Author Topic: Advice on purchasing my fist big bore rifle (Read 2040 times)

TScottO · « **on:** September 01, 2003, 04:35:51 PM »

Hey Guys,

For the last couple of years I've been bit by the big bore handgunbug. I guess it's time to add a rifle to the mix. I have a 44 magnum lever action but I want something more ooompth. I was thinking about a Ruger #1. I haven't ruled out lever guns or bolt guns either. What's everyones suggestion of caliber and platform: Lever, Bolt action, Single shot, 405 win, 416, 458, 45/70? I'll mainly hunt whitetail with it. I'm also hoping to go to Africa sometime down the road. This purchase probably wont be this year but I wanna start getting my ducks in a row.

Good luck and be safe,
Scott

markc · « **Reply #1 on:** September 02, 2003, 07:22:59 AM »

All of the calibers you mentioned could be used for your whitetail hunting, although they may be a bit much for thin skinned deer. Your .44 mag will do the trick unless you intend to be shooting long distances. If you have an opportunity, I would try to shoot each of the calibers you mentioned, and also do a good bit of research on each of those calibers as well as a few other big bores you didn't mention. Talk to folks who own firearms in those calibers and see what they think.

Folks have their preferences and will surely tell you their opinions. If you can come up with the $, get em all, one by one, year by year.
markc

1GLOCK · « **Reply #2 on:** September 02, 2003, 08:11:26 AM »

Marlin 1895 Guide Gun in 45/70. I love mine. If i didnt handload Id go with the 450 marlin mag though.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #3 on:** September 02, 2003, 08:12:05 AM »

I don't know much about the 405 although if I was in the market for another big bore I would do some research on that one. I don't really care for the 458. So that leaves the 45-70 or the 416 and one you did not mention the 444.

Out of all of these, 45-70 is my favorite, then the 444, then the 416.

The versatility of the 45-70 can't be beat.

Mikey · « **Reply #4 on:** September 02, 2003, 09:40:17 AM »

TScott0: Looking at your post I thought to myself - why not the 444? I would but, I've got three of them and handload and think it is quite capable. The Cor-Bon Cartridge guys hype their 444 loads as quite capable for African Big Game.

Just a few posts down in this forum is one on the 405 Winchester and one of the repsonders specified that in one article written this past spring, the author listed a 300 grain load at only 2200'/sec. You can do that easily with the 444. The article also siad the 405 was a bit underpowered for Africa but gee, Teddy used it and loved it, soooo....

Also, with the 444 you now have a bunch of different heavy loading that really make it much more than just a whitetail/black bear brush gun. There is lots of loading information on this caliber and it works very well as long as you do your job. I think I might ask Coug2wolves where a good place to hunt large boar hog would be just so I can try out some heavy loads and bring home some real bacon. Hope this helps. Mikey.

Lawdog · « **Reply #5 on:** September 02, 2003, 02:13:15 PM »

TScottO,

Quote

Lever, Bolt action, Single shot, 405 win, 416, 458, 45/70? I'll mainly hunt whitetail with it. I'm also hoping to go to Africa sometime down the road.

Seeing you want to go to Africa, even if it's someday, then you have to ask what you plan on hunting there? Also is the rifle you plan on taking legal in the area you want to hunt? I understand there are a few areas that won't let you use a lever action. If you are planning on hunting dangerous game then you don't want to be using single shot. I would suggest that you get a good bolt action in either the .416(Rem., Rigby or Weatherby - I went with the .416 Rigby here) or the .458(Winchester, Lott, etc.). The .458 Winchester Magnum has been around for a long time and if loaded right, will kill anything you will ever want to hunt. Many will tell you the Lott is the way to go but with gun experts like Jim Carmichel, Shooting Editor Outdoor Life Magazine, has used the .458 Winchester to take all of his elephants and most of the dangerous game he has taken, and Lionel Palmer, probably one of, if not the greatest of modern day lion hunters liked and used the .458 Winchester Magnum. Actually why not get a good .375 H&H Magnum in a good bolt action of your choice that you can use for everything? Lawdog

TScottO · « **Reply #6 on:** September 02, 2003, 03:57:39 PM »

The 375 HH is surely an option. I was wanting to use 300gr or greater. I just like big leads. I took a quick glance at a ballistic chart and the 375 is pretty impressive. Also the 416 Remington shoots a 400gr on par with the 300gr 375HH. I'm really up in the air about what exactly im going to get, claiber wise and platform wise. I was leaning towards the Ruger No. 1. It would give me a shorter gun with the same barrel lenght. I'm throwing ideas up in the air and seeing what everyone has to say about them.

lawdog-When you were looking for a big bore rifle why did you choose the 416 Rigby over the others. Or are you like me with bigbore handguns just trying to have some of each.lol

Out of Ruger, Winchester and Remington who makes the best action for these big guns?

Thanks for your replies thus far. I'm planning on making a purchase sometime during he first quarter of 2004.

Could any of you give me some good references about these big guns so that I can do a better job of educating myself.

Thanks a bunch so far.
Good luck and be safe,
Scott

akpls · « **Reply #7 on:** September 03, 2003, 05:41:43 AM »

Quote from: 1GLOCK

Marlin 1895 Guide Gun in 45/70. I love mine. If i didnt handload Id go with the 450 marlin mag though.

I'll second that on the 450M. I do handload but tend to shoot all the reloads up just for fun or "experimenting". Then I just grab the factory 350's and head out the door.

Lawdog · « **Reply #8 on:** September 03, 2003, 11:27:16 AM »

TScottO,

I have a number of big bores, they're like peanuts, can't have just one. The reason I discounted the lever action is there are areas in Africa that won't let you use pumps, semi-auto or lever action rifles, shotguns, etc. The reason I don't use a single shot is it takes a lot of practice holding cartridges between the fingers for quick reloading and the PH's I've talked to would prefer you not use single shot on dangerous game. My reason's for selecting the .416 Rigby is;

1.] Ammo is available almost everywhere in Africa.
2.] I can reload the Rigby down to the velocity of the Remington or up to near the level of the mighty Weatherby. And do it with 12 to 15 thousand pounds less pressure.

For our safari the wife plans to take a lion and buffalo and I planned on backing her up along with the PH. I got more years invested in her than he does. If it was just me hunting Africa I'd use my .375 Weatherby. Also I own two .450 Marlins(one a Ruger No.1, the other a Win. M70) that I choose over the .45-70 just because I reload. Hornady's own specifications shows the web and case walls to be a bit thicker ont hte .450 Marlin than the .45-70 thus making the .450 Marlin case somewhat stronger than the .45-70. Please guys don't flame me go after Hornady over this statement. Lawdog

Enforcer · « **Reply #9 on:** September 03, 2003, 04:04:56 PM »

The 405win is way underated and way underloaded in factory rounds.Rememeber it has a case capacity advantage over almost all you mentioned,45/70,450 Marlin,444 Marlin,458Win Mag do not hold as much powder as the mighty 405Win with COL of 3.20 :eek: .I get 2450fps-4000fpe :eek: with 300gr Hornady,out of my Win M1895 with 28in barrel and 58.5grs of IMR 3031.That exceeds anything that the 45/70.450 Marlin,444Marlin,458X2,416 Barnes can do with a 300gr,no matter how they are loaded.

akpls · « **Reply #10 on:** September 04, 2003, 07:09:18 AM »

Quote from: Lawdog

Also I own two .450 Marlins(one a Ruger No.1, the other a Win. M70) that I choose over the .45-70 just because I reload.

Lawdog, what kind of COL are you able to get? I have a Clark .450M built on a Ruger 77 and so far have gone out to 2.795" with the Barnes 300 gr. semi-spitzers. It looks like I have a little more length to play with but haven't had the time to check it out yet. akpls

Lawdog · « **Reply #11 on:** September 04, 2003, 10:15:38 AM »

akpls,

My longest load is the 450 gr. Barnes X. It measures 3.012 inches. How do you like your Clark? Did you get just the barreled action or the complete rifle? What make of barrel and what is the twist rate of it? Lawdog

akpls · « **Reply #12 on:** September 06, 2003, 07:14:07 AM »

Quote from: Lawdog

How do you like your Clark? Did you get just the barreled action or the complete rifle? What make of barrel and what is the twist rate of it? Lawdog

Lawdog, I love the job Clark did. I went with the complete rifle. Laminated stock (nice & heavy), Shilen barrel at 1:14. The trigger job they did has got to be one of the best I've had. Once I got the rifle from Clark I had my local smith put a Decelerator pad and sights on it and port it. Yes, I'm one of those guys that likes ports. After several years in the field artillery I just gotta have my muzzle blast!

I also stuck a Leupold 1.75x6 with Warne QD's on it. Next week we see if we can find a bear to test it on.

TScottO · « **Reply #13 on:** September 06, 2003, 02:40:33 PM »

Who makes a good bolt action for these big guns? Remington, Winchester, Sako, Ruger, any others? From what I have found the Sako is only avaliable in 375 HH. I haven't found a Sako that is advertised for larger rounds. I like good quality guns even if it means saving up a bit longer. The Remington, Winchester and Ruger seem to be in the same ball park as far as retail numbers go. I haven't found any numbers for the Sako. So lets say who makes the best action in the fifteen hundred-two grand price range?

Good luck and be safe,
Scott

akpls · « **Reply #14 on:** September 06, 2003, 07:11:37 PM »

TScotto, Ruger is chambering for the .458 Lott and I believe the .416 Rigby if you want to go that big. I've seen the .375 H&H in Winchester, Remington, Sako and Savage. There's one bolt put out in 45-70 by Gibbs(?) I believe. The Winchester Custom Shop will build you a .450 Marlin. I personally like the Ruger or Winchester with a controlled feed action, but any of the above makes should serve you well. If you're like me you'll end up tweaking whatever you buy to get it "just right". Of course there's a whole bunch of proprietary big bores (Dakota, Lazzeroni, Weatherby, etc.) to choose from too.

Lawdog · « **Reply #15 on:** September 07, 2003, 09:39:31 AM »

TScottO,

Everything that "akpls" has said is true. I own three Ruger M77 Magnums, a .375 H&H, a .416 Rigby and a .450 Rigby that I built. I don't know why Ruger didn't bring out the .450 Rigby instead of the .458 Lott. They went against the grain when they decided to chamber the .416 Rigby over the .416 Remington. Now the .416 Rigby is a big seller for them. The .450 Rigby beats the .458 Lott and does it with way less pressure, about 15,000 lbs. less pressure. Same with the .416 Rigby over the .416 Remington. Personally I would like to see Ruger bring out the 1, 2, 3 Rigby punch by bringing out the .350, .416 and the .450 Rigby's.

akpls,

My M70 .450 Marlin I got from Clark also but I went with the in the white barreled action due to having to restock the rifle due to my size(6' 7 1/2", 273 lbs.) factory stocks don't fit. I had my gunsmith install Express Multi-Leaf rear and hooded ramp front sights along with a barrel sling stud. I mounted a Burris 1.75-5x on Leupold QD rings and I used this to take Caribou, Moose and Black Bear with one shot each last year in Alaska. My brother in-law used it to take his Brown Bear but used three shots(the last was a insurance shot). It's a great cartridge when loaded right. Lawdog

akpls · « **Reply #16 on:** September 07, 2003, 10:57:12 AM »

I gotta start lookin' for a Rigby....... just don't tell my wife! :wink:

Lawdog · « **Reply #17 on:** September 08, 2003, 09:10:27 AM »

akpls,

The .416 Rigby is a great cartridge, used world wide. If you can't kill it with a .416 Rigby then you shouldn't be hunting it. Easy to reload and accurate, very accurate. If you get one give me a ring and I'll help you with some reload information. Lawdog

TScottO · « **Reply #18 on:** September 08, 2003, 03:44:41 PM »

What do yall think about Sauer rifles. They are offerd in 375 HH, 416 Rem and 458 Win. I've seen them in smaller calibers. They sure are silky smooth but what kind of longivity would they have in bigger guns? Are any of you familiar with them? They almost seem too well finised for a hunting firearm.

You all were talking about "controlled feed". What advantages does this have over the others?

Good luck and be safe
Scott

Boesman · « **Reply #19 on:** September 27, 2003, 10:12:16 PM »

A 375 H&H is a nice rifle to bring to Africa because of the wide choice of ammunition availble here and the wide terrain you might encounter, depending on the hunt you plan. You could be shooting from planes to Bushveld. The point being shooting distance vary from 25m to 200m depending on the game you are after. It has served professional ivory hunters like Harry Manners well.

A sigle shot will not be a problem because of the PH backing you up on dangerous game. If you practice you can reload a single shot just as fast, the gentleman saying you need a lot of practice, that may be true but if you put your life and your ph's live on the line with any rifle you have not practiced with don't come here. These criters can and will bite order the DVD's!

The point being there are like, merrits and dislikes of all actions; double, bolt and single shots, in the end the choice is yours.

I would go with a good bolt action based on the mauser K98 system it has proven itself over the years here in AFRICA.

Happy hunting