Author Topic: Scout Rifle??? (Read 2879 times)

Spanky · « **on:** March 02, 2009, 11:56:57 PM »

I was just browsing on another forum in their sporterizing section for military rifles.
There are a ton of posts where someone says "I just got done building my scout rifle"
Open the post and what do you see???

It's just about always the same thing...
Someone has taken an M44 Mosin Nagant and...
1. chopped the front of the stock off.
2. hammered the bayo lug off.
3. taken the rear sight off.
4. put one of those 50cent POS Ebay Chinese scopes on in the place of the rear sight.
5. sprayed truck bed paint all over it.

Then they brag and take pictures of the "scout rifle" they "built"
Now I have nothing against a sporter rifle. I have seen some very nice ones where people have taken their time and really done the work to make it functional and good looking.

But this scout thing makes me laugh.
Most of the Mosin "scouts" look like an abortion gone bad with their flimsy scope hangin' out in the breeze and the flip flop recoil pad.
Give me a break.

Spanky

Davemuzz · « **Reply #1 on:** March 03, 2009, 03:32:19 AM »

Agree. I've seen some fine jobs done on Mil-slurp's that have been converted to hunting rifles. Then, I've just seen guys who buy Mil-slurps and use 'em as range guns for plinkin. They clean 'em up and shoot 'em. The guns look good and some shoot pretty good groups for open sight military rifles.

But...yeah, some fellows are happy with an ax and a can of spray paint.

Old Fart · « **Reply #2 on:** March 03, 2009, 05:45:29 AM »

Quote from: Davemuzz on March 03, 2009, 03:32:19 AM

But...yeah, some fellows are happy with an ax and a can of spray paint.

Too funny!

Troyboy · « **Reply #3 on:** March 03, 2009, 12:16:49 PM »

I think a surplus firearm should be kept in an original state. Everyone has their own idea.

Oldshooter · « **Reply #4 on:** March 03, 2009, 12:42:16 PM »

Heck i was gonna get in on the conversation but somebody mentioned abortion and I already promised myself that I would not discuss that topic anymore! but now that I'm here................. I hate to see a hatchet job on a nice shooting iron, But one mans junk is another mans treasure! I dont , however understand how you can mount a scout scope on a barrel and it expect it to stay on with out gunsmithing

I have seen on one website how they use some sorta bondo but not sure I would trust that in the field

GrassLakeRon · « **Reply #5 on:** March 04, 2009, 12:03:13 AM »

I would agree that most "home projects" can turn into a hack job, but think of it this way, Here is a person who is trying something new, and learning what to do and what not to do on a small budget. I have a par of M38's. I to also thought about the "scout" route. Currently they are not, but down the road maybe? The mosin is the cheapest way to experiment and not loose sleep over how much you spent.......

Just My 2 Cents,

Ron

hunt-m-up · « **Reply #6 on:** March 04, 2009, 12:18:46 AM »

I agree that some people do a real ugly hack job, but I think of it this way. We need all the allies in the shooting sports we can get right now. If that means an ATI stock on a Mosin and a crappy camo job will bring someone new to the sport that's fine with me.
That's how my neighbor is, he missed 2 coyotes I called in last weekend, just started hunting last year, but he's improving.

Spanky · « **Reply #7 on:** March 04, 2009, 12:58:23 AM »

I do agree with both of you guys.
It's great to see someone getting their hands dirty working on their guns
Mosin's can be made into real nice sporters if you just take your time and do a little extra work to make them look and perform well.
I just hate to see one just thrown together... take the time and do it right.
I have two Mosins now... one is a pristine lam. stocked 91/30 and the other is a sporter.
I have spent hours and hours smoothing and polishing the action and barrel... all the metal is smooth as glass now.
I stoned every contact surface in the trigger group, lightened and shimmed the sear spring, cut down the firing pin spring, polished every part of the bolt, etc.
It's been alot of work but the action is smooth as butter and the trigger breaks at 2lbs10oz. with no creep.
I still have to make an overtravel stop though.
I have an ATI camo stock (fits me great) that I relieved and bedded.
The ATI bolt handle sucks so I made my own and silver soldered it on.
The ATI scope mount is on backorder so I made my own mount too.
I just bought a claro walnut stock blank which will be inletted for this and will replace the ATI.

I've been working on this one for a while and it's really coming together nicely.
It just takes time and you have to work at it.
Mosins are dirt cheap and they are good ones to learn on, that's for sure.
I'll try to post some pics of my 2 Mosins later today.

Spanky

hunt-m-up · « **Reply #8 on:** March 04, 2009, 03:32:50 AM »

I would like to see the photos as I've been looking at a M38 and it sounds like you've put alot of work into your project, probably more than what my short attention span would allow

MGMorden · « **Reply #9 on:** March 04, 2009, 04:45:09 AM »

What's funnier is when the same guns show up on auction sites listed as "CUSTOM" rifles and they actually try to charge some premium price for them. IMHO, for a sporter to not draw some odd looks, it needs, at a minimum, a new stock and properly attached scope mounts (which may necessitate bolt and/or safety alterations).

Cutting down the stock never ends up looking good. Painting them looks ridiculous. I also find it intriguing: wood stocks are known for their beauty. Synthetics are known for durability, light weight, and stability. PAINTING a wood stock leaves you with a stock that has none of the real benefits of the synthetic, but forces on the main negative of them: their appearance.

Now, scout mounts are good if that's really what you're looking for, and I'll accept that some people might. I'll even accept that if you just use a scout mount because you don't want to permanently alter the rifle, then that's fine too. But in cases like you mention where the person is obviously not shy about chopping it up a bit, scout mounts as a way of avoiding drilling just look goofy to me.

But, to each his own. Just stating my preferences

. Everybody is certainly welcome to do with their rifles what they want. And to their credit, I've picked up a few botched sporters over the years for pretty good prices (usually locally - on the rare chance that someone puts a fair price on one online it's usually not worth shipping and transfer), and often times you can complete them with just a little extra work and money.

.

Hank08 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 05, 2009, 04:38:10 AM »

I know what ypur sayings but remember
"Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder" It may be beautiful to the owner.
"Beauty is as beauty does" If it shoots good that's what counts.
It's like those pictures your kids bring home that you put on the refrigerator.
Our local Boy scouts bought Mosins, at least a 100 of them and had a fun time trying to sporterize them. Some were OK, some were less than that but they were all proud of what they did and most ,if not all, thought they were beautiful.
H08

Oldshooter · « **Reply #11 on:** March 05, 2009, 05:16:04 AM »

Quote

It's like those pictures your kids bring home that you put on the refrigerator.

In that light you are absolutely correct!

Also good to see the the Scouts doing such projects!

Spanky · « **Reply #12 on:** March 05, 2009, 04:51:59 PM »

Quote from: Oldshooter on March 05, 2009, 05:16:04 AM

Also good to see the the Scouts doing such projects!

+1 to that

Spanky

S.S. · « **Reply #13 on:** March 06, 2009, 06:28:23 PM »

I always thought Col. Coopers scout rifle concept was kind of silly anyway.
Have never found one real advantage to having a rifle set up that way.
One of those "Gun Guru" ideas that everybody had to have at the time.
I have fell prey to a couple of weird ideas myself though. The "Whisper"
cartridges for example, Just had to have a .300 whisper. Afterwards
I just had to wonder why?

Mikey · « **Reply #14 on:** March 07, 2009, 01:59:37 AM »

Why S.S.? Why, why why?

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #15 on:** March 07, 2009, 05:20:05 AM »

Yep beauty is in the eyes of the beholder and alot of those things are butt ugly they do work really well thou and to me performance is where the beauty lies. An M 44 is butt ugly to begning with anyway.

Cement Man · « **Reply #16 on:** March 07, 2009, 06:10:11 AM »

I put scout scopes in SK mounts and rings on my old 98's, Swedes, and Swisses because I can shoot them much, much more accurately with glass and I can return them to original if and when I decide to. My old eyes require different sights and I get a lot of pleasure being able to get this shootability and accuracy out of these old rifles again. I also like the Mojo sights as well. They help me a lot - used with prescription glasses. Again, I can return to original when I want to.

There are some things about the scout rifle concept that I do like and I think Cooper had some good ideas - for it's specific use. I don't think that many of the critics really understand the whole scout rifle concept. I agree that a half-a$%ed hatchet job is not desirable, and most homemade junkers do not comply with the intended specifications for a scout rifle anyway. To many, a forward mounted IER scope makes a scout rifle - when in most cases you really just have a scout mount on a butchered rifle.

For my purposes (targets and hunting) the "standard" scope arrangement works better for me. I do like those scout mounts & scopes for helping me (temporarily) with my milsurps though.

Cement Man · « **Reply #17 on:** March 07, 2009, 06:12:26 AM »

Quote from: Badnews Bob on March 07, 2009, 05:20:05 AM

Yep beauty is in the eyes of the beholder and alot of those things are butt ugly they do work really well thou and to me performance is where the beauty lies. An M 44 is butt ugly to begning with anyway.

Yeah, I agree with you on all counts!

S.S. · « **Reply #18 on:** March 07, 2009, 03:00:20 PM »

It is definately all in what the owner wants out of their weapon.
Just not practical for me. I can't judge anothers wants. I am on an Air rifle
binge right now myself. my mission is to hand build one powerful enough
to hunt big game at short range. Crazy I know, So as I said, I cant judge anothers wants.

Cement Man · « **Reply #19 on:** March 07, 2009, 03:28:52 PM »

Quote from: S.S. on March 07, 2009, 03:00:20 PM

It is definately all in what the owner wants out of their weapon.
Just not practical for me. I can't judge anothers wants. I am on an Air rifle
binge right now myself. my mission is to hand build one powerful enough
to hunt big game at short range. Crazy I know, So as I said, I cant judge anothers wants.

S.S. I'm still grateful for the Steyr 95 clips. Thanks again sir.

I have always been fascinated by the fact that Lewis and Clark had a powerful air gun with them on their expedition over 200 years ago. I don't know anything about that gun. Is your project similar to an historic model?

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #20 on:** March 07, 2009, 03:54:13 PM »

All I can say is one mans trash is another mans treasure.
I had a few of the nagants. Never thought of them as a hunting rifle. Never really thought much of them. But it would be a good cheap way to see if you liked the scout idea for a mauser or other action. The idea of the scout was to move the scope forward with low power as enhanced fast open sights and still be able to use stripper clips.
Hunting in eastern NC I can see the advantage of one. Fast short rifle for a deer running from hounds and have the ability to reach across a field to take a deer as they graze in a near by field.
As a joke I mounted a pistol scope on a bolt action 22LR and made it a squirrel scout gun. My father who does not like scopes actually liked the scout set as he can look through both eyes and still see the target.

MGMorden · « **Reply #21 on:** March 08, 2009, 10:38:09 AM »

Quote from: mcwoodduck on March 07, 2009, 03:54:13 PM

Fast short rifle for a deer running from hounds

Don't know if it's any different in NC, but in SC if you're hunting ahead of dogs rifles are not legal. You have to use a shotgun + buckshot. It seems like the trend lately has been to slowly phase out the practice altogether though.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #22 on:** March 09, 2009, 05:11:18 AM »

Last time I went it was legal. All the Fairfield guys I saw this past trip to the farm has rifles in their trucks.
I was not there long enough to really hunt so I opted just to do upland and ducks with dad and his 2 year old yellow lab.

kitchawan kid · « **Reply #23 on:** March 09, 2009, 05:19:34 AM »

I have a few old military fifles and just like to clean them up and shoot,right now am working on hand loads for thr Mosin.One question,the bore is not worn or rusted but looks like 5 miles of bad road,is that normal?

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #24 on:** March 09, 2009, 05:25:05 AM »

No,
Your bore is pitted from either neglect (prevoius owner) or corosive ammo and not cleaning the bore.

kitchawan kid · « **Reply #25 on:** March 09, 2009, 05:39:47 AM »

Now that I didn't want to hear,but the price was right,but I am afraid the accuracy does show a problem.

1911crazy · « **Reply #26 on:** March 09, 2009, 07:01:15 AM »

I wouldn't take a perfectly good military surplus gun and turn it into a sporter but i have purchased someone's unfinished work and have built sporters from military barreled actions using the orginal wood stocks i purchase seperately and brought the wood back to its orginal bueaty and added a military 3 post scope. I have also seen some of the orginal work of the older hunters who took the military surplus guns and made there own affordable hunting rifle from them. I seen a 303 britt not too long ago that looked awesome the way he cut it down and refinished it. It was only $75 and i regret that i passed on it. I don't like to take my orginal surplus guns into the woods and weather to get hammered nor do i like to take my expensive newer rifles out in the bad weather too. These old brought back to life military sporters make the perfect foul weather hunting rifles.

I do not cut barrels or cut stocks nor paint them with cammo of trunk paint. My home build surplups look like sniper rifles when i'm done but there not the orginals nor do i try to pass them off as orginals. These are my shooters and hunters.

My next build will be a swede barreled action project. (youth gun/grandkids)

The surplus military guns are listed on the backwoods home site as cheap affordable game/meat getters. A hunting license, surplus rifle and 1 box of ammo is under $100 and your in the woods getting meat for the table with a m44 mosin and a box of barnaul 203gr sp ammo. For a beginner hunting its an awesome buy and setup.

Spanky · « **Reply #27 on:** March 09, 2009, 09:18:34 AM »

Quote from: 1911crazy on March 09, 2009, 07:01:15 AM

A hunting license, surplus rifle and 1 box of ammo is under $100 and your in the woods getting meat for the table with a m44 mosin and a box of barnaul 203gr sp ammo. For a beginner hunting its an awesome buy and setup.

Don't forget the earplugs with a M44

They bark!!

Spanky

1911crazy · « **Reply #28 on:** March 09, 2009, 11:16:36 AM »

Quote from: MGMorden on March 04, 2009, 04:45:09 AM

What's funnier is when the same guns show up on auction sites listed as "CUSTOM" rifles and they actually try to charge some premium price for them.

Your right they think there reworked surplus military gun is worth much more than in the orginal condition. I'm seeing prices of $350 and up here on some of them. Thats just silly. And they don't really look that great too.

I keep the orginal wood stock that makes a rifle a rifle. Its all about the wood lookin good...

jmayton · « **Reply #29 on:** March 10, 2009, 05:00:15 PM »

I've got a M44 wearing one of those cheap Ebay mounts and scope. I didn't want to spend a lot on putting glass on the rifle so I went the cheapest route possible. It is my truck gun and I take it hog hunting occasionally. After a good amount of loc-tite, the mount is pretty solid. I didn't want to do a lot to it and I want to be able to return it to original condition, so this was the best way to go for me since I wanted glass on it. It's ugly, but it works....and isn't that the point. I'll agree, hacking up a perfectly good milsurp might be bad judgement, but if it works for that person, who am I to say they did the wrong thing.