WIn M70 Extractor problem

[tominboise]

I have a Winchester Featherweight in 6.5 Swede.  It won't eject cases from the rifle.  It appears that the case drops free from the extractor as the bolt is pulled back, never getting to the ejector.  Is there any way to "tighten" up the stock, cast, extractor, or should I replace it with a PME or something.  Any tricks out there?

Tom

[gunnut69]

I assume we're discussing a 'classic' type action with a non rotating mauser style extractor.  The tension is too light on the extractor.  To tighten, remove the extrator from the bolt and bend the extractor behind the extractor band dovetail. The tail of the extractor bearing on the bolt provides the tension.  Don't have to get really violent but the later ones may break.  If it does get one of the excellant PME machined extractors.  Or try again with Winchester>> Good luck!!

[tominboise]

You are correct - it is the classic style, but, how does one get the extractor off of the bolt?

?

[tominboise]

Never mind, figured it out and got it apart, and back together..........

Will advise if it fixes the problem.

Tom :lol:

[tominboise]

Well, I tweaked it pretty hard, but it still fails to eject about 80% of the time.  It will pull the case out until the case isn't supported by the feed ramp anymore, and then the case will fall free of the extractor. Is there any fitting I need to do to the extractor hook?  It looks ok, although maybe it's not getting enuf bite, as it rides on the locking lug.  It also appears that the case comes free of the extractor by popping off of the non extractor side of the bolt face, if that makes any sense.

Tom

[John Traveler]

Tom,

Is your Winchester M70 a pre-1964 model?

If it is, that may be part of the problem.  Pre-64 M70 Winchesters were probably designed for European-made 6.5x55mm ammunition, which, I don't believe, was a standard US production caliber at that time.

The currently produced 6.5x55 ammunition made by  Winchester uses the standard .473" diameter case and rim of the .30-06 head size, which is about 0.012-0.015" smaller than the European 6.5x55 case rim.

Try to find some Norma 6.5x55 cartridges and try those in your rifle.

HTH
John

[tominboise]

Good suggestion, but the rifle is current production "classic".  However, the other brass may work better - I may to try and locate some.

Tom

[John Traveler]

Okay, Tom,

With all this headscratchin' goin' on, all I can suggest is that it's possible that your Winchester extractor is not only out of adjustment, but very likely out of spec.

It's possible.  Did you read that other post of the guy that bought a new Winchester M70 in WSM chambering lately and found that the bolt face was the wrong size for his cartridges?

John

[gunnut69]

It may be that the extractor is sprung on the other end.  From the collar to the hook.,  This allows too much distance from the end of the hook to the bolt face.  The pressure the extractor exerts on the case, trapping it against the other side of the bolt face lip and the face itself is also reduced.  This also allows the extractor to be too easy to remove.  To remove the extractor rotate it toward the end of the retension slot that has a sloped surface to the level of the bolts exterior.  This will cam the extractor retaining ledge from the slot.  The extractor may then simply be pushed from the retaining collar.  The differences in case head dimensions between european and american ammo in the Swede is real but should not cause problems unless the extractor is already marginal.  These extractors are supposed to be springs but late production evidently are not.  Improper removal can damage a poorly made extractor while a well made extractor is difficult to remove improperly.  Cases droppiong from the extractor before ejection are caused by lack of extractor tension or excessive clearances.  Both of these causes are usually traceable to a faulty extractor..  Winchester's custome service is avaiable at -  
(800)876-2711  or  (800)333-3288

[tominboise]

Well, I replaced the extractor with a stock Winchester piece I got from Brownels, and the condition is worse.  So, I need to really reform the original extractor to see if I can get more tension on it.  If it lets go, I already have the (useless) replacement.  Where does one get a PME extractor?

[Dave in WV]

Tom, IMHO you should return the rifle to Winchester or an authorized repair center. The extractor may not be the problem. The bolt is the other half of holding the cartridge. I wonder if you have a Win Short Mag bolt on your rifle. If you know someone that owns a Win M70 30-06 or 270 compare the bolt and the way the case is held on it. Dave

[gunnut69]

Is this a new rifle?  How is the fit of the cartridge on the bolt when it's out of the rifle.  The extracor should hold the case on the bolt face when the bolt's out of the action.  Notice the fit of the extractor into the extractor groove in the case head.  If this is a new rifle perhaps the easiest thing to do is let Winchester fix it.  If it's a used gun I'll bet we know the reason it was sold.  I just bought the exact same rifle.  It's nearly new and I got it grom a good friend of mine..  He never fired the rifle...  I will..  Extracting a case is largely a matter of fitting the extracor to the bolt and the case...  That said, it should not be that hard...  Is the bolt face grossly too large for the case head??  If not I'd still bet the extractor is not fitting the bolt correctly.  The extractor hook must 'just' allow the case to slide up the bolt face, yet push it securely against the opposite side of the bolt face opening.  At the same time it must hold the case head back against the bolt face hard enough for the case to have to be kicked out of it's grasp by the ejector..  Will the action eject when the bolt is worked briskly?  fail only when the bolt is operated slowly..

[tominboise]

Okay, well, some more information.  I bought the rifle new from a local dealer a few months ago, so it wasn't traded for any reason.  The bolt face diameter is correct for the standard casehead.  A 7mm Mag case will not fit it.  I have two other M70's - one a pre-64 .270, and one a classic stainless 7mm mag.  Both of those rifles are fine.  The ends of the bolts on those rifle are flat, but on the 6.5, under the extractor when it's in the retract position, is a raised ridge on the bolt face, raised above the ridge that sort of encircles the case head.  It sits directly under the extractor hook when in position to pull the case out of the rifle.  My other M70's don't have this raised area.  Can anyone look at their M70 bolt and tell me if that raised area needs to be there?  It seems to keep the extractor hook spaced from the face of the bolt, and not allowing the hook to "clamp" the case head to the bolt face.

[gunnut69]

Sorry Tom--
I was out this evening mowing grass and then in the shop..  I'll check the bolt on my featherweight in the morning....it's 3:05AM< here and I'm going to bed, not to the vault...

[gunnut69]

There is the normal raised rifge surroundiong the bolt face and the extractor has been relieced on it's bottom edge to allow easier feeding.  It's still very mauser like...  Does your rifle hold the case well with the bolt removed from the rifle?  Where is the hump you speak of, on the bolt face or on the side of the bolt under the extractor?

[tominboise]

The raised area is on the normal ridge that is around the perimeter of the bolt face.  It is on the cylindrical end of the bolt, in line with one of the lugs.  FWIW, the extractor will trap a case against the bolt face, when removed from the rifle.  One has to twist it to slide into position under the extractor.  But, its not a tight fit.  

I am thinking about returning the rifle to the dealer to be sent back to Winchester.  I am a little disgusted with the whole affair.  I already had to scrape out the hot melt glue and rebed the thing, to relieve the barrel from riding on one side of the stock, and shim under the floor plate so it fit the floorplate latch properly.

[gunnut69]

TIB
Sorry for your trouble but it's the universal plague of our times.  No one seems to care enough to do things right.  One of the most popular 22 autoes is most often bought with the intent to change out parts!!  In any case if the extractor traps the case such that it's not easily pulled from the bolt, pulling the case toward the front or parallel to the length of the bolt, then it is working.  Are you working the bolt slowly?  These rifles are not designed to allow a slow motion of the bolt.  Rather a sharp motion is required to pull the case back and into contact with the ejector..  It is handy at times as the case can be allowed to stay in the rifle and be removed manually rather than it being ejected onto the floor..  I also have trouble identifying any protrusions on my rifle that match your description..  The extractor should retain the case so that with the extractor engaged on the case the side of the case oposite the extractor is pushed against the raised rim of the bolt face.  It should not be possible to remove the case by pulling straight forward on the case body..  only the impact of the ejector on the opposite side should be able to flip the case from the extractors grip..  Returning it to Winchester may be your best bet..  Perhaps the dealer where you bought it can look at it and suggest a fix.  I played with mine a bit and luckily it works well.  I have had bad experiences with all the makers.  I bought a brand new M70 SuperGrade that didn't have the SuperGrade legend engraved on the floorplate.  They had me send in the old plate but it got lost...at Winchester is my guess.  After repeated calls to their customer service I got shifted to a Browning customer service rep..  She was much better and said she would immediately send me a new assembly.  She stated they didn't sell the floorplate as a seperate item!!  It came and I wass thrilled until I checked it out.  It didn't have the SuperGrade legend either.... My next step will be a call to Brownells, perhaps they have a plate that will fill my needs.  Had a Remington M700 that had no ejector spring and the muzzel had not been crowned...  You could see the lathe marks on the end of the barrel...  Had a Ruger M77 MK-II that had a safety so loose that when the crud was removed(read cleaned only) it would flop on and of safe!!  Good luck and keep us up to date on your progress...