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Offline Questor

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AP fact check of the lies last night.
« on: February 25, 2009, 02:59:00 AM »
FACT CHECK: Obama's words on home aid ring hollow
By CALVIN WOODWARD and JIM KUHNHENN – 3 hours ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Barack Obama knows Americans are unhappy that their taxes will be used to rescue people who bought mansions beyond their means.

But his assurance Tuesday night that only the deserving will get help rang hollow.

Even officials in his administration, many supporters of the plan in Congress and the Federal Reserve chairman expect some of that money will go to people who used lousy judgment.

The president skipped over several complex economic circumstances in his speech to Congress — and may have started an international debate among trivia lovers and auto buffs over what country invented the car.

A look at some of his assertions:

OBAMA: "We have launched a housing plan that will help responsible families facing the threat of foreclosure lower their monthly payments and refinance their mortgages. It's a plan that won't help speculators or that neighbor down the street who bought a house he could never hope to afford, but it will help millions of Americans who are struggling with declining home values."

THE FACTS: If the administration has come up with a way to ensure money only goes to those who got in honest trouble, it hasn't said so.

Defending the program Tuesday at a Senate hearing, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke said it's important to save those who made bad calls, for the greater good. He likened it to calling the fire department to put out a blaze caused by someone smoking in bed.

"I think the smart way to deal with a situation like that is to put out the fire, save him from his own consequences of his own action but then, going forward, enact penalties and set tougher rules about smoking in bed."

Similarly, the head of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. suggested this month it's not likely aid will be denied to all homeowners who overstated their income or assets to get a mortgage they couldn't afford.

"I think it's just simply impractical to try to do a forensic analysis of each and every one of these delinquent loans," Sheila Bair told National Public Radio.

___

OBAMA: "And I believe the nation that invented the automobile cannot walk away from it."

THE FACTS: Depends what your definition of automobiles, is. According to the Library of Congress, the inventor of the first true automobile was probably Germany's Karl Benz, who created the first auto powered by an internal combustion gasoline engine, in 1885 or 1886. In the U.S., Charles Duryea tested what library researchers called the first successful gas-powered car in 1893. Nobody disputes that Henry Ford created the first assembly line that made cars affordable.

___

OBAMA: "We have known for decades that our survival depends on finding new sources of energy. Yet we import more oil today than ever before."

THE FACTS: Oil imports peaked in 2005 at just over 5 billion barrels, and have been declining slightly since. The figure in 2007 was 4.9 billion barrels, or about 58 percent of total consumption. The nation is on pace this year to import 4.7 billion barrels, and government projections are for imports to hold steady or decrease a bit over the next two decades.

___

OBAMA: "We have already identified $2 trillion in savings over the next decade."

THE FACTS: Although 10-year projections are common in government, they don't mean much. And at times, they are a way for a president to pass on the most painful steps to his successor, by putting off big tax increases or spending cuts until someone else is in the White House.

Obama only has a real say on spending during the four years of his term. He may not be president after that and he certainly won't be 10 years from now.

___

OBAMA: "Regulations were gutted for the sake of a quick profit at the expense of a healthy market. People bought homes they knew they couldn't afford from banks and lenders who pushed those bad loans anyway. And all the while, critical debates and difficult decisions were put off for some other time on some other day."

THE FACTS: This may be so, but it isn't only Republicans who pushed for deregulation of the financial industries. The Clinton administration championed an easing of banking regulations, including legislation that ended the barrier between regular banks and Wall Street banks. That led to a deregulation that kept regular banks under tight federal regulation but extended lax regulation of Wall Street banks. Clinton Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin, later an economic adviser to candidate Obama, was in the forefront in pushing for this deregulation.

___

OBAMA: "In this budget, we will end education programs that don't work and end direct payments to large agribusinesses that don't need them. We'll eliminate the no-bid contracts that have wasted billions in Iraq, and reform our defense budget so that we're not paying for Cold War-era weapons systems we don't use. We will root out the waste, fraud and abuse in our Medicare program that doesn't make our seniors any healthier, and we will restore a sense of fairness and balance to our tax code by finally ending the tax breaks for corporations that ship our jobs overseas."

THE FACTS: First, his budget does not accomplish any of that. It only proposes those steps. That's all a president can do, because control over spending rests with Congress. Obama's proposals here are a wish list and some items, including corporate tax increases and cuts in agricultural aid, will be a tough sale in Congress.

Second, waste, fraud and abuse are routinely targeted by presidents who later find that the savings realized seldom amount to significant sums. Programs that a president might consider wasteful have staunch defenders in Congress who have fought off similar efforts in the past.

___

OBAMA: "Thanks to our recovery plan, we will double this nation's supply of renewable energy in the next three years."

THE FACTS: While the president's stimulus package includes billions in aid for renewable energy and conservation, his goal is unlikely to be achieved through the recovery plan alone.

In 2007, the U.S. produced 8.4 percent of its electricity from renewable sources, including hydroelectric dams, solar panels and windmills. Under the status quo, the Energy Department says, it will take more than two decades to boost that figure to 12.5 percent.

If Obama is to achieve his much more ambitious goal, Congress would need to mandate it. That is the thrust of an energy bill that is expected to be introduced in coming weeks.

___

OBAMA: "Over the next two years, this plan will save or create 3.5 million jobs."

THE FACTS: This is a recurrent Obama formulation. But job creation projections are uncertain even in stable times, and some of the economists relied on by Obama in making his forecast acknowledge a great deal of uncertainty in their numbers.

The president's own economists, in a report prepared last month, stated, "It should be understood that all of the estimates presented in this memo are subject to significant margins of error."

Beyond that, it's unlikely the nation will ever know how many jobs are saved as a result of the stimulus. While it's clear when jobs are abolished, there's no economic gauge that tracks job preservation. The estimates are based on economic assumptions of how many jobs would be lost without the stimulus.

Associated Press writers Tom Raum, Ricardo Alonso-Zaldivar and Dina Cappiello contributed to this story.
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Offline skifastchad

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Re: AP fact check of the lies last night.
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2009, 03:16:18 AM »
Not only the automobile, but he said that our country invented solar technology too.

Sorry Barack, that was done 180 years ago in France.

Offline magooch

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Re: AP fact check of the lies last night.
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2009, 03:20:06 AM »
Well yeah, it was a campaign speech.  Anyone who believed any of what he said will actully come to pass is living in their own little world.  

The stupid bastard still believes in global warming.  That's all anyone needs to know about his reality.
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Offline ms

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Re: AP fact check of the lies last night.
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2009, 08:28:33 AM »
Well yeah, it was a campaign speech.  Anyone who believed any of what he said will actully come to pass is living in their own little world.  

The stupid bastard still believes in global warming.  That's all anyone needs to know about his reality.
Ha Ha  :D

Offline bilmac

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Re: AP fact check of the lies last night.
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2009, 08:54:05 AM »
He's a Democrat, if his lips were moving he was lying.

Offline Guy Pike

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Re: AP fact check of the lies last night.
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2009, 09:58:56 AM »
He's not even legally the President of the United States.
You can't beat a Cerberus!

Offline slim rem 7

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Re: AP fact check of the lies last night.
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2009, 11:45:45 AM »
 good question .. what approach would you take tm7

Offline Oldshooter

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Re: AP fact check of the lies last night.
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2009, 11:57:13 AM »
Well for one thing if my family was going down for the count financially. I would not come home and yell hey we are going bankrupt! SO LETS GO TO THE MALL !

But then the stimulus is going to help small business did you hear the Chia pet VP say that it will help small business by building a bridge across the creek so a business owner can get to work. And if they are having difficulty making ends meet the stimulus will put a new thermostat in for them to save money on electricity!

SO much BS so little credability !

And one more thing if i may this method that the new administration is using has been tried before in this country and in japan when they went south financially. It was called the lost decade there and the depression here!
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: AP fact check of the lies last night.
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2009, 11:58:53 AM »
Hands off. Leave it alone and let the market sort itself out.

Take less of the people's money and stop the waste.


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Offline bilmac

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Re: AP fact check of the lies last night.
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2009, 12:01:00 PM »
Cut taxes that's what Regan did, that's what Kennidy did. It works.

Offline Guy Pike

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Re: AP fact check of the lies last night.
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2009, 12:14:35 PM »
Regulate the mortgage industry so that one doesn't have to pay 3 times the value of the home to own it.
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Offline Questor

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Re: AP fact check of the lies last night.
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2009, 12:44:24 PM »
Drop the tax rates for corporations and small businesses, allow failing banks to fail, allow home owners with subprime mortgages to fail (thus becoming renters again), and apply any aid in a focused manner to solve specific problems. For example, state-specific aid to extend unemployment benefits based on proof that a determined effort is being made to find a job-- any job, not just a job within a person's chosen career.

And just as importantly, I would not lie to the people so viciously. I would also maintain an upbeat tone.

For any of you ex-military types (thanks for your service), how would you have felt going into a tough situation with a leader who said things like "Oh man, we're gonna get killed!"?
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Offline mechanic

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Re: AP fact check of the lies last night.
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2009, 02:13:40 PM »
Obama, and all those others with him and so many before him took an oath to uphold and defend the constitution.  If they did so, they could not legally do what they are doing.  They have no legal right to take one man's money, no matter how much he has, and give it to another.  They have no right to offer money to the states, with strings attached.  We have moved so far from our founder's that they would not recognize us today as a country they established.

Bill is right.  If a business fails, it fails.  Giving it billions to lose aren't going to help.  Let the market work, and it will.  Things might be painful for some for a while, but in the long run better for all.

I live in LaGrange, Troup County, Ga.   We are a small group compared to many.  Just the other week I sat and listed the businesses and industries that I know of within 60 mi. of here that have gone overseas, or gone out because of competition from China.  I've come up with 116 on my list so far.

Its hard to live in a house and compete with a man in a mud hut.
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Offline Redtail1949

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Re: AP fact check of the lies last night.
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2009, 04:58:37 PM »
Nothing that they do will stop the pain from coming only delay it. So as bad as it sounds keep out other than emergency funds to stop a total rapid collapse of the financial system. By the way that is what bush did.

The pain will be severe and will last 2-3 years and many many people will be hurt and many will suffer. Just now way out of it. Let the system sort it out and it will.

Interference will prolong the pain for as long as 10 years. Pay me now or pay me later...but you will damn sure pay me.

Offline bilmac

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Re: AP fact check of the lies last night.
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2009, 11:29:14 PM »
Just occurred to me, What is the media doing checking up on the Messiah's facts? I thought they were there only to prove whatever he says is right and true.

They are saying that the news sources that had Obama mania at election time are loosing their readers/viewers bigtime. Could it be that they are figuring out that their jobs could go by-by too? Too bad they didn't get this zeal for truth BEFORE THE ELECTION.

Now they're trying to look "fair". So they are making sure that The Anointed One doesn't mistake who invented cars but they still continue to obscure the fact of just how huge this bailout is, and that it has nothing to do with jobs and everything to do with every cockamamy spending idea the Dems. ever had.

Offline mechanic

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Re: AP fact check of the lies last night.
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2009, 12:58:26 AM »
If we count by seconds........."one thousand one", etc.  it will take 37 years to count to a million.  It will take 37,000 years to count to a billion, it will take 37,000,000 years to count to a trillion.  Oh well, I won't get to finish I guess.  What a gift for my grandkids, debt in the trillions.
Molon Labe, (King Leonidas of the Spartan Army)

Offline LONGTOM

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Re: AP fact check of the lies last night.
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2009, 03:18:54 AM »
If I had to decied how to get us out of this mess the first things I would do is-

1- Oass and use the line item veto on anything that did not directly help the country, ie: cut out all the pork from both sides.

2- freeze all paychecks to congress untill we are out of this mess, I beleave just about anyone could live very comfortably on what they get!

3- MANDATE that both the HOUSE & SENATE has 15 minutes to vote on a bill once it comes up for said vote!!!
This crap of taking up to 1.5 hours to vote on something that has already been argued needs to stop.
Give them 15 minutes and that's it.
If you didn't get to vote-TOUGH, the next time you will be a little faster.
Maybe then they could get things done.

4- Mandate that they vote on a bill that has been hashed out between them with out ANY EARMARKS or ADD ONS!
If you want something than bring it up on its own, don't tack it on to some other bill.

5- Cut taxes where possible, be it large or small business, rich or poor.

6- Try to cut out all of the needless programs that the government now has.
If it doesn't help the economy then its got to go!

7- Enact term limits for all congressmen, maybe then they would do the will of the people instead of the will of the pocketbook.

8- Defend our bourders.
If you are illegal you don't get in!
If you are already here illegally then you will be sent back home, and to help do this, if you do not pay legal taxes you will get no benifits of any kind.
No health care, no food stamps, no schools for your kids.
Cut out the freebees and they will leave!

9- Demand a balanced budget for congress!
You can't spend more than you take in.

10- QUIT TRYING TO SUPPORT THE WORLD!
We can't even support our own country.

There is no end to this list and all of the 10 listed could be expanded upon but this is a start.

I know it would never happen because our so called leader and  representatives in congress would never allow it and that my friends is the main problem!

If the government had to live the way we do you can bet the farm they would be doing these things and much more.
It's time the FAT CAT goes on a diet!!!

Feel free to add on or correct where needed.


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Offline skifastchad

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Re: AP fact check of the lies last night.
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2009, 03:29:48 AM »
If we count by seconds........."one thousand one", etc.  it will take 37 years to count to a million.  It will take 37,000 years to count to a billion, it will take 37,000,000 years to count to a trillion.  Oh well, I won't get to finish I guess.  What a gift for my grandkids, debt in the trillions.

Its still a gift for the grandkids, but I have to check that democrat math.
It will only take 11 days, 13 hours, 46 minutes and 40 seconds to count to a million.
To count to a billion it will take 31 years, 8 and a half months.  A trillion is approx 31710 years.

Offline bilmac

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Re: AP fact check of the lies last night.
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2009, 03:50:50 AM »
Longtom for President      I especially like term limits for congress. We were supposed to have had a government made up of citizens. What we have is a government made up of professional politicians, most of whom are lawyers by training and most of whom have long long ago forgotten what it is to earn a living in the private sector.

Offline magooch

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Re: AP fact check of the lies last night.
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2009, 04:00:17 AM »
There is no such thing as a "line item veto."

If I were President I would declare a national emergency and first on the list of things to be done would be to get rid of all the illegal aliens.  That right there would create millions of jobs.  Next, I would eliminate all but a couple cabinet positions and do the best I could to eliminate the departments they headed.  And last, I would veto every spending bill and most everything else that Congress generated.

Oh, and one more thing; I would declare "global warming" the farce that it is.

None of any of that would be much of a stimulus, except maybe the first action, but neither will the berserk spending that this idiot President and Congress are doing.
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Offline mechanic

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Re: AP fact check of the lies last night.
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2009, 12:04:37 PM »
If we count by seconds........."one thousand one", etc.  it will take 37 years to count to a million.  It will take 37,000 years to count to a billion, it will take 37,000,000 years to count to a trillion.  Oh well, I won't get to finish I guess.  What a gift for my grandkids, debt in the trillions.

Its still a gift for the grandkids, but I have to check that democrat math.
It will only take 11 days, 13 hours, 46 minutes and 40 seconds to count to a million.
To count to a billion it will take 31 years, 8 and a half months.  A trillion is approx 31710 years.


You are correct.  Should have checked my math.  Still quite a long time.  The idea was to help us wrap our mind around how much a trillion really is.
Molon Labe, (King Leonidas of the Spartan Army)

Offline Oldshooter

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Re: AP fact check of the lies last night.
« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2009, 12:11:10 PM »
Quote
wrap our mind around how much a trillion really is.

not sure I have enough mind to wrap it that thin!  :D
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Offline LONGTOM

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Re: AP fact check of the lies last night.
« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2009, 02:54:07 PM »
Quote
There is no such thing as a "line item veto."

You are correct magooch, I should have said pass and use.
It has been corrected.

Thanks
LONGTOM
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That my two young sons may never have to know the horrors of war. 

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Offline Cabin4

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Re: AP fact check of the lies last night.
« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2009, 03:18:58 PM »
We're going to take all your money through taxation, create non-producing jobs with it so you will beholding to US.  Ha Ha Ha

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Offline jcn59

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Re: AP fact check of the lies last night.
« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2009, 06:04:54 PM »
Did anyone suggest raising tarriffs on imports while reducing the taxes we have to pay?
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Offline Cabin4

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Re: AP fact check of the lies last night.
« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2009, 06:18:19 PM »
Did anyone suggest raising tarriffs on imports while reducing the taxes we have to pay?

The only thing that will accomplish is a rise in prices for consumers and business, inflation and retaliation of the same from the countries sending goods to the US.
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Offline mirage1988

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Re: AP fact check of the lies last night.
« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2009, 06:23:59 PM »
Like Toyota and Honda, a price increase in imports would be a bad thing how?, It might actually increase sales of AMERICAN made trucks and cars?

Sounds like a sensible stimulus package to me!- but it didn't cost a trillion dollars though-

Offline Cabin4

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Re: AP fact check of the lies last night.
« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2009, 07:10:23 PM »
Like Toyota and Honda, a price increase in imports would be a bad thing how?, It might actually increase sales of AMERICAN made trucks and cars?

Sounds like a sensible stimulus package to me!- but it didn't cost a trillion dollars though-

Nearly 100% of those cars are made right here in the USA and they are employing American workers in southern and mid western assembly plants. Taffifs would do nearly nothing in this case.

Tarrifs can cut both ways. If the USA puts a tarrif in place, then other countries follow suite in retaliation for the export of our goods.
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Offline Cabin4

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Re: AP fact check of the lies last night.
« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2009, 03:12:09 AM »
No, its just plain and simple economics and marketing strategy rule from an individual company business standpoint. If a foreign car company can make cars here for equal or lesser value then off-shore, they will make the cars here. If not they won't. Let the econmy figure this out and keep the feds & government out of it unless there are unfair trade practices by a particular country that we trade with. Then I think the concept of a tarrif fair game. We already have duties & taxes that apply to imported goods but the concept of a tarrif is about penelizing certain goods. Penalties are a 2 way street and just look at countries like Brazil, Columbia, India, Argentina. They employ domestic protection trade practices that levy heavy taxes & tarrifs on imported goods. Their economies are a joke and completly controllled by politicians and government policy.
Avery Hayden Wallace
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Offline jcn59

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Re: AP fact check of the lies last night.
« Reply #29 on: February 27, 2009, 04:23:08 AM »
A couple things would happen with tarriffs.  First it would have to accompanied by a substantial reduction in taxes.    It would force the chinese retailers like Walmart to search for domestic goods. That would result in more American jobs.  (More American manufacturing jobs would be good for the U.S., right).   Note these are good jobs, not $12,000 a year burger flipp'n jobs.  This will further increase the buying power of U.S. workers as well as bolster the tax base.

As far as increased tarriffs on U.S. exports goes, I betcha the Chinese and others already tarriff the urine out of our goods to keep us out.

The greater picture is more important than all this, though.   What do you suppose will happen to our national security and military superiority  if we continue to ship our wealth to China and OPEC?

THAT IS WHY WE MUST BRING MANUFACTURING BACK HOME AND STOP THE FLOW OF OUR DOLLARS OUT OF THE U.S..
Vote them all out, EVERY election!
 
Does anyone remember the scene from "Quigley Down Under" showing the aborigines lined up on the skyline as far as you could see?   That needs to be US!
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