Author Topic: Finally shot the Knight Disc Elite .45  (Read 2832 times)

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Offline Busta

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Finally shot the Knight Disc Elite .45
« on: March 04, 2009, 04:32:09 PM »
It was chilly and windy this afternoon, but I have been itching to shoot this rifle. I have had some concern about the crown on this rifle, it was not very well done, and I think I may have it recrowned. Ignition was perfect with all loads, but I ran into a small problem with my favorite primers using 125 grain loads.

I eyeball bore sighted it prior to shooting, it actually was only 2-1/4" to the right and 1-3/4" high with a light 80 grain load of Blackhorn 209. After that shot I moved it back 9 clicks to the left and decided to leave the elevation where it was. I then loaded 120 grains of Blackhorn 209 and the 200 grain SST and shot again. That load printed 4" high and 1/2" to the left. I then turned it down 12 clicks to hopefully move the impact down 3" to be 1" high.




Next I shot the group in the lower right of the target. 120 gr BH209, 200 gr SST's, Win W209 primers, for a first group of 2.29". I wasn't real happy with this group because I thought I held better than that.




The next group was in the top left of the target. 110 gr BH209, 200 gr SST's, Win W209 primers, this group measured a more respectable 1.62".




I was saving the lower left for some heavy lead, I wasn't sure if the 1:30 twist would stabilize these bullets, and the first shot answered that question, without a doubt. No, not with 80 grain of powder anyway. I was aiming at the lower left bull on the target and the bullet struck near the upper right bull, going sideways through the target. This made a near perfect profile of that bullet. :o 80 gr BH209, 350 gr White Power Star saboted bullet, Win W209 primer, terminated that experiment after one shot.




So after that, I deceided to shoot one last group at the untouched lower left bull. My impact was 1" to 2" high where I like it, but it was averaging 1/2" left so I deceided to move the scope back 2 clicks to the right. This scope is the Leupold Ultimate Slam, so I am going to have to get used to sighting in right on the money, then checking the longer range dots for accuracy. My powder measure only goes to 125 grains, so I opened it all the way up to 125. 125 gr BH209, 200 gr SST, and this time I deceided to use my favorite Fed 209 primers. The group measured right at 1" exactly, but all three Fed 209A primers would not drop out of the NFPJ bolt extension. This is a minor annoyance, just need to recock and dry fire, and they all dropped right out after the dry fire. This knocks the primer back into the battery cup and allows them to fall out. I was pleased with this group.




After the last group my fingers were numb, so I packed it up for the day. I will probably shoot more later in the week, before I deceide whether I want to do the recrown, but it looks as if it may be needed. This was a new NFPJ conversion I bought just for this rifle, ignition was perfect, but it does allow a lot more soot/blowback into the bolt area. The one I have for my Disc Extreme lets very little pass by the primers. I think a little mod is in order for one of these plugs. ;)
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Offline rt_con

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Re: Finally shot the Knight Disc Elite .45
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2009, 03:24:29 AM »
Thanks for the report Busta !

I'm not happy about the blowback in my Knights' when using the hotter primer (Fed 209A) primers necessary with BH209.  I have the Leupold mount/rings like yours, but with low rings.  When I used 777, I went with the domed (Revolution) breach plug and CCI standard primers... very little blowback and no scope burn. :)

Now I'm using BH209 with the original concave plug and Fed 209A...  what a mess.  :o   I hope Knight has a fix for this with there Ultimate Slam bolt/BP conversion. ;)
 
Rob C

Offline Busta

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Re: Finally shot the Knight Disc Elite .45
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2009, 05:06:30 AM »
rt_con,

I hope the new plug and bolt will take care of the mess. I will try the other conversion in my Elite to see if it works as well as it does in the Extreme. Machining tolerences from one rifle/breech plug/adapter can change from another rifle/breech plug/adapter. Just a couple thousandths goes a long ways when you are dealing with the pressures. I really think most of it is due to the small flash hole, it just won't allow all the primer flame to flow through. I have a Metrics Unlimited Plug for my H&R Sidekick, it has a .040" flash hole, it lets the fire through, and with the o-ring I get no blowback. The only problem is it seals so well, the smoke/soot tries to seep out between the primer and the battery cup.

Here is a post I made last night at MM, it shows the bad crown on my Elite.

I had to compress the pics, I hope you guys can see them. I have a 22" screen and a blind man could see the poor crown on this rifle. If it were not one of the last ones, I would have sent it back. I will be getting it recrowned. Please excuse the dirty bore and the Q-Tip fibers, I just swabbed the crown and the first inch or so to take the pic. I got some new sabots and bullets today, plan on shooting again this weekend. First pic right side up, second pic upside down, little lop-sided to say the least.

What do you guys think? 



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Offline rt_con

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Re: Finally shot the Knight Disc Elite .45
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2009, 07:34:26 AM »
Busta,
I hear you about machining tolerances... I recently rec'd a second domed (Revolution) plug from Knight and it had real bad blowback in my Elite.   Just by taking an unprimed FPJ and pushing it over the nipple end, I could tell it was not as tight a fit as my first. I sent it back to Knight and they replaced it with a tighter one... but still not as tight as my first.  ???

I saw the pics of your H&R adapter over on MM... wish we had an option like that for the Knights. 8)  BTW... I modifed one of the domed plugs above like Lane's..opened the flame channel to 1/8" and the flash hole to .040.  I hope to try it with BH209 this weekend.

I checked the crowns of my 3 Knights (MK-85, Original DISC, and Elite).  All good, with the MK the best.  I think I'd take a shot fixing that crown myself...using UC's or Sabotloader's method.   ;)

I'm sure you'll keep us informed.. Rob
Rob C

Offline Reese

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Re: Finally shot the Knight Disc Elite .45
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2009, 07:43:35 AM »
  BTW... I modifed one of the domed plugs above like Lane's..opened the flame channel to 1/8" and the flash hole to .040.  I hope to try it with BH209 this weekend.


rt_con, did you have a chance to test your modifications yet?

Offline rt_con

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Re: Finally shot the Knight Disc Elite .45
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2009, 02:44:48 PM »
  BTW... I modifed one of the domed plugs above like Lane's..opened the flame channel to 1/8" and the flash hole to .040.  I hope to try it with BH209 this weekend.


rt_con, did you have a chance to test your modifications yet?

Reese.... Yes I did.  I tested it with both T7 and BH209.  I had no ignition issues using both W209 and Fed209A primers.  Unfortunately I didn't get to test in really cold temps like I wanted to.  I had no trouble matching my previously found T7 accuracy loads using 250 Barnes MZ's and 300 XTP's... both with Harvester short black sabots and W209 primers.  So I was happy the modified b/p still worked good with T7.

When I tried the BH209, I used the Fed209A's exclusively, since I don't think the W209 is reliable with BH209. I was not happy with the increased blowback and primer fouling with this b/p and the Feds.  And my groups were not as good as the T7 groups, but I didn't tinker with the powder/sabots too much.

I have since switched to the NFPJ conversion and Rem STS primers and happy to report very minimal primer fouling... (almost none !) ;).....  And very good results with BH209.  No ignition issues yet after over 200 shots.  My best load to date is 85-100grs of BH209, 300 XTP (.452) in the HSB.  Next is the Barnes 250 MZ in the Harvester Red Crushed Rib (Smokeless) or short black MMP sabot.  I'm still testing others.

Still concerned about the Rem STS/BH209 combo in colder weather.  In fact I e-mailed Toby Bridges in March and he told me he used the the NFPJ and Rem STS in his Knight LRH for December hunts with temps in the teens. And he is using the Rem STS's in his new Ultimate Slam.

 I just may switch over to the Fed209A's for cold weather hunting.. just in case. ;D

Hope this helps.
Rob C

Offline Reese

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Re: Finally shot the Knight Disc Elite .45
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2009, 03:39:54 AM »
Quote

I have since switched to the NFPJ conversion and Rem STS primers and happy to report very minimal primer fouling... (almost none !) ;).....  And very good results with BH209.  No ignition issues yet after over 200 shots.  


rt_con,  I have a NFPJ breech plug for the Elite and it is domed.  Is yours?  If it is domed, did you do anything to it like you did the FPJ domed breech plug?

Also, if I were to buy a new FPJ breech plug for an Extreme/Elite/LRH, do they now come domed or are the still recessed?




Offline rt_con

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Re: Finally shot the Knight Disc Elite .45
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2009, 08:31:01 AM »
Quote

I have since switched to the NFPJ conversion and Rem STS primers and happy to report very minimal primer fouling... (almost none !) ;).....  And very good results with BH209.  No ignition issues yet after over 200 shots.  


rt_con,  I have a NFPJ breech plug for the Elite and it is domed.  Is yours?  If it is domed, did you do anything to it like you did the FPJ domed breech plug?

Also, if I were to buy a new FPJ breech plug for an Extreme/Elite/LRH, do they now come domed or are the still recessed?






Reese... Yes the NFPJ plug is domed and I have not modified it.  Most people on the MZ forums I frequent, seem to be getting good ignition with the NFPJ when shooting BH209.  The one exception I know of is Grouse, who has reported hang fires with it.  Maybe the one he has is defective ?      I'll continue using it and certainly report back if I have any issues.

As far as I know, the new FPJ breech plugs for the Exteme/Elite/LRH are still concave.
Rob C

Offline rt_con

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Re: Finally shot the Knight Disc Elite .45
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2009, 12:54:47 PM »
Busta:  What did you end up doing about the crown of your .45 Elite ?  And you mentioned doing a "mod" of your NFPJ breech plug.  Anything to report on that ?

BTW... I finally shot my new .45 SS Elite and have to say they are SWEET !  I didn't mess around and went right to the NFPJ b/p and BH209.  It took only 3 shots to dial in.  Then 3 each of the 195 Barnes MZ's and 200 XTP's with Harvester smooth blue sabots.  Both MOA... the Barnes slightly better.

Just got it back from Knight... installed the quick release for the bolt.  I think this .45 Elite will replace my .50 !  And I'm on the lookout for another SS .45 Elite... my bud wants one too!  Come to think out it...I better get a back up for myself.    ;D
Rob C

Offline Busta

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Re: Finally shot the Knight Disc Elite .45
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2009, 01:19:50 PM »
rt_con,

I recrowned my .45 elite myself by hand, it does shoot better now.

I did do a mod on one of my NFPJ breech plugs. I deepened the primer pocket to accept a o-ring like my MU breech plug for my H&R/NEF's. It is cleaner than the standard plug and works very well. I still want to try a new type of o-ring in that, but haven't got around to ordering them yet.

I just did the quick release upgrade on my 1:20 .45 cal D.I.S.C. today, turned out great. ;D All my other disc rifles came with it from the factory. How much does Knight charge for the conversion? I only had to pay $4.50 for the quick release assembly from them, but didn't ask what they charge of doing the upgrade.

Those .45 cals are getting pretty scarce. Good luck!
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Offline rt_con

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Re: Finally shot the Knight Disc Elite .45
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2009, 03:53:28 PM »
rt_con,

I recrowned my .45 elite myself by hand, it does shoot better now.

I did do a mod on one of my NFPJ breech plugs. I deepened the primer pocket to accept a o-ring like my MU breech plug for my H&R/NEF's. It is cleaner than the standard plug and works very well. I still want to try a new type of o-ring in that, but haven't got around to ordering them yet.

I just did the quick release upgrade on my 1:20 .45 cal D.I.S.C. today, turned out great. ;D All my other disc rifles came with it from the factory. How much does Knight charge for the conversion? I only had to pay $4.50 for the quick release assembly from them, but didn't ask what they charge of doing the upgrade.

Those .45 cals are getting pretty scarce. Good luck!

Busta:  Yes, I saw your post on the o-ring modification for the H&R/NEF.  I kinda thought that's what you might do... but I also know you have lot's of tricks in your bag !  ;)    I have to say that in all 3 riflles I have the NFPJ b/p installed... shoot very clean with Rem STS primers...  Federal 209A are kinda dirty.

Knight charged me $30 for the quick release installation.... At least it was better than 2005 when they charged me $45 ! :o  Didn't know they would sell you the part to DIY... funny they never offered that info ???   That's OK.. they (Gordy) found a nice camo stock for me and even called me back the next day with a lowered price.

I know of a few NIB .45's Elite right now, but the price is too high.  I'll keep any eye on the forums for a used one. 
Rob C