy was going to do something for a nobody that loves to shoot Muzzleloaders.

Dave has not charged me for any of the 40cal 200grn bullets. He has sent me atleast 350 of them. I am not promoting this bullet because of that. I'm doing it because they look great and flat out shoot. The real test will be on game and that cant come soon enough. I plan on testing on a Hog real soon.

Even though bullets are free to test, there is alot of time and money still involved.

4 packs of Harvester sabots gone-$25.00 bucks

7 0r 8 cans of BH209 gone in the process of testing all these bullets. Even the one's i paid for. Thats like $240.00 Bucks in powder.

Like 350 federal 209A primers. $15.00 bucks I just bought a Brick of 1000 today for $35.00 bucks.

I spent two days weighing 135grn loads, and 140grn loads. My volume measure only goes up to 125grns. So i dumped 125grns in a scale and then another 10grns right down the weight and weigh out 50 of them. Then the same thing for the 140grn loads. Thats three cans of BH209 weighed out. Then turn around and shoot it all in one day.

As some of you are saying, you didnt hafto. Thats right. Now i know i can shoot atleast 100 shots at 2500fps and have no plastic fouling in the bore and loose accuracy. The last group of the day was the best.

All this work is also so you dont hafto. if you like the 200grn SST/Shockwave theres alot of good information for you here. If you like the 200grn Lehigh theres alot of good information here for you.

We all waste money on something every day, every week, every month,etc. These bullets are no waste of money i can tell you. I hope to have in the field results from a ML soon.

I like looking at other peoples pictures. I'm going to post some more pics from today.

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

excellent post and you get all the respect from me that i can offer. Honesty is hard to find these days and when you do find it, you better support that guy. I dont agree with what happened on MM, but i am not the boss over there so all i can say is that i hope you can enjoy this forum just as much. I know i enjoyed your posts over on MM and looked forward to them.

Nice shooting range, looks cold though. Im used to our 50* + weather here in colorado LOL.

[grouse]

Nice shooting range, looks cold though. Im used to our 50* + weather here in colorado LOL.

Thanks alot, it was very cold this morning. I would say around 20 degrees and a little breezy.

[burntmuch]

Awesome report, Ive got abunch of the 200 grain Shockwaves & mmps sabots. I get real good groups out of my Omega X7. Im wondering how fast is too fast. once again Awesome report, Thanks  Jay

[Lane]

Excellent report...as always Tom

I JUST new a good sturdy bench, and the proper shooting set-up would show exactly what the 45 cal Disc Elite can do

Like I said before, my Walmart folding tables and bean bags can only do so much

Now,  I assume you were still using the standard Breech Plug?  You can generally get 40-70 fps more from the NFPJ breech adapter and bare 209 primers, and next to no blow back.  But it's hard to eject the primers...they stick in the bolt, and I have to rattle the bolt to pop them out

I really like the 200g SW/SST's and harvested 5 deer with them this year.   My Son shot 3 with his 45 Elite and SW's    But I will be waiting on the ballistic gel tests for the Lehigh bullets.  And will pick some up for live game demo next season


Thanks again for your honest and detailed reports!
 

[Semisane]

Well Grouse, I have to say I always enjoy your detailed, organized and well presented reports, and I appreciate your "full disclosure" of the circumstances surrounding the Lehigh bullets.  Just about all my reading these days is on forums like this one.  I would rather hear first hand reports from dedicated shooters than read well disguised advertisements from professional writers.  I gave up on the "sponsored author" glossy magazines several years ago.

[AndyHass]

Those are some amazing velocities.  It makes me wonder -- what pressure are you pushing?  Guns are rated 150gr based on BP/pyrodex, which grain for grain produce pretty equivalent velocities.

777 is known to be more powerful than either, grain for grain, which is why the pellets are made to compensate for this (stay within the recommendations for the gun as 150gr volume of 777 is hotter than 150gr BP/pyrodex).

If you follow the recommended 15% conversion for 777, you get a max charge of about 130gr in a "150gr gun".

It appears BH209 is even hotter, running 140gr you are -- likely -- really over-charging the gun.  I'm not knocking anyone here, I'm just curious if the makers of BH209 or any of the gun manufacturers have come out with guidelines about this?

Thanks for the report.  I've had great luck with the 200SW at faster speeds as well.

[grouse]

BH209 is suppost to have less pressure then 777. 140grns of loose BH209 is know problem in a Knight with a 200grn bullet. I do understand your concern, but with such a light bullet there is no concern in a Knight.

[sabotloader]

Andy

Knight Disc Extreme and Elite are capable of shooting 150 grains T7 loose with a given projectile.

BH is a progressive burning smokeless powder and does not create the peak pressure that T7 does.  T7 burns a consistant rate which is fairly fast as compared to BH.  BH in effect does create pressure in the barrel for a longer period of time than does T7 and thus creates a greater velocity.  Acting much like real smokeless powder with a longer burning rate such as 4064 vs 4350.  Another characteristic of BH is that it is much more efficient with heavier projectiles.

With Grouse using a 200 grain projectile - BH really does not realize it's full potential and the pressure is significantly less than say shooting a 300 grain projectile.

I hope this makes some sense - I have it semi-clear in my mind but I am not a very good writer... I am sure Tom will/can correct me if I am wrong.

[rt_con]

Very helpful report Tom !

I 'm awaiting shipment of a N.I.B .45 Disc SS Elite right now. ... already have .50 (which is great shooter with T7). But I need to play around at the range with it using BH209. No luck yet with my "pet" T7 loads, but only had one range session so far. I modifed my "domed" breach plug like Lane's.... that may help. 

Now my Omega loves BH209.. with lot's of bullets.   I'm sure I'll get my Knight's to work with BH209... I'm very interested in their Ultimate Slam bolt/breach plug retro fit.

Thanks... Rob

[AndyHass]

Andy

Knight Disc Extreme and Elite are capable of shooting 150 grains T7 loose with a given projectile.

BH is a progressive burning smokeless powder and does not create the peak pressure that T7 does.  T7 burns a consistant rate which is fairly fast as compared to BH.  BH in effect does create pressure in the barrel for a longer period of time than does T7 and thus creates a greater velocity.  Acting much like real smokeless powder with a longer burning rate such as 4064 vs 4350.  Another characteristic of BH is that it is much more efficient with heavier projectiles.

With Grouse using a 200 grain projectile - BH really does not realize it's full potential and the pressure is significantly less than say shooting a 300 grain projectile.

I hope this makes some sense - I have it semi-clear in my mind but I am not a very good writer... I am sure Tom will/can correct me if I am wrong.

Gotcha... quite a marked difference, surprised me a bit is all.