Author Topic: Thoughts from a Hardcore Dogman from waaaay back. And a question.  (Read 2733 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline GeorgiaDave

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 186
  • Gender: Male
Hello from the Great State of Georgia,

   I have been involved with working dogs my whole life, now almost 40 years. This has been mostly in a hunting perspective. Although other areas interest me, this post is solely about hunting dogs. Man has been helped by dogs since long before recorded history. A canine has senses that are far superior to man, and when put together with the intelligence of a hunter, can provide results far more productive than either on their own. This partnership is on the most primitive level yet can be developed into some cutting edge tactics that are undeniably effective. I would like to list a few of the dog hunting areas I have been involved with and show just how versitle the dog world is.

   1. Deer Hunting
       Although I personally do not like running deer dogs they do indeed work. I have seen some really efficient hunters and some buffoons with dogs. The goal is to drive the deer from a chosen ares and have them cross in front of standers who usually have shotguns with buckshot. The dogs will chase any deer they come across and really do stir up the woods. The main problem with this is that dogs lack the ability to read POSTED signs and frequently trespass. This in turn violates the ethics of property respect. I have frequently heard dog hunters refered to as lazy, but hey, it is effective. I do not like the quality of meat from a deer that has spent it's last moments running for it's life. Just my opinion.Most popular breeds for this are the Beagles and other various hounds.

   2. Coon Hunting
         I love to go coon hunting with a good group of hunters. This has always been about the dogs more than the coons. Some hunters harvest the coons, and I do believe that if you reward the dogs with the opportunity to finish off their adversary, they tend to keep their fire. A good night in the swamp with some good hunters yelling and well bred dogs baying is quite rewarding.Most guys use Walkers, Blue Ticks, and Red Bones.

    3. Rabbit Hunting
         While still hunting rabbits can work, nothing can compare with loosing a pack of Beagles in some good habitat. The bunnies are no match for a well bred rabbit dog. The hunter has to do his part but I will promise you, the dog will do his. As long as the dog does not go off on a deer trail, they will flush the rabbit and give the hunter the chance for a harvest. A man simply can not go where the dogs can, especially when you consider the "9 inch Beagles" that some guys use to actually run down the little "bunny trails" This is the most basic of hunting with dogs and I love it.

     4.Bird Hunting (upland)
         I have hunted Quails behind some of the best dogs on this planet. I live near Waynesboro GA which is the " Bird dog capitol of the world". There are some dogs around here which have sold for more than my house costs. The Dogmen involved in this ares keep records rivaling the best of geneology societies. A well bred pointer or spaniel will work with an efficiency that is spellbinding. It does not take long hunting around this caliber of dogs to understand that they are indeed an invaluable tool and masters of their art. Again this type of hunting is almost totaly about the dogs. Sure they harvest some game, but the real show is the dogs. The hunters learn to trust the dogs and once the partnership is forged, the dogs will work as long as they are asked and quit only when told to. There are many types of pointers and spaniels, but the most versitile seems to be the German Pointers, and Brittany Spaniels.

     5. Bird Hunting (waterfowl)
            This is one type of hunting I have mostly missed out on. I have been a few times, but do not have it bad like so many others do. Still, the dogs in this area are indeed a specialized tool. A good retriever will willingly jump into freezing water, swim out to the bird, take it in his mouth and bring it back to the blind. There are few people who would be willing to do that !!! A dogs ability to "mark" downed birds is amazing. I actually know a Lab named Gunner who will swim out and gather two or three birds at once. These dogs see that opportunity as a reward. They are undoubtedly dedicated to their handlers. Most are loyal and productive members of their families when not working. Labs, Chessies, and Portugese Water Dogs all excell at this. As an interesting side note, the Poodle was invented to do this type of work and the silly looking "poodle cut" was designed to reduce drag in the water, while leaving fur over the joints to help keep them warm.

     6. Ratting and Varmints.
           This has been going on for thousands of years going back to Roman times. A small fierce terrier will attack small furry animals with little or no training. They work in packs to kill vermin that is harmfull to man. They have been used effectively on everything from mice and rats up to badgers and weasles. A terrier who is on fire simply WILL NOT STOP until their adversary is dead or they are. They have also been used to flush foxes out of a hole so that the hounds could chase them some more. As a working dog, they are as hardcore as any other dogs on the planet. Even the yappy little Yorkie was once a working dog, but not anymore. Irish, Pattredale, Airdale, and Bedlington terriers all still work well.

     7. Coursing
           Begining in Africa thousands of years ago, sight hounds were used to chase down and catch antelopes, hares and all types of deer. Just think about it, a dog that will actually run down and CATCH a fleet footed animal. A man has no chance on his own, but with several well trained dogs he can harvest game that would otherwise simply laugh as they sped away. Salukis, Pharoh Hounds and the master Greyhounds all are speed demons. I recently saw a video of a dog named Speed, who ran down a coyote and killed it while the guys were driving behind in a Range Rover at around 40 mph. Very effective and exciting.

    8.Squirrel Hunting
         This is one of my favorite displays of a dogs natural hunting ability. A good tree squirrel dog will tree them all day long and with an accuracy that is astounding. They take this job seriously and give the hunter an advantage they can use on every hunt. Some actually sight hunt while others scent hunt. They are no doubt diligent hunters who are easy to train and most will hunt until their late years. Rat Teriers, Fiest, and all types of curs excell at this type of hunting.

     9. Predator Hunting
            Now this is intense !! Consider the predator becoming the prey. Bears and mountain lions here in North America. Lions, and Leopards in Africa. This takes a very special type of dog. Not as breed specific as other hunting, but determined more by ability. There are a few breeds that have been bred to hunt predators. The Karelian Bear Dog is known for their detest for bears and with their lightning fast reflexes good nose and unmeasurable bravery they do their job well. Few dogs have the type of nerves to go up against such a beast. In Africa, the Rhodesian Ridgeback has been used for generations to track and bay up LIONS !!! His is a job that NO MAN could ever do !! Even lions and other big cats can be bayed by several big, mean, nasty snarling dogs.

    10. Pig Hunting
           Finally ! My favorite display of canine ability. I have been around pig hunting with dogs my entire life. The methods differ from one region to another, and even from one hunter to another but the basics are the same. Once pigs are located in an area, the trail/bay dogs are loosed. After finding the pigs and baying them up, the hunters close in on the pigs. This is usually a barking, baying, squeeling, thrashing fight scene that IS NOT for the faint of heart or those scared of loud noises ! Once the scene is assesed, the catch dogs are loosed and THEN the fight is ON !! A good bunch of catch dogs that all know their job can handle any pig on Earth. However, a big old nasty boar hog can in turn kill any dog on the planet. So there it is in front of you. The most basic fight for survival. Pigs against a hunter and his dogs. Some hunters simply shoot the pigs, but the guys I hunt with choose to catch them and bring them out alive. This is INTENSE ! It goes without saying that the pigs do not want to be caught. Yet, when a hard biting dog has a pig by the hock, and another has an ear, and then the "closer" comes in and gets a full HARD bite on the nose, it is the Hunter who decides the pig's fate. Duct Tape use #743. Taping up a pig for removal. This is another type of hunting where the breed matters less that the individual dog's heart. However for a dog to catch and handle a pig, they must have the physical strength and mental stability to ignore discomfort and complete the task. Pit Bulls, and American Bulldogs are generally used for catching while all types are used for trailing and baying.

   This is an example of the wide diversity of canine ability to help man hunt. There are others left unmentioned, but I am sure that everyone who has ever hunted has at least a casual knowledge of the assistance that can be given by a dog. I am a Dogman from way back. I love working dogs and will have one until me last breath. I feel blessed to have been brought up around dogs and I will always do what I can to promote dogs in a positive way. As more people try to outlaw hunting, I challenge them to explain to me exactly how mankind has advanced to where we are today without having hunted. And most likely those who hunted had some help from a trusted friend and accomplice in the form af a hunting dog. God Bless You All.

Dave
p.s. oops, forgot to add the question. How many of you
have had the opportunity to share a hunt with a hunting
dog and how did it go ?
"Firepower is one carefully placed shot, just make sure that it leaves a big hole."

Offline WesinND

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 26
Re: Thoughts from a Hardcore Dogman from waaaay back. And a question.
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2009, 03:46:08 PM »
I have had the good fortune to share a few hunts with dogs beginning with coon hounds -- blueticks and black and tans years ago.  I didn't know much about dogs back then, but they were what the hunt was all about.  I didn't have dogs during most of my military career because I didn't feel it would be fair to them, I wouldn't be home enough to hunt them as much as they deserved. I continued to read everything I could on hunting dogs and finally ended up with a Deutcsh Drahthaar.  We have hunted dove, grouse, pheasants, ducks, geese, rabbits and squirrels.  He is 6 years old now and I just got another DD pup to train. 

Deer Hunting:  You can hunt deer with a DD, but the work is done after the shot, and only if you lose the animal and cannot follow the blood trail by sight.  While I have not personally trained my dogs to blood track deer, the sire and dam of both my dogs have successfully recovered big game animals.

Rabbit Hunting:  Although not traditional, I use my DDs to track and move rabbits.  They are excellent at recovering and retrieving them as well. This is and older female, my 6 year old male's mother, I had the priviledge of having for the last 6 months of her life:



Bird hunting: We hunt prairie grouse and and pheasant.  Nothing like it here in the Dakotas.  Harry was hunting in front of 5 of us:


Waterfowl:  We hunt ducks and geese.  One of my best memories was a goose hunt.  Two geese were knocked down, Harry ran for a cripple, caught it and shook it, saw the other goose get up and start running, dropped the first one, ran and caught the second and came back to the first one and stood on it until we could get out of the blinds to get them. 


Vermin:  We have ground squirrels here that get into everything, he will catch and kill them on sight. If one gets into the garage, I just call him and tell him "kill it",  I don't have any pictures of that!

I don't predator hunt with them, but here's another picture of BeeGee, this time with a fox:


They are pretty versatile, but I probably wouldn't hunt near as much if I didn't have the dogs. Oh and lastly,  Here is my new pup:






Offline lil_hunter12

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 508
Re: Thoughts from a Hardcore Dogman from waaaay back. And a question.
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2009, 04:21:59 PM »
i have been involved with hunting with dogs for my whole life only about 18 years. i love coon hunting with the hounds there is nothing anywhere in the world quite like it. rabbit hunting is also very fun. i love to squirrel hunt also with my jack russel it just cant be beat to watch the dogs working.

Offline Old Fart

  • Intergalactic Moderator
  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (77)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3851
  • Gender: Male
Re: Thoughts from a Hardcore Dogman from waaaay back. And a question.
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2009, 10:59:39 AM »
I hunted dogs for years when I was younger. To many late nights out chasing coons and to many afternoons hunting rabbits and squirrels. Had many a chase on coyotes. Old knees are shot now. I may take up beagle hunting if my wife will let me keep them hounds at home. I'm thinking probably not, but they're about all I could keep up with if I hunted a big field and let them chase the bunnies back up to me.
"All my life I've had a bad case of the Fred's. Fredrick Vanderbilt taste on a Fred Sanford budget." CR
Lifetime/Endowment/Patron NRA Member.
Second Amendment Foundation, www.saf.org - Life Member

Offline SHOOTALL

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23836
Re: Thoughts from a Hardcore Dogman from waaaay back. And a question.
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2009, 11:10:25 AM »
I would rather hunt with a dog anyday .
How did it go ? better than with out one ! alot better .
Hound music beats anything on the radio . Shooting birds is ok but finding them is better for the dog before and after the shot .
Duck hunt in cold ice filled water with out one FORGET IT !!!!!!!!!

Land owner rights I understand alright . BUT the critter can't read either and they cross ! If the hunter who can read respects the sign we are doing what we can . In our state it is the responsiblity of the land owner to put up a fence to keep un wanted livestock off his land ( yep dosen't sound right but its the law - a guy got shot over it a few years ago ) anyway maybe it should apply to dogs ya don't want um put up a fence .
JMHO !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline RB Rooson

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 330
  • Gender: Male
  • "If you come for mine, be sure to bring yours!"
    • http://www.ptca.00go.com
Re: Thoughts from a Hardcore Dogman from waaaay back. And a question.
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2010, 03:54:59 AM »
http://www.ptca.00go.com/patterdale_pictures.html

The above site features a breed that I have hunted with for years.  Using both Jack Russells and Patterdales over the two decades, I have had tons of enjoyment and success.

Just got back from Wild Boar hunting in Germany and the Patterdales did very well.
SASS #16974 - Duelist
SBSS # 1195 (O.G.B.) LXXIX
BOLD # 352

"Everyday I pray to be the man that my dog thinks I am!"

Offline victorcharlie

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3573
Re: Thoughts from a Hardcore Dogman from waaaay back. And a question.
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2010, 07:40:05 AM »
I've raised, trained, field trialed, and hunted beagles from the early 80's forward; bread my hounds for 6 generations.

After what happened with Mike Vick, I'm down to two dogs and when they die I'll probably not have anymore dogs.
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Tolerance in the face of tyranny is no virtue."
Barry Goldwater

Offline Daman

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 716
  • Gender: Male
  • Me and Papa's first double!!!
Re: Thoughts from a Hardcore Dogman from waaaay back. And a question.
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2010, 04:24:36 AM »
I squirrel hunt with a Mountain Feist. He is very smart and persistent and makes squirrel hunting a real joy. I would like to get another Red Bone like the one I used to have and do some squirrel hunting and blood trailing with him.

Daman
Live simple. Hunt Hard. Love Life.

I thank God everyday for my loving wife and all the fond memories of hunting with my Papa from a child until now.

Please take time to take a kid hunting, it will be a life long memory and blessing for both of you!

Offline parisite

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 75
  • Gender: Male
Re: Thoughts from a Hardcore Dogman from waaaay back. And a question.
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2011, 04:08:15 PM »
My Dad always had 20-40 Walker coyote hounds. We would meet up with other hunter's cast the hounds a little after dark and they would run coyotes all night long and not just loaf but the hounds would run  and drive their game hard. Sometimes they would catch, sometimes not but we would sit and listen to a LOT of hound running. We would try and cut off and catch the hounds after the sun came up the next morning.  Great times, great memories!

Here is a pic of a Walker American Foxhound (technically the name of the breed)   at an AKC show.

Friends don't let friends buy BSA scopes.

Offline Qaz

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 296
Re: Thoughts from a Hardcore Dogman from waaaay back. And a question.
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2011, 03:26:32 AM »
I had a field spanial as a kid who was hell on Phesant and Quail and I could not have asked for a better dog to hunt them with. What I really enjoyed doing with him was courseing rabbits. We would go out in the evenings to a freshly mowed lot or field, find a rabbit, one person would hold the dog and the other get the rabbit to move. Once he was locked on to the rabbits position, he was released and the chase was on. Cotton tails not only run in a circle, but when the dog gets too close during the chase they squat down and the dog runs over him. I have watched many a beagle run right on over the rabbit. My dog knew the game and would snatch them up when they squated. I always thought he was good at this til a friend brought his whippit up, and then the rabbit really stood very little chance of escape!

Offline sidewinder319

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 634
Re: Thoughts from a Hardcore Dogman from waaaay back. And a question.
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2011, 04:20:08 AM »
Its too bad you left out the wonderful Setter Breeds. :(