Author Topic: My 45-120 ROCKS!  (Read 7271 times)

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Offline NFG

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Re: My 45-120 ROCKS!
« Reply #60 on: April 03, 2009, 09:19:31 AM »
I was afraid of that...most "standard" cases are throated for a "standard" bullet weight.  Most of the 720 bullets I miked ran about 0.450" down to the first ring...then .04585' to 0.459"...sort of a bore rider for the first 0.600"...I was guessing I would need a throater also, but just ordered my brass and the reamer will be here today or tomorrow.  By the time I get finished spending green on this project I could have just bought a 45-120 levergun, had a multishooter and not had all the "fun" of messing around.  :( ::) ;D....NAW!!!

I have the muzzle brake in the lathe getting ready to drill and thread...I will get a pic posted when it's all done...the brake makes a lot of difference...brings the calculated recoil down from around 80 ftlbs to about 45-50 ftlbs...hey, I'll take a bite of that any day...that's just about what my 416 Taylor does with 400 gr bullets at 2400 fs and this beast is tossing 720 gr bullets about 2000 fs....MY GODNESS, MISS MARPLE...WHAT HAVE YOU DONE??? 8) :o ;D

Enjoy your toys.

Offline tykempster

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Re: My 45-120 ROCKS!
« Reply #61 on: April 03, 2009, 04:05:19 PM »
45-120 Levergun?!?!?!?!  WHERE

Offline NFG

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Re: My 45-120 ROCKS!
« Reply #62 on: April 03, 2009, 08:50:43 PM »
Sharps and Pedersoli 1874 Quigley's...34" of pure de ol MEANESS...Uberty 1885 Hi-walls are all "Leverguns"...not to be confused with the multi-shot, tubular magazine "lever actions".  ??? ::) ;D  When I hit the lotto I will have at least one or two of each...  :P  :o  hahahahahahahah

I got the reamer today but didn't get at the chamber end...I was having too much trouble with the wowee in the barrel...I had to use my steady rest in the middle to keep the barrel from jumping up and down and the follow rest to hold the muzzle while I threaded it for the brake.  The muzzle is oblong, the barrel bowed over 0.030" and the muzzle walls are different thicknesses by 0.010"...the good thing is, the bow is on the vertical plane and so is the difference in wall thickness.  A bit dissapointing but you can't expect a perfect barrel at this price.

The brass is due Monday so I should have it finished by then and I can get down to shoulder whacking...I will definitely swap in the thumbhole stock for that dance.

Luck on you projects.

Offline tykempster

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Re: My 45-120 ROCKS!
« Reply #63 on: April 05, 2009, 06:08:34 AM »
The Sharp's and equivalents are weak though.  :-\

Offline NFG

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Re: My 45-120 ROCKS!
« Reply #64 on: April 05, 2009, 08:39:51 AM »
Weeellllll....that's debatable...I haven't measured the wall thickness on any of those barrels of modern steel, but I think they would handle any pressure that an NEF would...it would depend on the width of the flats of the octagon barrel.  Flats measure between 7/8 to 1" wide, depending.  At the size of the case and 720 gr bullet I would bet the recoil would be the limiting factor...not many can stand 60-100 ft lbs or more of recoil whomp that can be developed with loads in the <50 KPSI pressure range.

I got the chamber cut yesterday, the muzzle threaded...a couple of doodads for adjusting the Lee taper crimper for that LONG case and bullet made...and the MB setup and one hole drill yesteday...today I should finish the brake.

I worked up some beginning loads with LD5 for the 45-100 cases to get started with and I will try some of your loads when I get the Norma cases also.

The sun is beginning to stay around for more than two days at a time and the sage rats and ground rats will start coming out for a look around...at least the males will, so my garage time will start getting less and less and reloading time more and more.   ;D

Enjoy your toys.

Offline tykempster

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Re: My 45-120 ROCKS!
« Reply #65 on: April 05, 2009, 09:41:47 AM »
I was under the impression the action type couldn't handle more than trapdoor loads.  At least that's what I've always been told.

Offline NFG

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Re: My 45-120 ROCKS!
« Reply #66 on: April 06, 2009, 12:14:10 AM »
I wouldn't recommend going over whatever the makers recommendation for pressure is and I would have to know the pressure the rifle was proofed at before I would get too macho with the home loads...the modern replica trapdoors have plenty of putz in the barrel and frame, the only weakness would be in the locking mechanism...and I would bet they can handle a lot more pressure than I would ever try on. 

We're basically talking about the pressure on the cartridge case head being transmitted back against the locking mechanism and that can be calculated by the area of a circle formula...Pi x radius squared times the pressure in psi...in a 45-70 that would be (roughly speaking) 0.500/2 squared times Pi or 0.196 sq in x 50,00 psi or about 9800 pounds of pressure being spread around the area of the locking mechanism.  The rest of the pressure is spread around the area of the cartridge case walls which can be calculated by Pi x D(the diameter) x case length (2.1) divided into the pressure or Pi x 0.500 x 2.1 = 3.3 sq in divided into 50,000 or about 15,000 psi of that area and on the butt end of the bullet which is about the same size as the case head.  Of course it isn't quite this simple but close, we're talking about an open ended tube a fast burning, gas producing, highly flammable material doing it's thing in a few micro seconds.  Most steels used in building a rifle have a rating well over 100,000psi minimum...plain old bed spring, angle iron, flat stock, "farmers" steel etc, has a minimum rating of 42,000 psi at it's weakest point.

I don't take anyone but the makers word and the proofed pressure as far as where I would go in the pressure department.  I don't mess with old timey guns for many reasons and the question of metallurgy would top the list.

Lots of people say lots of things that are lots of wrong...you have to go at this thing with lots of information to be on the safe side.

Ruger #1, the high walls and other falling block types as well as other brands of break actions, are well known for the strengths of the actions, so I stick with what is already proven if I want to tear open the envelope and peek inside.

Murphy had his way with me again today...at the very last...and all the time and effort on the MB went by the wayside...tomorrow I will start again with a slightly different design and some new mills and drills.  I always learn something new with every success and every muckup...nothing is ever wasted.

Luck on your projects...and give me a hi-five or a lo-one or a horse laugh, I'm easy...BUT...I'm about sick of making muzzle brakes. >:( ::) ;D

Offline NFG

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Re: My 45-120 ROCKS!
« Reply #67 on: April 07, 2009, 10:00:06 AM »
Not trying to hi-jack your thread, AtlLaw...just add my tuppence and what was happening to me while I was mucking about.

Got the chamber reamed...it came out much better than the 45-100 rechamber...usually does when things go right and Murphy stays away. 

Right off the I saw I needed to throat... the chamber would only handle the 720 gr T-Rex at 3.90" COAL.  I ordered the throater this early this am...isn't the net wonderful.

The brass came in yesterday and I also found out quickly that the Norma rim is thinner than all the other 45xXXX brass by about 0.005"...I had the headspace set for 0.005" just in case I ran across rims that were thicker not expecting the opposite to happen, so with the Norma brass it is an excessive 0.010"...should have know Murphy was hanging around somewhere.

Not to worry...when the throater comes in I will face the receiver then install a shim.

I got started on load workup this am and as usual Murphy was buzzing around like flies on a pigs behind, bees on honey and skeeters on a hot body...in other words I had one Murphy after another trying to get my 45-70 Lyman dies set up for loading the 3.25" case.  Again...no sweat...just needed a swatter and a little lathe time.

I did fire off 4 rounds...weighed one at 130 gr H20...all the information I have on the 45-120 cases ranges from 113 to 131 gr of H2O...Ty:...this is the reason I don't take information at face value...I/you/we ALWAYS need to check sources and do your own measurements on your own equipment...way too many ways of messing up in this "wildcatting" thing of ours or even reloading the "standards".

The first load I fired was calculated on the 113 gr H2O weight so if the case had a larger volume it wouldn't cause a problem.  I used H4895, a 430 gr TRUSHOT bullet, WLR primer, seated to the crimp groove - 3.65" COAL...starting load was 75 gr calculated to be 2100fs at 38KCUP using Load from a Disk 5...after weighing the case and finding it was 130 H2O I recalculated it a ~2000 fs/33KCUP...quite a difference in velocity and pressure.

I fired 3 more loads of H4895 at 5 gr increment increases...starting at 80 gr and going to 90 gr where the case stuck but popped out when it cooled slightly...still the sticking is the stopping point...could have been the sizing wax not getting completely wiped off or could be the extra headspace and the load near the top...I will check it out again when I finish the throating, facing and shimming.

Calculated velocities are - ~(approximately) 80 gr, ~2150fs/38KCUP - 85 gr, ~2300fs/43.5KCUP, 90 gr, ~2450fs/49KCUP...with the throating this will change because of the jump of the 430gr bullet...basically a 0.600" free bore.

The 85 gr load produced ~25-47 ftlbs of recoil...with and without the muzzle brake...5000 plus ft lbs of energy...not too bad for an old girl that's been around for a long time...and still has lots of life in her.  There is some wiggle room here depending on the powder used and all the usual factors.  This load and bullet would work for ANY game on the planet as long as the bullet was placed right.

I didn't think the recoil was very bad, but I shoot a lot of heavy calibers and don't start getting jumpy until the slap is up around 100 ft lbs.

Here is a pic...I will need to reblue the barrel and blue the brake due to having a solid finger steady rest, not one with rollers.



I did some calculations using the 720 gr T-Rex bullet...at 4.5" COAL, 100 gr H4831, 1800fs the recoil runs about 43 to 76 with and without a brake...but the striking energy isn't much more than the 430 gr bullet...~5000 ftlbs to ~5100 ft lbs, (no nitpicking here...the numbers can change depending on which calculator you use and it is only a close approximation) but the recoil is about twice as much. 

The reason is that striking energy increases at the square of the velocity but only increases directly proportional to the bullet weight...in other words going to a bigger slug doesn't get you as much as going to a higher velocity...the good old E=MCsquared thingy...and the reason the high velo rifles get all there oomph...there is a point of balance between velocity and bullet weight for each caliber but finding it can wear out a barrel before you get to hunt with it.

The brake does work and doesn't cause any ear problems as long as you have ear protection, but you get a puff of air and smoke from it as always.  Lots of difference between 25 ftlbs and 50 ftlbs of recoil...and going to the 720 gr bullet REALLY makes a difference...up into the 85 ftlb range a 1900 fs without a MB and just below 50 with the brake... 

Anyway...it would be nice if others with a BC did this rechamber and posted their experiences.

Luck on your projects

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: My 45-120 ROCKS!
« Reply #68 on: April 07, 2009, 10:19:43 AM »
Not trying to hi-jack your thread,

You haven't, but you shouldn't worry about that one bit if you had!   ;D  This is great stuff!   ;)

So was it you that wrote that wrote that great review of the 45-100 some time back?  I've got to find that thing again.  Good info there also.

And what are you doing now?   ???  Did I miss something?  Or maybe I forgot bein senile and all...  :-[  Sounds like you are working up stuff for a 45-120!?   :-\  I didn't know you had one... or did I just for get you did?   :-\ :-\  I'm so confused...  :'( 
Richard
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Offline NFG

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Re: My 45-120 ROCKS!
« Reply #69 on: April 07, 2009, 03:12:31 PM »
I've been meaning to get at this 45-120 project since last year, but the weather keeps me out of my unheated garage until it warms up in the spring...and my 12 GaFH project got out in front also.

I did post some blurbs on my 45-100 rechamber and load workup...it or the 45 x 2.8" (110) are probably more efficient as far as velocity/powder ratios are concerned...and recoil levels...most people don't want anything to do even with those levels, and you start to need more and more powder just to equal the velocities of the smaller cases...the point of diminishing returns starts approaching fast as you get into the longer cases...at least with the NEF pressure limits...a bolt gun now is another story but the rimmed 45x120 case is so long you run into other problems just as fast.

Still...lots of bragging rights when you wave around that almost 5" loaded 45-120 case and offer someone a shot.  hahahahahahahah

I got the 45-120 reamer last week plus having a few fits getting the muzzle brake right ,so didn't get to make any smoke until today...I ordered the throater this AM and just got the email it is on it's way...should be here tomorrow noon and with any luck(none to be had at any price) I will get the throat done tomorrow...

It is supposed to start raining and snowing tonight through the rest of the week so I doubt I will get any shooting done. 

I'm down to a dozen 430 gr bullets so I will order some more...those Oregon Trails Trushot bullets are the most uniform cast bullets I have ever come across...they cost twice what regular cast 400 plus gr bullets cost but they are worth it if you want accuracy.  I will also order some 500 plus grainers also...where ever I can find them.

The forend for the Ultra Slug Hunter came Monday so between finishing the stock/forend for the 12GaFH, working up loads for that beast, working up loads for the 45-120, and trying to get some squirrel shooting in, I will be busier than a 4 legged person trying to stomp out a red ant nest.  ::) :o ;D

Enjoy your toys.

Offline NFG

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Re: My 45-120 ROCKS!
« Reply #70 on: April 08, 2009, 03:53:05 PM »
GOOOAAAOOOLLLYYY, Sargent...THAT'S WHAT I'M TALK'N' 'BOUT.

It's all done but the shouting...except for a few odds and ends to finish off, like steel bedding the receiver, milling a front sight dovetail and making another spacer... ;D

Started off about 9:30, 34° and snowing lightly...I was making chips as fast as I could through a rain of nose drip.  Throater arrived about 11 am and after a few fits and starts, like milling down the forend studs (that needed to be done since the beginning of this whole project) to clear the lathe borehole...I finished the throating about noon...it will handle 4.65" COAL but I will only load to 4.5". Had to make a 0.458" guide for my lyman case trimmer, a primer punch, modify the primer punch base to fit the OD of the Norma case, a guide for the flashhole uniformer, mill 0.005" off the ejector face and locking shelf because of the facing I did on the barrel, make a 0.010" shim and put everything back together again... :o ???

I need to make a 2.225" long spacer for the case mouth expander or buy new dies...guess which I'll do... 8) ;D

Prepped the 4 cases I shot off yesterday, checked the lengths of the other cases and found quite a bit of variation...from 3.27" to 3.23" so I set the trimmer to 3.225" and trimmed the fired ones.

I loaded 2 rounds with the 720 T-REX bullet...one with 85 grs of RL-19 and one with 90 grs and fired them off...calculated velocity is ~1700fs/36.5KCUP and ~1800fs/40KCUP with a 30" barrel...I had to do some chopping due to the front site and muzzle brake threading.

Calculated recoil for the 1800fs load is ~73 ftlbs without and 45 ftlbs braked...not in the 12GaFH 1100 gr league but about the same felt slap as the 750 gr/1800fs loads...just about the same slug weight, velocity and gun weights so they should be in the same recoil ranges.

Plenty wiggle room left to play with...I will put the scope back on it tomorrow and need to mill the front sight dovetail some day.  I will also add some more weight to get the total up to around 15 lbs then sight it in at 100 yds and call it good.

I will post the final numbers when the weather clears enough to get the chrono out and see where the pressures lead me...someday.

I'm not all that pleased with this Norma brass...too much variation in case length, the primer pockets were too shallow, about the depth of large pistol primers...and the rims being thinner than "normal" brass so I will order Bell or Starline if I can find some.

Enjoy your toys.


Offline AtlLaw

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Re: My 45-120 ROCKS!
« Reply #71 on: April 09, 2009, 06:49:12 AM »
Thanks for the report!  Great as usual!   ;D  Did you have any stabilization problems with the RR's?  ???
Richard
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Offline NFG

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Re: My 45-120 ROCKS!
« Reply #72 on: April 09, 2009, 12:42:15 PM »
Haven't got on paper yet...the weather is pizzy...rain, snow off and on...

Bell is out of business and Starline doesn't have th 45-120 cases so.....

Whether it will or won't stabilize depends on several factors...the bullet is right on the edged as far as length is concerned...a 1.68" bullet will stabilize in a 1-20 twist OPTIMUM and optimum means a lot of things, and a 1.69" needs a 19 twist "optimally"....that is from ~1700 to 2000 fs and it depends on the program you are using to calculate the "optimum" twist rate...gets sorta nitpicky, wadded paper, surreal until???...really the only way to know is to shoot some and see, making sure all the other things that make bullets go out of the group are taken into consideration and that the gun is accurate to begin with.  A slight amount of nose trimming will put you into the zone also...and I'm going to pointify the noses on a few...maybe run them into a Wilson deburring tool or ???

I'm busy drawing up a long pointy bullet design to turn out of brass and/or aluminum when I can get back to the lathe.  Roughly 1.5" -1.75" long, ~12° angle on the nose...should stabilize from 1000 fs on...not sure how much it will weigh, somewhere in the vicinity of 300-450 gr depending on what the final length and actual taper ends up...might be interesting.

Luck on your projects.

Offline tykempster

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Re: My 45-120 ROCKS!
« Reply #73 on: April 09, 2009, 04:40:31 PM »
I would love to test the pointy boolits!  ;)

Offline NFG

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Re: My 45-120 ROCKS!
« Reply #74 on: April 09, 2009, 08:00:25 PM »
Lehigh bullets has several solid brass bullets in 0.458, different configs for hunting, match, etc, plus some aluminum ones for ultra hi velo...my design is basically a combination of copying those bullets and regular ol' everyday types with the emphasis on simplicity...I'm a bit limited on what shapes I can produce with the my lathe, mill and tooling...no fancy curves...nose shape similar to Hornady bullets.

Hopefully...once I see if the design will stabilize at the expected velocities for the 1-20 twist I will get an estimate from the local CNC shop and put some curvature to the ogive just to make it look more like a bullet instead of a miniature hiway cone.  ::)

The bullets will cost in the $0.50 to $1.00 range...definitely not for varminting!!!  I would sell/trade some for cost plus shipping at that time to any that are interested.

I ordered 4' of 1/2" brass rod late today so I should be turning boolits by Wed week...I need to grind some tools I think.   :D 8) ::)

Enjoy your toys

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: My 45-120 ROCKS!
« Reply #75 on: April 10, 2009, 04:38:23 AM »
Well there you go Tyler!   ;D
Richard
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Offline NFG

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Re: My 45-120 ROCKS!
« Reply #76 on: April 10, 2009, 06:27:30 AM »
I keep hallucinating about a stub barreled 45-120, 1-10 twist, using a 12 ga USH barrel as the donor receiver...34-36" barrel...brass or aluminum bullets shaped like the Hornady A-Max 50 cal at 2500-3000 fs...then decided a 50 x 140 would be less of an halluncination and more of an illusional representation of an alternate reality... :o ::) ;D...at least bullets and cases are available....I need to start measuring.  8)

Of course you Kalifornica's can't have one or anything like it...you're about to loose your air rifles too boot.  Definitely worse than England, Australia and Russia all wrapped up in one package.

Luck on your project.

Offline NFG

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Re: My 45-120 ROCKS!
« Reply #77 on: April 10, 2009, 11:11:23 AM »
Got a few loads chrono'ed before the whizzing began...at least I'm getting 4 steps forward for each step backwards.... ;D :o

720gr Ranger Rick T-Rex/90 g RL-19/4.50" COAL/1799fs/5200 ftlbs energy - ~40KCUP...cases popped out nicely...THIS IS TOP FOR MY GUN AND PRESSURE FOR THE NEF...5 more grains stuck the case!!!! 

430gr Oregon Trails TRUESHOT/85 gr HODGDON 4895/4.00" COAL/2450fs - ~47.5KCUP/5700 ftlbs energy...cases popped out nicely also...THIS IS TOP FOR MY GUN ALSO...5 more grains stuck case again. This load is in the same neiborhood as the 458 Lott....not a bad neighborhood to be in... 8)

Both these loads were about 85% volumetric capacity...

Someday I might futz around with RL-22 or IMR 7828 to see if I can come up with a 100% load at the different bullet seating depths and to see if I can gain some velocity and accuracy.

Weighed the rifle...#9.5...sometimes it is good NOT to know too much...NOT KNOWING kept the twitchy finger away.  Hahahahahahah

The recoil level for the 720 gr load calculated to 91/60(MB) ftlbs/9.5 lb rifle...78/47 for a 12 lb rifle...they were stout but no worse than some heavy 10 and 12 ga goose loads. 

The 430 gr load calculated to 71/40(MB) ftlbs/9.5 lb rifle...55/31 for a 12 lb rifle...the braked recoil is about the same as an 8 lb 300 WM 180 gr bullet at 3200fs.

Either of these loads will handle ANYTHING that walks the earth, but the 430 gr load would be slightly better due to the lower recoil and higher energy...and still have plenty of penetration with these hard cast bullets.

I added the OEM steel rod that came with the 12 USH which brought the weight up to 11.25 so I will add a little more lead to the forend and drill another hole in the stock for more still. 

REMEMBER...DON'T ADD MUCH MORE WEIGHT TO AN AFTERMARKET FOREND THAN A TOTAL WEIGHT OF 1 LB...I DID THAT AND SHEARED OFF THE OEM FOREND MOUNT...THE PERTINENT INFORMATION IS IN THE STICKY'S...

You can have the forend mount TIG or MIG welded to the barrel carefully without causing any problems...I would suggest doing it if you plan on adding one of Gunstock Inc's target forend and also adding lead weight.  My Target forend weighs 1.3 lbs in this BC but I added an additional mount, then screwed and sweat soldered it just in case...one heavy forend flying past my head when it got loose is enough.  :o

Luck with your projects.

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: My 45-120 ROCKS!
« Reply #78 on: April 10, 2009, 01:20:58 PM »
720gr Ranger Rick T-Rex/90 g RL-19/4.50" COAL/1799fs/5200 ftlbs energy - ~40KCUP...
430gr Oregon Trails TRUESHOT/85 gr HODGDON 4895/4.00" COAL/2450fs - ~47.5KCUP/5700 ftlbs energy...

 :o

Quote
Both these loads were about 85% volumetric capacity...

You didn't use any filler at this level did you?   ???
Bunch of great info there.  Did you get your loads from Quick Load?
I tell ya, a guy could play around with this case and all the different bullets out there for years just seein what he could come up with!   ;D  Not to mention what Bambi would do when hit behind the shoulder w/5K+ FPE!   :o
Keep this info coming!   ;)
Richard
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Offline tykempster

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Re: My 45-120 ROCKS!
« Reply #79 on: April 10, 2009, 04:05:06 PM »
I declare a new manlaw! Anything you shoot with a 45-120 must be documented and photographed then shared on this forum.

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: My 45-120 ROCKS!
« Reply #80 on: April 10, 2009, 04:48:12 PM »
The Tyke Meister has spoken!  So shall it be written, so shall it be done!   ;D
Richard
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Offline mechanic

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Re: My 45-120 ROCKS!
« Reply #81 on: April 10, 2009, 05:17:04 PM »
I declare a new manlaw! Anything you shoot with a 45-120 must be documented and photographed then shared on this forum.


Better shoot BIG stuff...or get a macro lense.
Molon Labe, (King Leonidas of the Spartan Army)

Offline NFG

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Re: My 45-120 ROCKS!
« Reply #82 on: April 10, 2009, 07:48:16 PM »
I use "Load from a Disk" Ver 5 and check against WinLoad or another Powley Computer program...all programs agreed within statistical parameters...

The Winload and other Powley Computer programs calculate a load at an initial pressure of 45KPSI and 86% case capacity for IMR powders to be used in a "normal" chamber...the Powley computer has been around a long time and the formulas he developed are used in many programs for calculating INTERNAL ballistics.

After trimming my cases run about 125gr H2O and that is the number I used to calculate the loads....

BUT YOUR H2O VOLUMES MAY BE DIFFERENT BECAUSE OF DIFFERENT SEATING DEPTHS, TRIM LENGTHS and length of the throat!!!  A "freebore" throat will reduce the pressures and velocities...My gun has an extra 0.150" of "freebore" which influences pressure and velocity while yours may not have any "freebore"....using the posted loads without the extra freebore and not starting at least 10% below could cause a pressure spike and a nasty surprise.

These loads are "ABOUT" 85% volumetric WITHOUT a bullet seated...in both the loads I posted. the bullet bases were very close to top of the powder column so no fillers are required.

The 430 gr bullet was seated 0.350" deep and the 720 gr bullet was seated 0.435" deep.

These two loads don't show any pressure signs in my gun.

I SEE A MISPRINT IN THE 430 GR LOAD...THE PRESSURE SHOULD HAVE BEEN ~40KCUP!!!...I WAS LOOKING AT THE WRONG COLUMN WHEN I WAS POSTING THE INFORMATION...I POSTED THE LOAD DENSITY INSTEAD OF THE POWDER CHARGE.

THIS IS A VERY GOOD EXAMPLE OF WHY NOT TO BELIEVE ANY LOAD DATA POSTED ON THE NET WITHOUT CHECKING IT OUT FIRST...AND WHY I USUALLY DON'T POST ANY LOAD DATA...MISPRINTING INFORMATION CAN CAUSE VERY BAD ACCIDENTS.

My chrono gave 2450fs and the LD5 gave ~ 2300fs for the H4895.

Winload gave a starting load of IMR 4320 and velocity that are too high I think, and I would drop it by 5 gr at least even though 4320 is closer to the burning rate of RL-15...

ALWAYS START LOW AND WORK UP SLOW.

Personnaly I wouldn't use anything much larger than a quarter bore for bambi unless I just wanted a pile of dogfood and was too lazy to cut it up... :o ;D...this cannon would work perfect for that.  :D ::)

I shot my first bambi with a 12ga Winchester Slug and lost almost the whole front end and it wasn't all that big to begin with...by the time what's left of the meat was scattered around to the various participants I ended up with 7 lbs of venison hamburger, one small roast and two small steaks...that bit of meat ran me $5.47 a lb in 1960 dollars.  After that I only invited one other hunter to go along and I/he/she got only a quarter for being the wrangler if only one animal ended up taken.

Luck on you projects


Offline NFG

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Re: My 45-120 ROCKS!
« Reply #83 on: April 11, 2009, 10:54:31 AM »
Hummmmmm...as usual...good part/bad part...Good part...I worked up a nice load with IMR4320 and the 430 gr bullet, fired 10 shots in one case, velocity  WAY up there...Bad part...I ran out of bullets, the shim slipped out, the stock loosened up and started wiggling, one case kept doing hang fires and the sun was messing with my Beta Chrony. ;D >:(  ??? :'(  :P

Time to fall back and fix all the little things and wait for the bullets to arrive.

First to do...Trim the hammer face to get a slightly deeper firing pin strike...then take your pick... thread a steel "pillar" and bed it in the stock so the wood won't continue to crush out, epoxy the shim in and hope it stays(haven't had ANY luck in this department), add the extra weight to the forend and stock...by the way the steel rod that comes in the USH stock is 7 7/8" long, 7/8" OD and weighs 1.33 lbs(about 2.6 oz/in) available at any iron monger and fits my BC perfectly...much cheaper than all the mercury filled devices.

Not to be coy, but after my last faux pas I'm done posting loads.  I will post the powders that seem to work the best for the cartridge/caliber, bullet, COAL, primer etc, but not the amount or the velocity...you can find much of that information by running a Powley program.  :-X

For those that want to do their own Powley calculations here is one powley copmputer URL;

http://kwk.us/powley.html

There are several available to use online, you just have to do a search...several gun related component producers have it available in/on their sites.

I have three other powders to try in time...AA2460 and AA2700, and RL-15...all have similar burning characteristics and AA2460 is probably the best powder for the 45-70 as I have already found out.

Anyway....C'Ya later

Luck on your projects.

Offline tykempster

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Re: My 45-120 ROCKS!
« Reply #84 on: April 11, 2009, 06:31:59 PM »
IMR 4320 and 405 grain Remingtons is the ticket!  2500+ fps!

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: My 45-120 ROCKS!
« Reply #85 on: April 12, 2009, 03:55:17 PM »
Man, you guys are the cat's meow!   ;D  I've already got Ty's loads and the stuff you come up with is great NFG!  I can't wait 'till deer season to try some of these loads out!   :D
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Offline petemi

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Re: My 45-120 ROCKS!
« Reply #86 on: April 12, 2009, 04:32:19 PM »
Richard, if dem loads don't kill nuthin, it's you, not dem boolits.  They'd knock my barn down ::)  It's already "Dead Barn Farm" cause it took a friend's .45 patched round ball thru the back wall.  I guess a 120 would make her feel really dead.  ..............you can stand inside to shoot if you want a little advantage and you're comfortable with that.  Margin of error might be less. :P  Just messin' wid ya, loving this thread.

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Offline tykempster

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Re: My 45-120 ROCKS!
« Reply #87 on: April 12, 2009, 06:02:26 PM »
I tried a 500 grain cast bullet under 90 grains IMR 4831 today.  It kicked a fair bit more than my standard 405 grain loads.  It also went through an 18" post!  If I can find someone to cast bullets for me this might be my new "standard" load.

Offline NFG

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Re: My 45-120 ROCKS!
« Reply #88 on: April 12, 2009, 09:47:09 PM »
Beartooth has some nice 525gr "Piledrivers", Jae-Bok Young has his 550 Craters, Gardners Cache has some 515 gr available...most run about 25 bucks plus/minus a couple plus shipping,  and there are several more 500 plus grain bullets available on the net...just have to search...I have some Beartooth 525's on order to check out and will order some of Gardners sometime this week...

A 500-600 gr bullet would be the better choice for the 45-120, I think anyway...probably the best balance between the "hi-velo" 405's and the "lo-velo" 720's as far as velo/powder amount/energy is concerned...but you could turn this beast into a real screamer with a long, pointy 300 gr solid brass or 200 gr ALUM slug...a janyouwine "varmister".  Hahahahaha

RL-19 would be another good powder to check out, along with H4831 and AA2700 usually gives the highest velocity and lowest pressures.  You could go a little more...two grains at a time to around 102 gr...before you hit the wall...LD5 goes to 108gr with a Hornady 500g RN...2385/49KCUP/~6400 ftlbs M.E.(84 ftlb recoil with a 10 lb unbraked rifle) and that's with a jacketed bullet which pushes the pressure up a little higher than a cast bullet...SOMETIMES...just start low and work up slow and watch for pressure signs.  The 90 gr load is about 80% load density at 4.2" COAL...~2000fs/35KCUP/~4400 ftlbs M.E....about 60 ftlbs of whackadoodle-doo with an unbraked 10 lb rifle.

One good thing about the NEF...the case will stick enough so it won't eject before the pressures get out of hand...SOMETIMES... ::) :o.

I got the steel rod inserted into the stock for the through bolt...the shim glued back in, steel weight rod inserted in the stock...sighted in with some 350 gr cast lead loads...at least for windage...it was off 8" left at 50 yds :o >:(...and faced the hammer 0.020" - no more squibs...Not sure if I will add any more weight up front...it balances just in front of the hinge right now...right where I like it...Adding weight would only muck things up. Just have to do the front sight dovetail and that isn't a priority as I use a scope anyway.

I even turned the steel through bolt rod for my 12GaFH thumbhole stock and will get it installed tomorrow.  Always something to make, load or shoot...I get NO rest... ;D ???  8)

Luck on your projects.

Offline tykempster

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Re: My 45-120 ROCKS!
« Reply #89 on: April 13, 2009, 02:02:13 PM »
I stick to 40k pressures in my 45-120.  It is still getting over 2200 fps with 500 grain bullets.  When I get the money for a Ruger #1 to ream out then I'll take it to the limit...one more tiiime.  To quote the Eagles...