Author Topic: BH209 Cost per shot scale. (Read 1236 times)

grouse · « **on:** February 24, 2009, 05:58:43 PM »

There are 7000 grains in a pound. BH209 comes in 10 ounce containers. There are 16 ounces in a pound. So you take 7000grns and divide by 16. This will give you the number of grains in one ounce. The number of grains in one ounce x 10 will give you the number of grains in a jug of BH209.

Example: 7000 divided by 16 = 437.5grns per ounce.

437.5grns x 10 ounces = 4,375grns per jug of BH209

So now you take your favorite load by volume and and weigh it on a scale. 100grns by volume equals 65.6grns by weight. I checked this on two different powder measures.

I will list an example.

You can get 66.69 shots out of a container of BH209 if you shoot 100grns by volume. Thats 4,375grns (10 ounces) divided by 65.6grns by weight.
Cost per shot from Natchez would be $26.99 divided by 65.6 = 41cents per shot.

Of course if you dont live near natchez you will pay a $20.00 bucks hazmat fee. Thats when you get some buddies and order primers, bullets, powder all at one shot. That hazmat fee is a set price for no matter what or how much you order.

Sportsmans wharehouse is selling it for $28.99....$28.99 divided by 65.6= 44cents per shot. When using 100grns by volume, and 65.6grns by weight.

Semisane · « **Reply #1 on:** February 24, 2009, 06:24:58 PM »

Nope! That doesn't work Grouse. You forgot one important step. One hundred grains volume of BH does not weigh 100 grains. You have to convert your volume measure of BH to it's actual weight before you divide it into 4,375 grains.

So, if 100 grains volume of BH actually weighs 70 grains (approximate/guess), 4,375 divided by 70 equals 62 shots per 10 oz. container.

grouse · « **Reply #2 on:** February 25, 2009, 03:47:54 AM »

Your exactly right my mistake. That makes BH209 even cheaper. I cant correct this until i get home. 140grns by volume was right around 100 to 101 by weight. That where i made the mistake. Thanks for pointing that out.

Buckskins & Black Powder · « **Reply #3 on:** February 25, 2009, 05:42:32 AM »

no where near as cheap as good ol reliable pyrodex

grouse · « **Reply #4 on:** February 25, 2009, 06:31:09 AM »

Quote from: bigblock455 on February 25, 2009, 05:42:32 AM

no where near as cheap as good ol reliable pyrodex

Spit patching and the great smell you get from Pyrodex is always an added bonus.

Busta · « **Reply #5 on:** February 25, 2009, 06:38:38 AM »

Quote from: grouse on February 25, 2009, 06:31:09 AM

Quote from: bigblock455 on February 25, 2009, 05:42:32 AM
no where near as cheap as good ol reliable pyrodex

Spit patching and the great smell you get from Pyrodex is always an added bonus.

You forgot Pyrodex is the most corrosive powder too.

Cheap is relative to ones time, time is money, so it is cheaper for me to shoot Blackhorn. Believe it, or not!

Semisane · « **Reply #6 on:** February 25, 2009, 07:08:56 AM »

Quote

Cheap is relative to ones time, time is money, so it is cheaper for me to shoot Blackhorn. Believe it, or not!

Well, I think that's kind of a stretch Busta. I see quite a few posts recommending letting your barrel cool between shots with Blackhorn. May as well spend that time wiping the bore.

I've only shot about a half canister of Blackhorn. Not too impressed so far. I haven't been able to get it to do anyting T7 won't do.

Buckskins & Black Powder · « **Reply #7 on:** February 25, 2009, 07:09:28 AM »

spit patch with pyrodex? My record stands at 26 shots without ever touching the bore. The most corrosive? i'd have to see some real good proof of that. My rifles are my investments so i do like to clean them and care for them. Plus i can use the pyrodex in every muzzy i own. Even works well as a main charge in my flintlock. So long as i have 4f goex for the pan.

Busta · « **Reply #8 on:** February 25, 2009, 07:59:07 AM »

Quote from: Semisane on February 25, 2009, 07:08:56 AM

Quote
Cheap is relative to ones time, time is money, so it is cheaper for me to shoot Blackhorn. Believe it, or not!

Well, I think that's kind of a stretch Busta. I see quite a few posts recommending letting your barrel cool between shots with Blackhorn. May as well spend that time wiping the bore.

I've only shot about a half canister of Blackhorn. Not too impressed so far. I haven't been able to get it to do anyting T7 won't do.

Not a stretch at all. Considering I can shoot a few shots every day, for several days or weeks if I wish. I have never intentionally waited for a barrel to cool. I can clean it every day or after a few weeks, if I choose to. Never have to swab between shots, as a matter of fact it seems to get more accurate the longer I go without cleaning. How much money is your time worth? One shot with pyrodex requires a full cleaning session, add up 1/2 hour to an hour every day, to save a few bucks on a jug of Pyrodex? Not worth it to me, YMMV.

777 doesn't give you a crud ring? I guess you haven't ran accross the right combination of rifle and bullet yet?

Buckskins & Black Powder · « **Reply #9 on:** February 25, 2009, 09:20:55 AM »

never had a crud ring from t7 in that x-150 i had, nor in the sidelocks but that powder i just did not like. It wasnt consistent from one shot to the next. Seeing how i would have to order bh209, that hazmat fee really kicks up that *just a few bucks* I shoot to much to be spending that kind of $$$ on paper.

grouse · « **Reply #10 on:** February 25, 2009, 09:31:53 AM »

Everybody has a right to like and use what they want. In all my shooting, BH209 is for real. Very clean consistent powder in all my Muzzleloaders. Take a look at three or four grains of BH209. Then look at three or four grains of 777 or Pyrodex. The grains will look the same grain to grain with BH209. The others are different from grain to grain. I think thats part of the reason the powder is so consistent.

Time is very important to me. making patches and buying patches to spit patch adds up. Buying solvents or making your own to clean pyrodex or 777 takes time and money. I buy Hoppes at walmart for $2.49 a jar. I'm not going to see how many times i can clean my guns with one bottle but it's alot.

If 777 and Pyrodex work for you.... great. They do nothing for me in comparison.

Buckskins & Black Powder · « **Reply #11 on:** February 25, 2009, 09:41:26 AM »

hot water is free and doesnt smell up the place like hoppes.

Doug B. · « **Reply #12 on:** February 25, 2009, 11:20:18 AM »

Hot water doesn't smell near as good as Hoppes #9 behind each ear!

sabotloader · « **Reply #13 on:** February 25, 2009, 01:01:17 PM »

grouse

It really is simple economics to me....

BH -> 4,375 gr/10oz -> @70 grains/100 grain loads of BH. $30/62 loads = $0.48 per shot.
T7 -> 7,000 gr/16oz -> @77 grains/100 grain loads of T7. $20/90.9 loads = $0.22 per shot

Next problem - it is not available in the area - have to go 100 miles to Spokane or Kennewick and Hazmat would really put the price per shot up there.

One of the reason I made the switch to ML's was to reduce the cost of shooting. Shooting centerfire will get expensive very rapidly if you shoot as much as I do.

Once I started shooting ML's - I really do not care to ever go back to shooting CF guns for practice or hunting.

The extra time and small added cost of bulk patches is all part of my experiance.

Finally, I have to agree with you BH is the "real Deal" - it is a smokeless/progressive burning powder that was engineered and designed as a ML propellent and overall it truly does make ML shooting a much easier experiance - it truly is 'user friendly'. But here is another point a 1lb bottle of almost any other Smokeless/Progressive burning powder is $21/$22 - why is BH $10 more for 6 less ounces?

Additional thought - thumbing through the new Cabelas Shooting flyer they have the Tipton Carbon Fiber Rods (XZ-229536-027 for a 270/45 cal rod) for $30 - that is the least expensive I have seen them.

grouse · « **Reply #14 on:** February 25, 2009, 02:32:54 PM »

I fixed the top now and it's accurate.

grouse · « **Reply #15 on:** February 25, 2009, 02:41:50 PM »

Sabotloader,
I agree it is very easy. You are not making a fair comparison. Only your chrono can do that. Lets use a 300grn bullet for sake of an arguement. How much 777 does it take to get a 300grn bullet to 2000fps? How much BH209 does it take to get a 300grn bullet to 2000fps? That is how you can compare. You wont be shooting the same amount of powder to equal velocity.

I believe a 115grns of BH209 will get a 300grn bullet to 2000fps. I dont think 130grns of 777 will at all?
I can shoot 135grns of BH209 and get a 200grn bullet going 2500fps. 777 cant get there. Velocity to velocity i think you will be surprised at cost of BH209.

grouse · « **Reply #16 on:** February 25, 2009, 02:45:49 PM »

Quote from: bigblock455 on February 25, 2009, 09:41:26 AM

hot water is free and doesnt smell up the place like hoppes.

Water isnt going down any of my barrels. 90% alcohol and Murphy's oil soap is the closest they get to water. 60/40 is my mixture.

grouse · « **Reply #17 on:** February 25, 2009, 02:52:52 PM »

Quote from: sabotloader on February 25, 2009, 01:01:17 PM

grouse
Additional thought - thumbing through the new Cabelas Shooting flyer they have the Tipton Carbon Fiber Rods (XZ-229536-027 for a 270/45 cal rod) for $30 - that is the least expensive I have seen them.

Thanks, you reminded me of something also. Cabelas is charging $27.00 bucks for 777.

sabotloader · « **Reply #18 on:** February 25, 2009, 03:38:11 PM »

grouse

Quote

Cabelas is charging $27.00 bucks for 777

That goes back to the discussion we had the other day.... Also and I do not know why T7 seems to be more expensive in the east than it is here. Black Sheep SG has it here for $19.00, Sportsman Wharehouse has it for $23 - course I get it for $15 @ the end of the year at Wal-Mart.

Quote

How much 777 does it take to get a 300grn bullet to 2000fps? How much BH209 does it take to get a 300grn bullet to 2000fps

That depends on 2f or 3f T7... with 3f there is not that much difference

Shooting a Knight Disk Ex with a 300 grain bullet...

With a 100 grains of BH 1908 fps
With a 100 grains of T7-3f 1896 fps
With a 100 grains of T7-2f 1760 fps

Here is a target shot with BH from Rem 700 with velocities across a 'Pro Chrono' @ 15'

Toby did a comparison not to long ago also....

http://www.hpmuzzleloading.com/SpecialReport2.html

grouse · « **Reply #19 on:** February 25, 2009, 04:22:22 PM »

I actually cant read your target. Are the numbers close? Can you get 2000fps with a 300grn bullet using 777? You need to chrono that BH209 out of your extreme as well. 28" useable barrel right? Actually just wait till you get my elite.

sabotloader · « **Reply #20 on:** February 25, 2009, 04:44:45 PM »

grouse

Sent you the targets via email they might be more clear....

grouse · « **Reply #21 on:** February 25, 2009, 05:09:24 PM »

Quote from: sabotloader on February 25, 2009, 04:44:45 PM

grouse

Sent you the targets via email they might be more clear....

They look pretty equal, but a slight edge to BH209. Do you have any 200grn SST'S?

sabotloader · « **Reply #22 on:** February 25, 2009, 05:17:28 PM »

grouse

I can not believe that I am saying this... but - they look close but still there are advantages to BH that T7 will not be able to match. Especially if you are just moving from centerfire to ML's, you would be a lot cloaser to your normal world...

No I do not have any 200 grain SST's or SW's... (just 200 grain XTP's and 10mm/180 grain Gold Dots) I am thinking about picking some up next time i am Kennewick to shoot in the Triumph you are sending.

grouse · « **Reply #23 on:** February 25, 2009, 05:33:26 PM »

Quote from: sabotloader on February 25, 2009, 05:17:28 PM

grouse
No I do not have any 200 grain SST's or SW's... (just 200 grain XTP's and 10mm/180 grain Gold Dots) I am thinking about picking some up next time i am Kennewick to shoot in the Triumph you are sending.

No dont, i got way to many. I will mail them this week.