New to reloading, Couple of questions.

[bighoof]

I've had a 45-70 handi for a couple of years now, but getting into reloading. Been reading everything i can get my hands on for several months. Couple of questions ?

1. I have about a 100 of some Hornady leverammo cases, but can't seen to find any load data using this cases. All info  I have seen is for Rem or Winchester cases. Can the hornady cases be re-used?

2. Looking a H4895 powder, mainly because I'm also going to reload my 7-08, and .223Rem rifles as well, and I have found load data for all three using this powder. Don't want to have different types of powders laying around until get comfortable, plus really on a budget right now, any thoughts on this powder ?

3. Crimping, since the round is going to be used in a single shot, how much crimping is necessary, a light roll, heavy?

You guys are the 45-70 guru's, I thank you much for your time and experience..  

[Oldshooter]

3. Crimping, since the round is going to be used in a single shot, how much crimping is necessary, a light roll, heavy?

With a single shot  I would use very little or no crimp to save the brass, no need to crimp with a single shot, IMHO

cant help with the first two, but the hornady cases should reload just fine

[cwlongshot]

Bighoof,
 WELCOME!!!

The 45-70 is a great cartridge and a fine one to cut your teeth on reloading!!

1) Like Ol'shooter already mentioned those Hornady cases are just fine and will do exactly what you need. While keeping tite to the rec ipy is important as a whole. Understanding the hows and whys of it are equilly as important. MOST of the loads people make for the 45-70 are on the lite side and the volume difference of one case to another is not as much of an issue with those loads. As you approach heavy or "max" loads is where the differences can show up fast.

2) H4895 is a good powder for the Mid to heavy loads in the 45-70. These loads are good for your handi and any hunting you may do with it. I just looked at the Hogdon manuel, they are showing numerious loads for this powder with different bullet weights. Start on the lowsert loads and work up as you shoot to test them.
If only punching paper, you may decide to save the recoil and get a different powder thats better suited to lite loads. If you go this route, I recomend XMP 5744.

3) You are correct, Only looking at crimping from the rifles needs, crimping for a single shot is not necessarry. BUT, crimping is not always just done for the needs of the gun they are chambered in. Crimping helps with ignition of the powder. A volumious case like the 45-70 can sometimes greatly benifit from a crimp. You will need to experiment and see what your recipe likes or dislikes. I like to crimp my 45-70's.

Good luck. Come back and post up your esperiences and any questions. If you need it, there will be someone here to lend a hand!!

 CW

[bilmac]

Bigfoot  Your leverevelution cases are probably standard Hornaday cases that have a different headstamp. About the only cases that you don't want to reload are CCI aluminum cases. These used to have berdan primers so reloaders weren't tempted. I saw some 45ACP cases on the range the other day that had a single flashhole. Another type of case not to reload are those that are berdan primed. You can spot those by looking inside the case at the bottom. If there are two little holes there instead of one, throw it away. You don't have to worry about reloading these cases by accident, You will just wreck the depriming stem on your die if you get one by mistake. About the only thing to worry about with the 45-70 would be aluminum cases.

With your 223 you may well run into berdan cases and possibly steel cases. Until you get to know your way around a bit you could feel safe by using only name brand cases marked 223. If you come across a quantity of brass too good to pass up that you are not sure about, just post a thread  and I'm sure your questions will be answered. It is with 223 brass where the thickness of the brass that CW was alluding to is more likely to affect you.

I can't think of any problem brass that you might run into for the 7mm.

4895 would work with all three calibers. Lots of other powders will also work. What you will run into right now is finding what you want on store shelves. The stores are pretty bare right now thanks to the trust that a Democrat government is engendering. Depending on how fast things are disappearing in your town, I would ask a salesman at the store if what is available will work, maybe look in a book in the store, or the best option is see what choices there are and make a query on Greybeard if you think that you would have the time to do that.  But be aware that anything that goes bang is flying off store shelves. 

[mitchell]

1 like everytime you start a new load reduce by 10 %amd work up . if you use the start load out of your book even thu its using a differant case you'll still be fine.

2.
 H4895 is a good powder for the 45-07 mine like imr3031 but if your going to get into reloading your going to have a lot of powder layin around i think i got like 15 or 20 or so layin on my bench and a few kegs layin under the bench

3.
i don't use a crimp on anything , evertime i tried crimpin my groups go to crap but all i shoot are bolt guns and handis , even one my 45-07 lever gun i dont use a crimp


just remember one thing when it comes to relaoding " good ammo isn't cheap, cheap ammo isn't good" buy the best everything that you can 

[quickdtoo]

Congrats on getting into handloading!! The Hornady LE 45-70 brass is much shorter than standard 45-70 brass, here's a recent thread from the Handloading forum on the topic to help ya. 

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,149754.msg1098624558.html#msg1098624558

[cwlongshot]

Congrats on getting into handloading!! The Hornady LE 45-70 brass is much shorter than standard 45-70 brass, here's a recent thread from the Handloading forum on the topic to help ya. 

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,149754.msg1098624558.html#msg1098624558

 Kinda makes that whole SAMMI spec thing kinda moot huh???    Freakin' idiots, where will this end, companies just changing things to suit there needs with little or no reguard to the results. Thech this cartridge is no longer a 45-70. it may funtion in some but as per SAMMI specs for this cartridge, it is not a 45-70.

 I didn't have any idea that the LE brass was shorter! How would anyone? It's NOT supposed to be any different than any other piece of brass. Like I said, there are SAMMI specs for ALL AMMO. That makes it a level and SAFE playing field. This alone, will prevent my purchasing any of this product.
 
 Bighoof,
 My apologies on the miss information. This SAMMI spec is what EVERYONE making ammo and cartridges abides by. Its a STANDARD, that must be adheared to.  Its there so we all know what does what, with what and can safely see the results. Hornady making the brass shorter can be a big deal as powder capacitys of that shorter case are redused. Redused powder capacitys will RAISE pressures. Problems arise if your load was already up near max. (In a std legnth case) Then loading the same load in the LE case. The result could be very unsafe pressures!  Save that brass for lite loads or do not use it at all. Once you get more comfortable with the hows and whys maybe you can revisit the brass and work up some safe loads. but trying it with out the experience of loading pressure signs could be fool hardy. JMHO.

CW

[quickdtoo]

I don't think there's a need for apologies CW, while the short brass does pose a perplexing dilemma if you want to crimp in a crimp groove, it doesn't preclude loading to recommended COL, there's just less bullet seated within the case, which as you pointed out, may result in ignition issues due to insufficient bullet pull. I use the Lee Factory Crimp Die which in the 45-70 is a very nice die(not the same as their pistol FCD) that will put a nice light, or heavy or anywhere in between, crimp just about anywhere on the bullet, I prefer a light crimp on jacketed bullets and it works very well for me on everything I load for using it, you can barely see the crimp in the pic below. 

Tim

[kevinsmith5]

I have come to the conclusion crimping is some type of voodoo art.  I have tried a crimp on several loads just because I was experimenting and had bad results with all but the Saeco 21A-GC I load (like this 405 grain bullet by the way).  In this load my groups went from 1 1/2" at 100 yards to sub 1".  Go figure!  That is the only thing I crimp now. 

[bighoof]

Guys, Thanks for all the info; that was my problem with loading the LE cases, was told that there were too short. Well I'm going to use them for some plinking rounds.
Going to buy some Remington 45-70 cases for my hunting stuff. I got all my dies on order, should be here this week, can't wait to get started. Quick, that looks like  an awesome round there, I'd like to make some hunting rounds TSX bullets. Let yal know how it turns out.

Thanks again.  

[quickdtoo]

Thanks, it is, maybe someday I'll get to actually shoot something beside paper with it!!!

Good shootin to ya!! 

Tim

[bighoof]

Well guys, you can add me to the mix; I'm hooked on reloading. I'm also confused, I'll save that for later; got up Saturday morning and got started on my brass, cleaned and deprimed over 300 cases; mostly .223 but I made up several test loads for my 45-70 and 7-08. I got my measuring down to the grain with a little help from a powder trickler and using a digital MTM scale.
I built up a OAL dummy round using Fred M's idea in the FAQ section, measured and backed off .050" per Barnes web site.I Used once fired Remington brass and 51grs of H4895 powder with a 300gr Barnes TSx flatnose bullet; can't find any around here like the one in Quick's pic.

I used Winchester LR primers, but I'm wondering what everyone else is using because I noticed a lot of unburnt powder; more that I seen when shooting Hornady LE round.
?, should go with a magnum primer or stay with the standard one. Well off the range this morning, a nice 35 degrees in Mississippi, got a little snow Saturday night; crazy!
Shot my 1st round, fouler shot, then got on to the target; now I've only shot some Remington 300 gr, and The LE rounds, best group ever was 1 3/4 to 1 1/2 group; not a great shot anyways but my 3 shot group under an 1" @ 100yards,  happy is an under statement. Now I got to get me a chrono and see how fast these puppies are going.



On to the confused part, I loaded 10 rounds for my 7-08, 5-of 39.5 grs of H4895, 120gr Hornady HP under a Rem 9 1/2 primer, no problems. I then made up 5- 120gr Nosler BT, using same grain/type of powder and under a Rem9 1/2 primer also; these rounds failed to fire. All 5 FTF'd, I waited for a minute on each one; took the round out, put them back in my gun pulled the trigger;nothing! Thinking something could be wrong with the gun, pulled out some factory Remington rounds out of box, fired a round; BOOM !! so it's not the gun. Could I had 5 bad primers, now when I opened the box of primers, I dumped just ten in my Lee Hand held primer, 1st five went into the cases that fired, next went into the one's that FTF.

Any suggestions ? Picture of the rounds.




Thanks for all your idea's and suggestions.

[quickdtoo]

Nice shooting!! I had a bad box of Rem 9˝ primers too, just so happens they FTF when I was working with a 7mm-08 Handi and an Optima Elite too!! Needless to say, I don't have that batch anymore!!

Tim

[JerryKo]

I threw my sleeves away already.  I'll try to find, because I had alot of FTF with 9 1/2 primers also.  Could be a bigger problem than we know.  I just assumed it was my Lee hand held primer,or me( broken wrist I think, doc said no but xray tech thought maybe , and I have had enough broken bones to know and didn't have enough thumb strength on lefty so used some righty thumb pressure,....well anyway) because other than those I have been priming on the press without anymore problems.  Hummmm.  Anybody else and do you have the lot#?


Jerry

[bighoof]

JerryKo, the only # I can find on the side is 1642. I'm going to make up another load and use the same primers again but I'll load three with the hand primer and do three off the press.
I used the Remington because it was in the manual for the load, so my question is ?, can you use another primer, say CCI, winchester for the load even though it calls for Remington.

I chose to toss the bad rounds, could I've used a bullet puller to get the bullet/powder back out ? I would be too scared to try and deprimed one that didn't fire, but maybe I could save the bullet.

[AtlLaw]

Ain't reloading grand!?   

I've got several hundred left of a box of Rem 9 1/2's.  I didn't have 5 FTF's in a row but enough to make me decide to never use Remingtons again!   

[zoner]

yo can use a different brand primer....my favorite primers are Winchester, when they are available i don't even consider buying anything else. Just keep the application correct,you know,rifle primers for rifle loads,pistol primers for pistol loads etc.

[sr sawyer]

You can use a bullet puller to save the bullet and powder, the inertia type is my preference.  As for decapping the questionable primer I would spray a little Rem oil, WD 40, etc into the case mouth and let it sit a day or so before decapping.  I also lay a small towell or rag over the press and die during the process of actual decapping.  Although I have not had to do this very much I have never had one blow up. (YET)

My suggestion would be to prime the brass as you described and omit the powder and bullets.  You can test fire the primers  without wasting the expensive stuff and also save a trip to the range.  Make sure the muzzle is in a safe direction and not close to anything explosive because you do get a pretty good fire ball with just the primer.  Outside and up is the best way. 

[tykempster]

Remington primers don't work well for me either.  Loads of FTFs!

[bighoof]

You can use a bullet puller to save the bullet and powder, the inertia type is my preference.  As for decapping the questionable primer I would spray a little Rem oil, WD 40, etc into the case mouth and let it sit a day or so before decapping.  I also lay a small towell or rag over the press and die during the process of actual decapping.  Although I have not had to do this very much I have never had one blow up. (YET)

My suggestion would be to prime the brass as you described and omit the powder and bullets.  You can test fire the primers  without wasting the expensive stuff and also save a trip to the range.  Make sure the muzzle is in a safe direction and not close to anything explosive because you do get a pretty good fire ball with just the primer.  Outside and up is the best way. 

Thanks, I didn't think of that, should of; that's how I used to clean out the nipple on my muzzle loader.

[JerryKo]

Ok my new box is stamped 1624 unless I transposed those last two number on my note.  The last remaining sleve I have that I was using is 1502.  Now that may or maynot my problem batch, because the last time I bought was opened case and got mixed sleeves and didn't pay any attention to it.

When I first started reloading about 02, I used strickly Winchester LRM primers for my 7mmRemMag, and I would have some FTF as I recall.  Again they were all primed with the Lee primer.

As far as substituting a large rifle primer for another large rifle primer, I say try it.  It shouldn't be too different as long as you are not near or at max load.

I have deprimed dud and live primers without having a problem yet either.  However I wouldn't want to be unprepared.  Wear safety gogles, look away, and I like having a heavy towel or old rug over the top of the press also.  The mention of wd-40 in the case is pretty good as far as safety.  That should kill the primer.

Jerry

[quickdtoo]

The mention of wd-40 in the case is pretty good as far as safety.  That should kill the primer.

Jerry

Don't count on it! 

Tim

http://www.predatormastersforums.com/killprimers.shtml

[JerryKo]

 

I quess always double check first.



Jerry

[quickdtoo]

I've deprimed my share of live primers, I pull the bullets with a press mounted collet puller instead of a kinetic hammer type, dump the powder and deprime in the Lee Univeral decapper using safety goggles and hearing protection, none have ever popped yet. I don't remember who it was, but someone here was pulling bullets from pistol rounds with a kinetic puller and a round discharge, fortunately he nor anyone else was hurt, it just scared him reeeal bad. 

Tim

[bilmac]

I deprime them about the same as Quick. I have thought about oiling them, but don't because it would be difficult to get rid of the oil in the case so it will kill the next primer you put in it and maybe the next too, a vicious circle. I think I had one go off once, no big deal, loud yes, a nuclear grenade, far from it.

[mechanic]

I've deprimed my share of live primers, I pull the bullets with a press mounted collet puller instead of a kinetic hammer type, dump the powder and deprime in the Lee Univeral decapper using safety goggles and hearing protection, none have ever popped yet. I don't remember who it was, but someone here was pulling bullets from pistol rounds with a kinetic puller and a round discharge, fortunately he nor anyone else was hurt, it just scared him reeeal bad. 

Tim

I was pulling bullet from 25-06 rounds several years ago.  You know the drill.  Screw the little cap off the hammer, insert the round, screw on the cap and bang it on the work bench.  I had pulled quite a few when one went bang!  The screw on cap of the puller, along with the threads and the case all bounced off the ceiling of the shop.  The bullet remained in the puller.  I still pull them if I need to, but I wear a shield, gloves, and wrap a rag around the puller.

[quickdtoo]

I think a fella ought to wear an adult diaper too, then you could change real easy!!

Tim

[mechanic]

I think a fella ought to wear an adult diaper too, then you could change real easy!!

Tim

Fortunately the shop was outside the house, and near a water hose.  The "good" thing about something like this, is it keeps a fella' on his toes.  If you do a thing over and over, you tend to forget the elements of danger, and forget to take precautions.  A little accident here and there that causes no real harm, may save a life.  At least thats how I view it.

Ben

[Oldshooter]

I think a fella ought to wear an adult diaper too, then you could change real easy!!

Tim

Or like the fella said in the other thread, just keep it in there for counter balance! 

[kevinsmith5]

Do you have a rpimer pocket cleaner?  Fouling in the pocket can keep the primer form seating properly.  Cheap tool, potentially great difference.