Author Topic: Bush and The Stock Market (Read 2356 times)

alsaqr · « **on:** March 04, 2009, 01:40:34 AM »

Lush Limpbaugh and the others so called "conservative" mouthpieces are making a big deal about the stock market under Obama. I do not care about Obama and his plans for the US. It is fair to say, however, that the market went into the crapper on the Bush watch. The market lost 5,585 points in the period 9 October, 07 to 9 October, 08.

The history of the stock market:

http://www.mdleasing.com/djia.htm

billy_56081 · « **Reply #1 on:** March 04, 2009, 01:56:56 AM »

oct 9 2007, it closes at the all time high, Hey gamblers, if you didn't jup out when it was high, you are just poor gamblers. I have lost nothig in the market, zip, nada, nothing. Why not take what you have left and gamble it in Vegas.

LONGTOM · « **Reply #2 on:** March 04, 2009, 02:52:14 AM »

alsaqr:

Just like the liberal media, you forgot to include all the facts.
One of the main reasons for the decline was the Clinton administration was the ones that mandated that the lending institutions make unsecured loans on homes that were over inflated to unqualified buyers with payments that they could not possibly meet if they had any type of financial hardship!

Don't get me wrong it wasn't all rosy under the BUSH administration either and both sides, the Deems & the REPs were also responsible for most of the mess we are in but you can't lay the blame all on BUSH!

The country has been in this spend like there is no tomorrow for a very long time and it is just coming to a head.

This administration headed by the LIAR IN THE WHITE HOUSE will be the end of it all, one way or the other.
I hope it works for the countries sake and if it don't, then guess who will get the blame, and in two years the REPs stand a good chance of regaining control of congress.
But if they don't change the way things are run then there won't be much difference!
No matter what happens it will be left up to our offspring to clean up what's left, IF ANYTHING!!!

One more thing- PLEASE teach your kids to be responsible in life and with their spending habits because it will not only be them who will have to clean up the mess but it will also be them that will be running the show!

LONGTOM

Questor · « **Reply #3 on:** March 04, 2009, 03:13:50 AM »

About the original post: I hope nobody is disputing those facts. Bush handled economic matters very badly and it is fair to say he positioned us for the horrendous mistakes that are being made today.

myronman3 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 04, 2009, 03:30:01 AM »

it is amazing. the guy is gone....yet the haters still feel the need for his blood. it must suck to let hate be the driving force in your life and outlook.

LONGTOM · « **Reply #5 on:** March 04, 2009, 03:31:32 AM »

Not disputing them, just adding to them!

LONGTOM

hunt-m-up · « **Reply #6 on:** March 04, 2009, 03:46:30 AM »

Quote from: Questor on March 04, 2009, 03:13:50 AM

About the original post: I hope nobody is disputing those facts. Bush handled economic matters very badly and it is fair to say he positioned us for the horrendous mistakes that are being made today.

Your statement hardly tracks with the brilliant philosophy of "CHANGE" that was so prominent in the Obamanation's campaign. So his predecessor's poor handling of matters(true by the way) sets the stage for mistakes how? Really not much thought put into this latest scheme. Just proves there is not much difference from one politician to the next.
But then when you bring in a raft of tax dodgers to create a cabinet, good luck.

alsaqr · « **Reply #7 on:** March 04, 2009, 02:04:36 PM »

Quote

Just proves there is not much difference from one politician to the next.

Bingo.
Same game, different dealers. Neither national political party gives two hoots in hades for anyone other than their fat cat donors.

TARP and the fed have propped up the Wall St. banks and insurance companies with at least 8.5 trillion dollars. The fed acts independently of the white house and congress. Congress has the power to stop the fed from propping up the Wall St. banks but they refuse to do so.

A few months ago the national debt stood at under 10 trillion dollars. Now the experts say that the national debt is 14 trillion dollars.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #8 on:** March 04, 2009, 02:17:40 PM »

Myronman3,
watch this.
Actually the stock market has been headed into the crapper since the lierals over turned Bush Sr. "read My lips, No new Taxes" veto with a majority and then Bill Clintoon added to those taxes. The Small tax cut that Bush Jr gave us back was still not anywhere enough to get us back to the pre Clintoon days and certainly not back the the Ronald Reagan days. Not to mention the taxes Clintoon placed on retirement income.
With nine words Obama can get Wall Street back on track.
"Twenty- five percent tax cuts across the board for 2010"
Besides you are assuming that the left wants wall street to survive. With out wall street and investments Social Security is your only oprtion for retirement income. they then can mandate to you how to live so you do not get taxed on your income. Ect.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 04, 2009, 02:18:13 PM »

Hey I did very well in the markets, took my money out when it was high. And can anyone here dispute, that under George W Bush. The dow jones index average closed at an all time high, a record that has never been seen before or since. Hey don't blame Bush and Don't blame BHO, you yourself were the greedy selfish gamblers who lost your rear ends.

It is your fault, no one elses. It's about time you wanna be conservatives own up to your mistakes. You were all fiscal Liberals and you are doing what you liberals are best for, blaming someone else when YOU did wrong.

mrachal · « **Reply #10 on:** March 04, 2009, 04:41:21 PM »

This is what we can expect. It is going to be a long 4 years.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 04, 2009, 05:12:17 PM »

When Ike left office and gave the keys to that criminal Kennedy, the income tax rate was about 3%. Whats it now? There ya go.

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #12 on:** March 05, 2009, 02:39:55 AM »

The chart is interesting. I would like to see what the average family income is through those years to compare the actual tax rates for the average income. That would be a more reasonable comparison. I know we found some check stubs that my grandmother had back in the 1950's where she worked in a cotton mill. She only made about $35 a week, so with that information, the tax rate would be on the low end of the scales.

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #13 on:** March 05, 2009, 02:43:45 AM »

Here is a chart to compare the tax rates with the averge income.

http://www.ask.com/bar?q=What+is+the+average+family+income+historically&page=1&qsrc=0&zoom=Trace+the+Lives+of+Jesus+and+Mohammed+Historically%7C&ab=0&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.census.gov%2Fhhes%2Fwww%2Fincome%2Fhistinc%2Ff07ar.html

Hear is the difference in mean and median:

Median and Mean
The median is the middle value in a range of values arranged in sequence by size. For example the median of 6, 3, 9, 2, 12, 3, 54 is 6, determined by arranging the numbers in the following sequence: 2, 3, 3, 6, 9, 12, 54.

The mean or average is determined by adding up all the numbers and dividing by the number of numbers. So for the example above, the sum of 2+3+3+6+9+12+54 = 89 Divide 89 by 7 = 12.7

So the mean - also called simple average is 12.7

So it is best to use the mean average to compare the tax rates.

myronman3 · « **Reply #14 on:** March 05, 2009, 03:29:56 AM »

Quote from: mcwoodduck on March 04, 2009, 02:17:40 PM

Myronman3,
watch this.
Actually the stock market has been headed into the crapper since the lierals over turned Bush Sr. "read My lips, No new Taxes" veto with a majority and then Bill Clintoon added to those taxes. The Small tax cut that Bush Jr gave us back was still not anywhere enough to get us back to the pre Clintoon days and certainly not back the the Ronald Reagan days. Not to mention the taxes Clintoon placed on retirement income.
With nine words Obama can get Wall Street back on track.
"Twenty- five percent tax cuts across the board for 2010"
Besides you are assuming that the left wants wall street to survive. With out wall street and investments Social Security is your only oprtion for retirement income. they then can mandate to you how to live so you do not get taxed on your income. Ect.

it aint no skin off my back. you make the mistake of thinking i am pulling for one side versus the other. the only side i am on is america's side. i refuse to get bogged down in the minutia; it doesnt make a difference and wears on you for no good reason. my energy is better spent in other endeavors.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #15 on:** March 05, 2009, 04:15:28 AM »

Quote from: TM7 on March 05, 2009, 02:03:22 AM

Quote from: cabin4 on March 04, 2009, 05:12:17 PM
When Ike left office and gave the keys to that criminal Kennedy, the income tax rate was about 3%. Whats it now? There ya go.
.
Not exactly the case...taxes were much higher. I didn't know Kennedy was a criminal, too. I do know he tried to stabilize our currency a away from FED monopoly control and 2 other key planks.

Here's tax rate data history in simple chart form...very interesting.. Likely using statistics charting tax rate correlated to economic stability indicators would show a more stable economy with moderate taxes and a negative relationship with mimimal taxes.

Here the data:

http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/151.html

...TM7
.

You’re looking at just personal federal income tax rate. You need to look at GDP and tax revenues from all income. The number has sky rocketed based on this. This has shifted power from people and private business to the government. The government cannot do its filthy deeds and exert influence without tax dollars. Reduce taxes and the government must shrink and its influence diminishes.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #16 on:** March 05, 2009, 05:40:01 AM »

Myronman,
No I ment watch this I can get the liberal into a lather and pissed off cause I blamed Congress and Bill Clintoon. They hate it when you blame bill for all the stupid crap he did.

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #17 on:** March 05, 2009, 05:51:44 AM »

I could work up a chart for the mean income each year and the tax rate. However, back in the 50's and 60's you could deduct 100% of charitable donations, credit card interest, vehicle financing interest, as well as home mortgage interest. A lot of people got paid in cash back then also. We really need a national 1% sales tax and a flat low income tax. Much simpler, more take home pay. Government would get more, especially when people bought things.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #18 on:** March 05, 2009, 08:02:23 AM »

i agree with you to a point.
either a 1% national sales tax OR Not and a low fixed flat tax rate.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #19 on:** March 05, 2009, 09:07:52 AM »

TM7,
Two slight flaws in your Idea.
1-We may be on par with the rest of the devolpoed nations but 95% of them are socialist. Who says we want to be like them? we are the only super power left and are quickly headed to be on par with everyone else. Why follow them down the same road. being differnet and free has made the USA the power house it is.
It is like saying if we eliminate all handguns like Japan we will have as few handgun murders as they do. OK but they have a higher murder rate per capita than we do. They just use other items.
2- High taxes kill a nation. By raising taxes on items you are shifting the demand curve and we are not getting full employment of labor, capital, and profit. The higher the taxes the less is purchased and the lower the profits and the lower the profits the lower the amount of total tax paid. The reverse is true. Lower taxes and larger volumes of money will be collected in taxes due to greater profits and higher use of labor and greater wages paid for that labor.

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #20 on:** March 05, 2009, 09:15:03 AM »

In every recession since WWII that they lowered taxes, the economy pulled out of the recession. It taxes aren't lowered now, we are in for a long deep recession.

myronman3 · « **Reply #21 on:** March 05, 2009, 09:39:48 AM »

Quote

It taxes aren't lowered now, we are in for a long deep recession.

best grab you a snickers bar....

mcwoodduck...my bad. the whole typing/misinturpetation thing. you bring up a good point. people like to blame one side or the other. the facts are somewhere in between.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #22 on:** March 05, 2009, 09:42:20 AM »

Stock up on canned foods and ammunition. Your going to need it.

The fat lady is about to sing.

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #23 on:** March 05, 2009, 10:33:07 AM »

Kennedy had taxes cut and the 60's boomed, Reagan cut taxes and the economy boomed. Bush cut taxes and it boomed again. When the economy grows the government can take in more taxes because of more employment and corporate profits. The problem today is twofold. Deregulation of the banking industry under Clinton and banks loaning money like crazy and the mostly younger people charging for everything they wanted, and buying homes with ARMS and ballon payments in 5 years. Banks never did this before. If the regulations stayed in place for banks we would not be having this deep of recession, and if people were more responsible with their finances. All can't be blamed on the government, nor the banks. Both political parties allowed this to happen, starting with Clinton. Also Clinton was riding the boom from the Reagan plans (401k, lower taxes, less government). I know some will say the government spending grew under Reagan, but when he took office the feds were 34% of the economy, when he left it was 22%. It grew, but less than the economy. We also had a 600 ship navy and could patrol the entire world's oceans at once. Caused Soviet Union to colapse trying to keep up with us. I miss Reagan.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #24 on:** March 05, 2009, 11:29:50 AM »

TM7.
Weather the tax system works for you or not. there are huge problems with all the taxes not just your income and payroll.
For starters on your phone bill there is a tax that was enacted in 1898 to pay for the Spanish American war. Every six months the government collects more than what was spent on the war and after more than 100 years that debt should have been retired.
As far as programs well we will differ on them. I would like to be incharge of my live and not have to answer to 537 dolts that tell me how I can get some of my $ back if I live thier way. The Tax code is set up so you will act the way they want you to. Buy a house and stay in debt with it so you can deduct the interest payments.
They confiscate $ from me and my employer for social security but if i were allowed to invest it personally I would not need social security. Heck if they let me opt out and took only 1/3 as a safety net and to pay for the people that are on the current program, I would not need it and I would be able to pass my assests on to my hires. Social security is the best way to destroy wealth the liberals and communists ever came up with next to the death tax! The death tax is why we had farm aid in the mid to late 80's and is the reason for the rise in factory farming.
There is a problem when more than 50% of my total pay goes to taxes and fees for Federal, State and Local taxes.
As far as having more $ for your silly projects and programs that the federal government has done they will have more than enough if they will lower taxes and reduce fees. part of the problem with the last federal tax cut was that states like CA had a Tax increase of 95% of your cut and nothing was trickeled down.
There also is a problem when the state and federal government each make more on a gallon of gas than does the whole production and distrubition process. EACH and Exxon, Shell, BP, and Mobile are the bad guys for 3% profit on a gallon.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #25 on:** March 05, 2009, 12:14:31 PM »

Quote from: cabin4 on March 05, 2009, 09:42:20 AM

Stock up on canned foods and ammunition. Your going to need it.

The fat lady is about to sing.

A 50 lb bag of pinto beans wil go a long way. Heck plant a pound or so this summer and they wil really go a long ways.

I do have one question for you all, Who was president when the stock market reached an all time record high? Aslo who is the one who decides which funds your retirment money goes in to and who decides when to invest them in in funds that follow the stock market and some fixed interest funds?

epanzella · « **Reply #26 on:** March 05, 2009, 01:47:42 PM »

Quote from: alsaqr on March 04, 2009, 01:40:34 AM

Lush Limpbaugh and the others so called "conservative" mouthpieces are making a big deal about the stock market under Obama. I do not care about Obama and his plans for the US. It is fair to say, however, that the market went into the crapper on the Bush watch. The market lost 5,585 points in the period 9 October, 07 to 9 October, 08.

The history of the stock market:

http://www.mdleasing.com/djia.htm

While technically accurate, your statement is misleading. To blame Bush for a market contraction on his watch while ignoring market growth on that same watch is jibberish.
BUSH in @ 9800
Bush out @ 8000
Net contraction 1800 points.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #27 on:** March 05, 2009, 02:29:38 PM »

The last 40 or 50 years have been very good for wealthier folks, perhaps it is their turn to carry a little more of the tax load. Are you nuts? The wealthiest 5% of the country pay 51% or more of the total tax. More than 50% do not pay tacxes. this includes corp. You can not tell me that we can not cut down on some of government spending. Why does Congress get a different retirement package than the rest of govt employees? Do they need all the aids and pages? I have to go But bigger government is not the soultion. We need more profit makers and less profit eaters to get back on track to be the greatest nation in the world.

alsaqr · « **Reply #28 on:** March 06, 2009, 01:36:44 AM »

Quote

I'm also for reviewing how the Feds dole out tax monies to the various states. I live in a state that only gets back about 78 cents on a tax dollar tendered. Funny thing is most of the conservative red states get way more than a dollar back. This causes my state to have a 10% income tax and a 8.65% sales tax. I'm tired of supporting the so-called conservative states...!

Excellent post.
OK has hardly any economy except for farming. We get back more than we pay in. The same is true of Kansas and Texas. I guess the statement about OK by a friend of mine is true: "Who needs an economy when you have football and Jesus."

JonnyC · « **Reply #29 on:** March 07, 2009, 12:10:38 AM »

Quote from: myronman3 on March 04, 2009, 03:30:01 AM

it is amazing. the guy is gone....yet the haters still feel the need for his blood. it must suck to let hate be the driving force in your life and outlook.

USING THAT LOGIC- NO ONE HERE SHOULD MENTION CLINTON.