219 D Wasp ?

[stimpylu32]

Does anyone load and shoot the old Wasp ? I'm working on a project Handi barrel for this round and wondered if anyone has any tricks for it .

stimpy

PS -- Those form dies arn't cheap . 

[LaOtto222]

I do not have any experience with it. I have thought about it in the past and as recently as the last two weeks. The cost of the forming dies have been a problem. You were not kidding when you said they are expensive. A RCBS set of forming dies - I think consist of 2 -3 of neck down dies and possibly a neck reamer die. I know they cost some where around $250 for a set. Then you have to get a regular set of dies on top of that. If you want to make a case straight from a 30-30 case you can get one die that will do that, for a considerably less amount - only $90 or so . I would think you would loose some cases however and maybe have to neck ream them as well when formed. You are doing a considerable amount of neck squeezing if you come from a 30-30 case. All that squeezing can form a ring or doughnut at the inside base of the neck. Some of the problem can be solved with a different case like a 25-35 or a Savage Hi-Power case. Of course these cases are not easy to get and they are not cheap when you do. The 219 D Wasp has a good reputation for accuracy and was the bench rest standard until the 222 Remington came on the scene. All the forming, reaming, trimming and then fire forming was a pain and the 222 was much simpler. Good Luck with a worthy project; it should be a real shooter when you git 'er done.

BTW have you thought about a 225 Winchester - still a rimmed case - cases can be bought and the dies are going to be cheaper as well. Of course everyone has a 225 and not many have a 219 D Wasp

[stimpylu32]

I've got just under $240 in the dies at this point , 2 Redding form dies and a set of FL sizer / seater , may be a few more weeks before I can ship the barrel out though .

This one should fit in nicely with my 22 Hornet , 224GNR , 223 Rem and 22 Rem Jet barrels , may even have to have another 218 Bee barrel done . 

I know of a few 225's and even a 219 Zippper but no Wasp yet .

stimpy

[guzzijohn]

I have a wasp in a Winchester Highwall. Although it has been several years ago, I bought brass already formed through one of the major suppliers, I think is was Buffalo Arms. I have seen the brass posted for sale on other sites. For the amount of powder used it is a great round. On a 50gr. bullet you can obtain a solid 3,400 FPS with modest amount of powder compared to other varmint rounds. The cases ought to be good for a number of reloadings. Reloading info is in some of the manuals and there are at least four or five websites that have info. Good luck!
GuzziJohn

[Double D]

If you have a lathe you can make a universal forming die and make you own wildcats.  I'll make this today's project and will post pictures on how to make this die later this after noon or evening.  Once you have one of these die you wonder why you didn't make one before.

I made my first one just make my own 219 Donalson Wasp brass. With mine I have formed several thousand 219 DW cases.  With Modification of the die I also have used it to reload my 404 Express for which I have no dies for.

[Double D]

I had to hunt all day to find this but finally did.  Here is a universal form die.


I took an old gunbarrel and turned a  3 1/2 in long cylinder section then threaded it 7/8-14. 


I drilled a 1/2 hole through the center.  Then I bored out the hole  just big enough for a pieced 5/8 drill rod to slip fit.  I bore this hole just 3 1/4 deep. Then I cut the 3 1/2 inch section off.



I made sizing  bushings and spacer bushings 1 inch long by 5/8 diameter.  I also made some 1/2 spacers. I also made a cap to hold everything in place.



The spacers I drilled out 1/2 inch.



For the Donaldson Wasp I made sizing bushings by drilling and reaming them out using chamber reamers. I made one .30 cal neck diameter, 7 MM neck, 6 mm neck and .219 Donaldson was neck.  I put the DW shoulder in the dies with the reamer.




To use these dies to make the Donaldson Wasp, I put in a short spacer, the 30 cal neck and shoulder former bushing, then a long spacer and the cap on top.  The long spacer is to hold the dies down in the body to be held by the cap.   When I had  my DW reamer made I also bought head space guages to headspace on the shoulder and not the rim.

So to adjust the die by putting the head space gauge on the shell holder and running the ram to the top.  Then I screw the sizing die down to contact the guage. I lower the ram and turn the die in another 1/8 turn and lock it.

This afternoon, to make a case instead of the guage I used a case i already had to set up.



First pass pushes the shoulder back.



Then the neck is reduced to 7mm neck, 6 mm neck and .219 Neck. by replacing the bushing. 



Most of the several thousand DW cases I made were trimmed to length with a Forster drill press trimmer.  I also made this cut off die by chambering a piece of die stock and cutting it off about 1/4 inch long.  I use this if I have just a few cases to  make. 



After trimming the cases I anneal necks and shoulder and full length size in the regular sizing die.  I fire form every case and then final full length trim and ream necks.

I built these dies 20 years agon and have formed a lot ocases with them. 

Here's the gun I built.



And the groups I got with it.



One of my next rifle projects is to build a DW on a Martini.


 


 

[LaOtto222]

Let's see - do I spend $3000 for a lathe or $300 for form dies...hmmmm. 

Very interesting and good work. I never gave it much thought - making my own dies. You have got the "OLD" wheels turning. If it wasn't for the shoulder part, you could use a regular neck die with bushings. I wonder if you could still do this with a 30 degree reamer/counter sink to cut the shoulder in the bushings, then polishing them to make it smooth. Food for thought. 

[Double D]

I thought everyone had a lathe?  You don't need a $3000 lathe to make these either.  Harbor freight has some small bench top lathes well under $1000 that would be good for small turning projects just like this.

I have made some of these inserts with a drill bit and polished with a emery stick. I have also just turned the compound at a angle to make a shoulder.  I used the DW reamer to make the parts for the the DW just because I had the reamer on hand.

[frankkj]

Stimpy:
I have done quite a bit of work with the 219 Donaldson Wasp, the original version. Be careful, seems Hornady printed some inaccurate info years ago which resulted in a longer case than the original.

I'm out of town at the moment, but will send you some info when I return. Made all my brass out of 219 Zipper cases, but now those aren't reasonable price-wise. EABCO offers the longer brass which can be run through the form dies and cutoff. Or if you have the Reddding dies, use 30-30 Brass.

Frank

[Reed1911]

This is the contact info for a very nice gent. that makes universal necking die sets, they are very reasonable in cost and well made. He is working on getting a larger set to market as well.
In full disclosure I own a small set and tested his large set, I liked it so much I copied it for myself.
Tell him we sent you and he will fix you up right away. Less expensive than RCBS and a heck of a lot more useful since it is not limited to one case.

http://www.shadetreeea.com/caseDieSet.html

[Catfish]

PO Ackley`s Handbook for Shooters & Reloaders has quite abite of data for the Wasp in it. His data is on the hot side and I would recomand you start a little lower. I`ll bring up the data I have to Lima early Sat. mron. If I don`t find you I`ll leave it with Bill.

[jedman]

 The way I have made case forming dies is , I take old or new sizing dies everywhere from 44 cal to 22 cal. and cut them down to what ever I need to do for me. I have bought new sizing die bodies without the neck expander from LEE and from HORNADY when I cant find old dies at gunshows or wherever but in general I have no more than 5 bucks in used dies and you can get them from LEE for about 10.  I have a lathe and just cut them back with a carbide tool but a person could cut them down with a hand grinder and get a working die that way, remember you dont have to get it a exact length when your just necking it down and pushing the shoulder backuntil you form it with the final die that you are going to fireform it with.
I am not saying this is the best way to form your brass but it works for me.
             Jedman

[moxgrove]

www.eabco.com has preformed .219 wasp brass for 55 bucks for a hundred. I would think that wouldn't be bad way to go. Of course where is the fun without the adventure?

[Double D]

Just be sure that the Ebco brass is the right length for you chamber.  As was noted the drawing in the Hornady manual is and erro, and error copied by a Sierra and Ebco at one time.

By the way I contacted Hornady one time about the error in the Manual and they told me there was no error.  I shared with them original Red Elliot drawing and pointed out that the erro was exactly .060 rim thickness.  The fellow I was talking with said he had the original brass from the test gun they used to establish their load data and he said he would check it and get back to me.  He did a few weeks later and said I was right, and they would correct the error in the next edition of the reloading manual. They didn't.

[gypsyman]

Have a 219DW in a BF No.1. Use 28gr. A.A.2015,Fed.210m primer, 50gr. V-Max. Redding dies will run you about $210 for the 2 form dies and the 3rd. form and trim die. I got all my brass from EABCO a few years ago. Works just fine in the BF.  gypsyman