Bush and The Stock Market

[myronman3]

i was no fan of him, either, and did a jig when he was gone.  but i dont spend my days frothing at the mouth over his antics.

[Dixie Dude]

People forget there was a Republican congress and senate who worked with Clinton.  Obama is getting a free ride with the media still.  Also, like I said tax rates years ago had a lots more deductions.  Secondly, as INFLATION raises your pay over the years, you get into HIGHER tax brackets.  So, you have to have tax cuts to keep pace with actual take home spending power.  My banker told me that we will have 18% interest rates this time next year, BECAUSE the government will use inflated dollars to pay back all the spending.  As I said back in January, we will see 10% unemployment before the year is out, and 5500 Dow.  I also heard this weekend there is 9.3 TRILLION dollars sitting in banks that people pulled out of the stock market.  Why invest if the capital gains taxes are going up.  Sociallists and Communists in the White House can see this.  They want MORE government control of everything, cradle to grave.  If companies values go up with a rising market, their borrowing power also goes up, and the banks can make loans, and the whole economy goes up with it.  Tax cuts for corporations and business, and capital gains, will get things going again. 

[billy_56081]

I still have to say, Bush had the highest Dow ever, I was smart enough to put mine in fixed interest when the dow got high. The dummies who rode the markett up and then back down have only themselves to blame. theyremind me of some of the farmers around here who are whining because corn prices  dropped big time.

George W Bush President of the United States of America  when in Sept. 2007 the DOW Jones index average reached its highest point EVER.

[45-70.gov]

I still have to say, Bush had the highest Dow ever, I was smart enough to put mine in fixed interest when the dow got high. The dummies who rode the markett up and then back down have only themselves to blame. theyremind me of some of the farmers around here who are whining because corn prices  dropped big time.

George W Bush Presient of the United States of America  when in Sept. 2007 the DOW Jones index average reached its highest point EVER.

i  did very good during the BUSH years

  the market  started  to crash 
when it became  apparent  that  the next president  was going to be a liberal
whether  it was klinton  obama  or  mccain.......to go with  the democratic house and senate
and every one started to bail out   like rats on a sinking ship

don't  forget  who wants  to ban  guns
if  your  broke  go  look in the mirror for  the reason

[myronman3]

i didnt lose a dime, either.  but you wont see me gloating about it.  i feel bad for those who took a licking and it was mostly luck that i didnt.   do what you want, but i would be really careful about enjoying other peoples' pain. 

[Skunk]

Do what you want, but i would be really careful about enjoying other peoples' pain.

Thank You Myronman, Well Said.

[Cabin4]

This entire country suffers from the decline in the stock market. Just because you had no personal money in the market does not mean you will not feel the pain of the decline. Like it or not, we have a capitalist economic system that requires capitol ($$) must be invested in it to enable economic stability and or growth. That stability and or growth turns into jobs for everyone, not just investment equity growth for those that put money in the market.

Count your blessings if you did not have personal money in the market because your impact is less than someone did. it. Those that did lost billions…..and that will directly translate into fewer jobs. Wall street and main street are directly connected to each other. One cannot survive without the other in a free market economic system.

[wareagleguy]

A few things should be set straight.
1.    This talk about Clinton forcing banks to loan to people that can’t pay the load is the reason for the banks problems is wrong.  ALL subprime loans (including the government) are less than 5 percent of all loans.
2.   Companies DO NOT PAY TAXES.  As a business owner,  I can tell you that taxes are passed to the customer which is you and me (Joe consumer).
3.   Trickle Down Economics is a lie.  It has and never will “stimulate” anything except those it is geared for and that is the super rich.

[JonnyC]

Those here that gloat about other people's misfortunes cannot see past their noses.

[mcwoodduck]

Wareagleguy,
Ok I'm with you on the customers pay the taxes thing.  Yes the company writes the check but the company has figured their profits and the taxes on those profits into thier prices.
But trickle down does work.
OK with your company.  Let's say you are sending 1 million in taxes to DC every year.  
Now if we cut the taxes by 10% and you are now sendin 900,000 what are you going to do with the other 100,000?  Are you going to pocket it as profit, lower your price, pay off debts, Buy a (bigger, new what have you) building or expand your business with new equipment and people?  hiring those people will move them up.  Be it you increase wages across the board in your shop or creat a new position and have to fill it or promote someone in house and then fill their position they are now doing better and will be able to purchase more goods and services.  Granted over some time.  Yes it makes the rich richer but also increases the middle class and decreases the lowest class.  It also punishes anyone who does not want to work, also for some silly reason it hurts labor unions as their scale does not go up like non union work scale does.  In a union if your good or bad at your job you get X$ for how long you are with the union,  non union workers are paid on how good they are at their job.  When I was grinding fiberglass working for a guy who repaired boats both of his guys, me and Dude were paid the same $7 and hour.  Charlie would look at a job ad say this will take Dude 8 hours to do.  If I got it done in 3 he would pay me for the 8 hours. and move me to something else.  I usually brought home 1,000 to 1,200 a week for being in College in the late 80's.

[billy_56081]

I guess I don't consider taking responsibility, gloating. Now I do take issue when people have to blame others for thier own dumb mistakes.

I'll say it again, George W Bush was president when the DOW Jones hit an all time record high. Here's some very very sound finacial advice, buy low sell high.

[Cabin4]

A few things should be set straight.
1.    This talk about Clinton forcing banks to loan to people that can’t pay the load is the reason for the banks problems is wrong.  ALL subprime loans (including the government) are less than 5 percent of all loans.
2.   Companies DO NOT PAY TAXES.  As a business owner,  I can tell you that taxes are passed to the customer which is you and me (Joe consumer).
3.   Trickle Down Economics is a lie.  It has and never will “stimulate” anything except those it is geared for and that is the super rich.

Item 2 you are correct. But you can't have it both ways with item 3. The fact is that business & capitol creates jobs. Labor by itself cannot create a job. As a business owner, I'm surprised you would disagree with this.

[wareagleguy]

Cabin,
SOOOO, what do you think of it now?  Would you say this country is in good shape?  Yes, I do need tax breaks but one thing the trickle down system refuses to see is that reguardless of how many tax breaks I get I NEED CUSTOMERS TO BUY MY PRODUCT!.

You must help the middle class.  Bush has NEVER gave one damn about the middle class.

Don't think I am a OBAMA fan, cause I am not.

[Cabin4]

I agree the middle class needs help. This country can never be strong without a strong middle class. We are a majority middle class country and we can never fund the Washington spending sprees on the backs of the rich and business alone. The middle class pays for nearly everything.

That’s said, there are a number of ways to help middle class and one of them is not raising taxes on business. Obama’s plan to raise taxes will only hurt middle and lower class incomes. To your point earlier, tax increases on business are passed down to the consumer anyway or it will mean the loss of jobs to pay for the increase. One of the 2 must happen. So I think this is clear, the consumer and workers get hurt.

So by default, if taxes were lowered on business, it would enable them to preserve current jobs during or  allow hiring of new employees or reduce prices or hold prices on product/services. Whichever works for the business is what will apply and the consumer and jobs win. The issue of raising taxes to pay for government spending and the deficit is the issue. Cut spending, cut taxes and shrink the size of the Washington beast. Let the economy do its job and keep the criminals in Washington as far away as possible from controlling it. Because if they can control it, which is what Obama wants, it will be used as a political weapon with the American workers and business in the cross fire. This is what we now have…

As far as trickle down: Again if the above is true and I think you agree based on your item 2, trickle down must therefore work. As an example, look at Vietnam. It’s the next place manufacturing will go for low cost labor. The labor their by itself cannot produce jobs. Only capitol and investment going in there to build factories so they can tap the labor force will.

The current stock market condition is “speaking” volumes about Obama’s economic plan. It’s in full revolt mode, capitol and investment are leaving the free market which means no trickle down, which means loss of jobs.

[wareagleguy]

Cabin,
I do agree there are some people that are employed by tax breaks to companies.  I do think that isn't too biggest problem.  The problem (as far as employees) is that I must not only compete with the guy down the street I must compete with the whole world.  No way can I pay a living wage to employees when the guy on the other side of the world pays his employees .50 cents a week.  Bush even gave tax payer money to help these companies move to third world countries and setup shop.  Putting many out of jobs.  Then as more lose jobs and income is lowered because we had/have a president that knows full well that pay for jobs in this country is being affected by refusing to close the borders.

I fell with every part of my body that Bush was evil but we may just see a whole new evil.

[Redtail1949]

Selective Memory?

Bush had 9-11 Katrina the western United Staes burning to the ground and more Storms of devastation. Lets do not forget the Tsumai that wiped of Indonesia that we spent billions on. I am well aware of the cost to America and simply put it is astounding that we as a Nation weathered it all. Oh and the War to bring to justice the people that want to kill us, that includes you and your family.

I know of no other presidency that faced that much in the history of the US. The economics of those situations were unbelieveable and they were in the background when the finacial institutions unraveled  and added to the over bearing weight of the problems.

Todays problems are the fault of many both Democrats and Republicans as well as the Rich and Poor. Those problems are in fact over several Democratic and Republican Administrations. Lack of Oversight and adeqate Regulations both Democrates and Republicans are responsible.

The way out will not be easy nor quick and will require that our president focus on the main problems (FINANCIL INSTITUTIONS and HOUSING) not expand them. Believe me that will take all we have as a Nation to solve and live through. Do not go for Health Care Bailouts of failed Companies like GM. Free this and that for everyone both legal and illegle citizens. Jesus Christ use the God given wisdom that we all have COMMON SENSE. We have all we need on our plates do not try all this other crap that is really designed to distract from the Socialist Agenda.

The American People are not completely stupid, even though we have acted like it in this election.

BUSH IS NOT our president and Karl Rove is just another talking head at this time. We can not be a nation of Racist as we have a BLACK President Black and Brown Congress men and Congress women. We have BLACK and BROWN as well as YELLOW Mayors both male and female and some sex in doubt. We have gays in Congess and Charge of Cities and States.

SO GET OVER IT YOU GOT WHAT YOU WANTED and you now have total control to do whatever you want. However, you must remember that just about 1/2 of the Nation did not want it so dio not expect to accomplish all this with your messiah with out protest from the other 1/2 of this Nation.

So lets get to it, Obama IS THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. The Democrates control both the House and the Senate. The have Democratic Chairs of all important positions in Congress Finance Banking and the list goes on.

So quit making excuses for his lack of leadership. It is very apparent to many in this nation, many of those are Democrates, that he is in way above his head. He does not grasp nor even have a basic understanding of the finacial problems we face.

It proves in a very hard and ugly way just how important the job is. It further points to the fact that "DREAMING" of the perfect world and a utopia in America is just that "A DREAM".

It is very unfortunate that we as a Nation will have to learn the lesson in such a hard way but maybe it is for the best. If we as a Nation get hurt bad enough, We Will, maybe we will not forget. Then maybe we will start electing people based on qualifications not "Dreamy Words".

The pain that we are in for could be less and last a much shorter time, if we had a President that would act like one. He lacks the courage and the will to stand up for this Nation first and that will be his downfall. The shame is that we will  go down with him.

Believe me the people will not forget his lack of knowledge and experience. Nor will they ever forgive his lack of real courage and political will to fight for what is best for this country.

Maybe this is what is needed pain pain so great that we will forever remember.

So quit making excuses you have none with your having all the power FIX IT FIX IT NOW you have no one to blame if you are not capable of doing it except yourselves. Man I know that nusrt hurt you bad...NO ONE TO BLAME...DAMN!

[Dixie Dude]

I heard on Shawn Hannity the other day, that if everyone who made over $75,000 a year paid their entire income in taxes, it still would not be enough to pay for all the bailouts and the budget.  We are in big for the long haul.  My banker (Compass Bank) wanted me to refinance my mortgate last week.  He said we are expecting 18% interest rates by this time next year with high inflation to pay down the national debt with inflated dollars.  China has NO corporate income tax.  We have the highest in the world.  Why do you think the businesses are moving overseas.  China gets their tax money in income taxes from their workers.  We must bring industry back with lower taxes.  Once back, they can provide medical insurance for their workers, and more income taxes for the government.  Also, their is 9.3 TRILLION dollars sitting on the sidelines that was taken out of the stock market.  Stocks must begin to rise before they will reinvest.  Obama wanted to increase the CAPITAL GAINS tax on Stocks, why do you think people have pulled out.  If companies don't increase their net worth, they can't borrow.  If they can't borrow, invention and inovation can't exploit new ideas and inventions and market them to get started.  When the stock market goes up and stays up, we will pull out of recession in 6 months.  Happened 11 times since WWII.  People need to check their history.  Only one thing that we need is to overhaul the banking regulations so this won't happen again.  Will Obama listen, or is he trying to exploit this CRISIS to push his SOCIALIST agenda and have more people dependent on government handouts.  

[45-70.gov]

Those here that gloat about other people's misfortunes cannot see past their noses.

who  is gloating??
i have  lost  about  $100 thousand  in the last few  months
its  only  money  i will  make  more
just  did  real well  in  the 8 years prior

no  one  to  blame  or  thank....just the way  it is/was

i  know democrats  want  my gun rights.  tax me more and regulate my life  more  and more likely  to serender  our soverignty

[wareagleguy]

I do hate it when Shawn Hannity opens his mouth.  He is not doing the Republicans any favors.  He is spinning the truth when he says everyone over 75,000 paying the bailout he is ONLY talking about each taxpayer....not the major payers which is businesses.

Redtail,
Did you forget Franklin D. Roosevelt?  He had it twice as bad and did a fair job.

[Dixie Dude]

Roosevelt refused to give money to those unemployed or have any kind of welfare program.  He said it would destroy the peoples work ethic and make them dependent on the government.  He said to start work programs, roads, bridges, dams, TVA, planting trees, etc.  This made people feel as if they earned it.  Wareagleguy, Hannity was only showing how much money the government was spending, and how it could destroy the upper AND middle class.  I listen to Laura Ingram, Rush, and Shawn while I am out and about working.  I don't agree with everything they say, but no one else is saying it in the national media.  Oh, I live in Auburn, War Eagle.  I am conservative, Christian, and want the government out of our lives.  We also have lost over $200,000 in our retirement incomes.  I've lived long enough to know government can't solve all the problems and we have made a lot of people dependent.  In Tuskegee 80% of our utility bills go to women.  Also, in Tuskegee, $14 million dollars of total federal money goes there each fiscal quarter.  Why?  If you ride through Auburn, Opelika, and then go to Tuskegee, you wonder where the money is going.  The Auburn-Opelika area has around 70,000 people now and get very little in the way of Fed money, except for road work on State and US highways.  You can't give money away, people have to earn it to appreciate it and not waste. 

[Dixie Dude]

Trickle down does work, it worked under Reagan.  When companies value goes up with the stock market, it gives them more borrowing power, and thus power to expand.  Have you ever seen a poor person hire someone to work?  Have you ever seen a poor person run a business?  We need tax cuts bad.  Yes, banks need to be reigned in with new regulations regarding loans, no home loans unless the people have a down payment (vested interest) so they won't walk away from a home and mortgage, but work to try to stay in there.  Credit cards need to be reigned in also, and have ceilings based on one's income.  But we need tax cuts for Corporations and Capital Gains, to bring industry back and created investment incentives.  9.3 trillion is waiting to be invested, but owners of the money are fearful of future taxes.  I know of two doctors who said if they socialise medicine, they are going to leave the country. 

[Cabin4]

The economy likly will recover on it's own and obama's political payback pork bill will only have served to delay & retard the recovery.

[Redtail1949]

No sir I did not overlook F.D.R.

My mother and father died loving that man. They were young kids when the Depression hit south east texas and told me many, many times of the nights they went to bed hungry and all the younger brothyers and sisters crying themselved to sleep. They also mentioned their mothers crying and worried as to just how they would live. They both stated that their fathers as most men became very hard and put up with no nonsense. They would not tolerate any wast of food or mistake with care of the animals or crops. Thats just how desperate those days were.

Then F.D.R. instituted work programs that put people to work and helped them survive day by day. My parents and theirs did not give a damn where it came from or how it was paid for...they just were hungry and wanted their children as well as themselves to survive. I guess when your belly is empty politics is not the first thing on your mind.

The policies of F.D.R. were not sustainable and had it not been for Lend Lease and other programs prepareing for war or supporting the war in Europe the economy would have collapsed completely. Historians have sifted through the data many times over and the mojority have concluded that it was our entry into the war that saved us as a nation from the collapse that was very near.

I as well as others find it very ironic that it took a war to save us. However distastefull that may be, it is the truth.

F.D.R. during the war up until his death was an imspiring and beloved man. The right man at the right time. Not because of his ability to implement workable and sustainable programs, but because he could inspire the American people. The people were encouraged by his words and they were aware of the tragic circumstances that he the most powerfull man in America faced every day and that was Polio. He did not cry about it, he dids not give up, he faced his problems head on like a real man. He got out of bed every day and struggled with his crippleing disease and carried on.

The people saw him as a very strong willed man and they listened to him encourage everyone to face the challenges that lay ahead. They said if he could do it so could they. They knew as wealthy as he was he did not have to do whatr he did he could have stayed home and had maids and others tend to his every need. Yet he did not he got up every day and faced they problems of this country head on.

While I know that he had failed policy in place and do not agree that the took the right course for the nation. I have nothing but respect for him for trying with all his might to do what he felt was best for this nation. If there was one thing about him it would be that he never lost hope in this nation nor its people. He gave encouragement to a people on their knees beaten down and truly hurting. In our nations darkest times of peace and war he gave encouragement and hope. Hope and a backbone as strong as the steel that held his legs up and a love of this nation that everyone could see.

Do you get that kind of feeling from the present Administartion or anyone in it? Do you believe in your heart that Obama loves this country and all the people in it? Do you see any sign that the first interest of this president is the people as a whole? Do you see any sign of any kind of courage, political, personal or any other kind that makes you want to follow him into hell?

We have no political leaders with that kind of backbone none at all. So while I disgree with what he did I if I had been living at time would have supported such a man just like most of this nation did. I would not have had to agree with him. I would follow any man who had shown me that he was trying all he could to help the suffering of the people.

The present man does not inspire me nor millions of others he shows that the has no courage of any type and I will not follow him down the street.

So no I hgave not forgotten about F.D.R. as a matter of fact I dream of the day that we as a nation can look upon our President with real pride no matter who, what color, or party he belongs to. I WANT A LEADER NOT A WIMP!

[Skunk]

Read what is on his head stone....no wonder is wife was a cracker jack pistol shot.

I looked for it TM7, but I give up. Only thing I could find on pictures of his headstone was the dates of births and deaths of him and Elinore, and two other family members, IIRC. So what does it say?

[Skunk]

Thanks TM7, I had seen that on the memorial wall. Guess I was looking more for the epitaph on his headstone, but I couldn't find one.

[Skunk]

Thanks TM7, I had seen that on the memorial wall. Guess I was looking more for the epitaph on his headstone, but I couldn't find one.

Yeah...sorry to mislead,,,my mistake; but I wonder what is on his headstone if anything..? I got a few ideas...what might be on it, though.

..TM7

I'm curious about that too, but I could only find pictures of the one side of his headstone. Guess a person would have to make a visit to his grave site to see the other side of his stone.

[kinslayer1965]

Politics..........HHHMMMMMMMMMM

Ronald Reagan once said "Politics may be the second oldest profession, but it bears a striking resemblance to the oldest". He also refered to his beloved nation as "A shining city on a hill". I don't think it is to much to ask that the president of our country actually love his country and what it stands for.

That being said I do not believe that Mr. Obama even likes this country and we know what his wife thinks of it dont we.

Now just to prove that I remember what the original post was about......When W took office we were in a negative growth economy. The .com boom had busted and people were scared and scared people do not invest or spend. Less than one year in office and we suffer the worst attack on this country since 1941. By the way incase you were wondering FDR increased our national debt by over 900% and it was WWII that bought us out of the depression not his social policies. Back to W... his first financial moves was the "Bush tax cuts" as the MSM referres to them. They turned the economy around and we as a country enjoyed a 53 month streak of positive economic and job growth.This while our country is fighting fanatic islamist in two countries. The reasons for these wars are proably fodder for another thread so I will stick to the economy. We have had as a country some ticking time bombs waiting to go of for decades. The affirmative action lending policies of Jimmy Carter which were increased upon by Bill Clinton. It was indeed Bill Clinton's administration that mandated Fannie and Freddie's portfolios be made up of at least 50% low income and minority loans. It was also Clintons administration that threatened law suits if lending intitutions did not accept unemployment benifits and welfare as valid income for home loans. I might also add that while for the latter part of Clinton administration the Republicans did hoold the majority in the senate it was still Dems in charge of the senate and house finance oversight committes,,,,you know the guys you can watch on you tube screaming at the top of their lungs that fannie and freddie are fine and the republicans just want to roast Franklin Raines. You know the names.....Frank, Schumer, Dodd any of these names ringing any bells. The tuning point for the economy came when the Dem's took control of the senate back and one of their first actions was to try to pass the largest tax increase in this countries history. Luckily W vetoed that monster and they did not have the votes to overide the veto. Unfortunately the damage was done. It scared the bejesus out of everybody and as I said before people who are scared do not invest or spend. Then the sub-prime chickens start comming home to roost and the people who control most of the money in this country start thinks holy #^$% what if Obama gets elected and you guessed it less money being spent or invested. The economy has been going down and will be going down untill people start spending and investing. When that will happen is anybodies guess but Mr. Obama is not impressing me so far.

By the way incase anybody is wondering this country has had a national debt since the 1700s and no Bill Clinton did not erase our national debt. One of the things you have to look at as far as the national debt goes is how it compares to our gross domestic product. You find that the national debt under W as a percentage of our gross domestic product was almost identical to that of Bill Clinton. What that means is that as a nation under Bill clinton we did not spend as much but we also were not producing much either at least not at the levels we were in early 2007.

All of my Dem friends (yes I have some) tell me just give Obama a chance, Well I don't see that I have much of a choice....the man is President for good or bad. I hope we survive his socialistic ideas.

Every once in a while a thought come to me that cheers me up.......we had to go through a Jimmy carter to get to my beloved Ronald reagan. Yes we will survive.

[Dixie Dude]

I miss Reagan, I faired much better under his administration.  Hope we can find another Reagan by 2010 so we can win back congress with conservatives, even Democrat conservatives, libertarians or such, then win the presidency.

[kinslayer1965]

I am with you Dixie Dude! I think we will survive Obama but by the time he leaves office Jimmy carter will be looked upon as the second worst president this country ever had.