Author Topic: 3 lost at sea off the coast of Florida, 1 survives.. (Read 9780 times)

Cabin4 · « **Reply #30 on:** March 09, 2009, 05:08:52 PM »

Quote from: Dee on March 09, 2009, 04:31:01 PM

cabin4, you sir, are judge mentally asinine and I from now own will treat you with the disrespect you so richly deserve. You are not worth knowing. You are not only disrespectful of the dead, and manner less, you are representative of the chicken-s__t california attitude, that as a Southerner I so detest. You are forever on my ignore list. I doubt you will miss me, and surely will not miss you.

Dee,

That’s way too funny but I will consider wearing those labels like badges of honor. I’m not going to put you on my ignore list. I’m always open to input even from those I think are hypocrites, stupid and or responsible for the decay of our country. Are you sure you’re a southerner? I never made you out to be from the south. For some reason I'm of the strong impression you are from Massachusetts, Connecticut, New York region. I'm curious now, what’s the geographical origin of the 3 dead of the coast of Florida.

I think the prior comments about cleaning up the gene pool are “spot on” and the actions of stupidity of these 4 needs to be yet further explored here which is the point of this thread.

We should really get back on the subject here Dee and let’s not distract from the subject.

pastorp · « **Reply #31 on:** March 09, 2009, 07:46:11 PM »

cabin4, You sure like the word stupid among others. I think Dee is just offended by your choice of words. I believe you, as a gentelman, could find a few words that express your thoughts but are less abrasive.

Why don't you try it, you may like being nice. Regards

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #32 on:** March 10, 2009, 02:18:19 AM »

it is very easy to sit back and talk about the bad judgement , i said people should pat attention to small craft warnings and they should .
That sais let me share an experice - we went to fish the Gulf Stream . 70 miles off the bridge at nags head . beautiful day calm we had landed 5 fish with in an hour of dropping the first bait in the water . there was another boat about a mile and a half ne of us that the captin had been talking with . all of a suden the other captin came over the radio and said he was getting hit by a north easter , came up all of a sudden . We started bringing in our lines but before we could get them in the captin yelled to cut them and get in the cabin . when i looked up it was the worst storm i had ever seen comming across the water . the seas went to 8-10 feet . the other boat was comming and off to our port side . one min. she was on a wave the next she was in the air with nothing under her . we were in 55 ft. sport fishers . we got thrown around pretty good . Both captians had years of experince . it was my 8th or 9 th trip to the gulf at the time . the only other bad trips i experinced was on an 80 foot head boat 8 ft. seas , a cruise liner 40 ft sea and the worst was in the bay 8 ft. + seas in a 40 foot head boat ( we knew is was bad when we left the dock ) . I will never go in rough water again if i know it . But sometimes it comes up with little or no warning . A storm has to start somewhere and if you happen to be there you might be the first to know .
I have no idea what happened to those guys but i can't believe they went out intent to hurt themselves .

Questor · « **Reply #33 on:** March 10, 2009, 03:19:22 AM »

ShootAll:

That is an excellent example. Radar is really great, but sometimes storms form close by. In smaller boats, even tide changes can spell trouble if you're not familiar with the currents.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #34 on:** March 10, 2009, 05:43:44 AM »

i went on a cruise to the bahamas a few years back

the boat was HUGE......11 floor levels on the elevaders...8 elevaders

much wider than most boats are long......huge

my cabin was about water level and towards the back
probly the most stable part of the boat

we got into a storm that about rolled me out of bed a few times
i was too seasick to go see what could toss a boat like this
to this day i regrat not going up on deck to see those waves

Questor · « **Reply #35 on:** March 10, 2009, 05:48:32 AM »

45-70:

I wish I had seen it too. I've been in small boats where you rise and fall with the crests and troughs of the waves. One moment you are looking at the ocean in the distance, the next moment you are looking up at the tops of the waves high above the deck. It's spectacular.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #36 on:** March 10, 2009, 05:54:56 AM »

Quote from: pastorp on March 09, 2009, 07:46:11 PM

cabin4, You sure like the word stupid among others. I think Dee is just offended by your choice of words. I believe you, as a gentelman, could find a few words that express your thoughts but are less abrasive.

Why don't you try it, you may like being nice. Regards

Stupid just seems to fit real well. Think about it in the context of this incident and the circumstances. 3 people are dead and I see no reason to sugar coat the incredibly poor decisions they made. Has the press highlighted any of this? No. So who’s served by the reporting and or does it give other people something to think about if your contemplating a boat trip out into the open ocean? No.

I’m not really worried about anyone particular persons opinion of my choice of words or the style of my posts. I’m also not interested in being PC. Being PC can often blur the truth. Some like to have it both ways. They criticize you for the exact same things they themselves constantly do. If them putting me on their ignore list allows them to sleep better at night, they should go right ahead and do it. I suppose that’s why that capability exists.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #37 on:** March 10, 2009, 06:11:05 AM »

we could say ''they died doing waht they loved''
or ''what adventurers they were''

we or our kids may even want to follow in their food steps

but to be cruel and call them stupid..............MIGHT SAVE A LIFE NOT LOST YET

p. s. i have done much stupider than they have......like body surfing during a hurricane

WylieKy · « **Reply #38 on:** March 10, 2009, 06:57:34 AM »

Quote from: Dee on March 09, 2009, 10:33:59 AM

WE GOT AWAY with our stupid mistakeS. Ya Think?

As a teenager (and to be honest early 20's) my buddies and I used to blow up propane tanks by putting firestarters around them and then shooting them. We had two near death experiences.
1.-The bullet only pierced 1 side of the tank. It flamed for a couple of min until the pressure let off then fell over onto the hole. We went over to kick the tank into the pond so it would cool and it was still about 1/4 full. As soon as the white hot hole was exposed to the air again more gas came out and reignighted. We all lost some eyebrows.
2.-We made some thermite and set it on top of a propane tank and ignighted it. It burned though a LOT quicker than we though it would. It also made a MUCH bigger hole than a bullet. We were only about 15-20 yards away when it went off and all lost a little hair and had "sunburn" all over our backs. That was the last time.

These guys messed up and paid the price and I wish that they had had the opportunity to learn and live instead of learn and die. I've been around lakes, rivers, and oceans my entire life. Water is foreign and unforgiving. Even professionals die on the ocean. From what I understand happend their anchor was stuck and they flipped the boat trying to unstick it. They should have just cut the rope, but they pushed it just a little too far.

swordfish · « **Reply #39 on:** March 10, 2009, 07:15:15 AM »

Quote from: cabin4 on March 07, 2009, 06:44:39 AM

What are your thoughts on this given whats been reported?

I was 15 miles off Florida's East coast the same night. Same size boat, not anchored. crap happens real fast sometimes. The end result is most often dictated by your reactions to the situation. All of us who swordfish in the middle of the night 15-20 miles offshore have a game plan set, in case the worst happens. At least those who respect their own lives do. It was very sad and my wife is besides her self with grief for the ball players. Needless to say she gives me a rash of crap everytime I head out to the sword grounds now.
I could go on and on about what they should have done, but that wont help.
God bless them, it's a hell of a way to die.

Swordfish

Tackleberry · « **Reply #40 on:** March 10, 2009, 08:20:11 AM »

I have been off that coast (further up, out of Steinhatchee Florida) The gulf is shallow out to about 25 miles and any wind raises up chop to 2 -4 feet. The day I went out we were in the company of another boat and it was smooth and then started picking up chop. We high tailed it. We were out about 12 miles. In bad chop and following seas you need to put your seamanship skills to use, the sea does not always allow you to follow your GPS home in a straight line. We were concerned mostly with getting to land fall safe and sound, not necessarily WHERE we landed. We figured we could always backtrack later. We put on vests and had our emergency supplies tied to us. And, it wasn't even as rough as they experienced and our water temp was about 83 degrees when we were out. We were in an 18 foot Trophy. My years in the Navy taught me a few things..mainly to have a really sizeable respect for how quick the sea can kill you, and STAY WITH THE BOAT.
I feel sorry for these gents that they did not know enough to protect themselves, and also that they apparently lost hope and most gave up.

LCDR USN (RET)
NRA LIFE Member

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #41 on:** March 10, 2009, 09:07:10 AM »

Quote from: 45-70.gov on March 10, 2009, 06:11:05 AM

we could say ''they died doing waht they loved''
or ''what adventurers they were''

we or our kids may even want to follow in their food steps

but to be cruel and call them stupid..............MAT SAVE A LIFE NOT LOST YET

p. s. i have done much stupider than they have......like body surfing during a hurricane

Tim. Would that by chance be ( I think ) hurricane Hugo? It went right up the Florida coast and past Fernandina Beach Fl. If that was the one I was pretty stupid too. Me and my friends went surfing down on the south end of the island. The waves must have been pretty close to 20 feet. After being slamed a few times by these big waves me and my friends went looking for smaller waves on the north end of the island. The wave were always bigger on the south end. After a day of surfing and getting beat up by the waves we rented 2 motel rooms at that motel on main beach and threw a hurricane party with a keg and lot of booze. That was not smart. Good thing it did not make land fall there like they predicted. I can't remember the name of the hurricane now but I think it was Hugo. Dale

ShadowMover · « **Reply #42 on:** March 10, 2009, 09:32:55 AM »

Evolution in action. The guy that survived had the resolve to hang on. You can bet he won't go out in that kind of situation again. He and his DNA will be around next year in the gene pool. The other ones, God bless their souls, are back into the 'bit bucket'.

from Readings: Harpers Magazine Nov 1994
Fatal Accidents: The bright side
Every day some new do-gooder is trying to save us from ourselves. We have so many laws and safety commissions to ensure our safety that it seems nearly impossible to have an accident. The problem is that we need accidents, and lots of them. Danger is nature's way of eliminating stupid people. Without safety, stupid people die in accidents. Since the dead don't reproduce, our species becomes progressively more intelligent (or at least less stupid). With safety, however well-intentioned it may be, we are devolving into half-witted mutants, because idiots, who by all rights should be dead, are spared from their rightful early graves and are free to breed even more imbeciles. Let's do away with safety and improve our species. Take up smoking. Jaywalk. Play with blasting caps. Swim right after a big meal. Stick something small in your ear. Take your choice of dangerous activity and do it with gusto. Future generations will thank you.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #43 on:** March 10, 2009, 09:45:45 AM »

he was the king on the hill sort of speak , were the others hurt in the roll over ? could they have gotten on the boat with him ? was there room ? maybe he remembers maybe not .

pastorp · « **Reply #44 on:** March 10, 2009, 10:34:10 AM »

Stupid, implies a low IQ.

Un-informed, implies a lack of knowledge needed to handle yourself in and emergence.

common sence, is the ability to figure out a way out of a bad situation.

I don't believe any of these men were stupid.

What Dee is talking about is that Southern gentelmen don't talk bad about people behind their back, especiality the dead. They can't defend themselves. None of us know how they came to be in that situation or how they made the decisions they did.

I was raised on the Florida gulf coast and know the dangers there as well as anyone. For the past 12years I've lived in southeast alaska and have done considerable boating here. You would not believe the storms we get up here. Hurricane force winds combined with 20+ foot tides. At least their are lots of places to hide and wait it out. We lose several watercraft each year of all sizes. We get equiptment checks from the coast guard frequently. Carry emergency beacons and survival suits and yet some still never make it back to port. Some boats and sailors are never found. I don't believe they are all stupid.

My best friend spent 2 tours of duty in nam, a law enforcemt carear, and a lifetime of hunting and fishing. Reciently we were discussing the way we spent our lives. His only regret was the way he had treated many people. Said if he could do it over the only thing he would change was he would "treat people nicer"

IMO the defination of a Gentelman is someone who treats others better than they treat him. It is a characteristic that is admired by most.

JMO, Regards

Cabin4 · « **Reply #45 on:** March 10, 2009, 11:10:55 AM »

I've been around the country quite a bit in my days and I've met many southerners and then I've met people who live in the south. I'll remind you that many true blue Yankee’s now live in the south the last time I was there which was in Texas last summer. I was amazed at how many so called southerners I met there the likes that would make anyone, no matter your origins- throw up! Come here to Kalifornia if you want to throw up too. It’s all over the damn country.

But with all do respect this is a ridiculous discussion point on this topic. People from all over this country can read posts here and either like, dislike it or have no opinion on it. It has nothing to do with your geographical origins. Discussing the situation of people lost at sea is not a north – south –east or west thing. It’s just a topic and to put a geographical spin on it that implies one region has a superior view over another on discussions of death is just pure childish gibberish. For some the ignore capability may be a good tool that can help them continue their fantasy of the day……

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #46 on:** March 10, 2009, 11:40:18 AM »

not really cabin4 , people have different views , show respect and well think different . The geo location where you are from to a degree formulates these traits . A person who lives in ND would have had a different life experince than someone in NY city . You are correct many yankees have moved to the South we call um da-- yankees . It goes to prove they don't like living with their own kind . As far as superior , well maybe so in some respects . A guy who never went to sea would not have as much experince as one who lives on the water etc. .
I guess you are having a hard time understanding this concept . I had a life experince on several occasions that brought it front and center to my attention . I have walked into several out of the way , old bars and as i was clearing the door someone would remark " THEY AIN"T FROM ROUND HEAR " i knew right then we were different and they were superior in their thinking at that point !
IE: i knew when to shut up and leave !

WylieKy · « **Reply #47 on:** March 10, 2009, 12:08:17 PM »

I was born in the North. I moved to the South as soon as I could. Best years of my life.

Tommyt · « **Reply #48 on:** March 10, 2009, 12:48:12 PM »

I live one Mile From the Dock they Left out on
That Puts me 40 Miles from were they found them
that and a 1.00 will get you or me a Cup of Coffee
so now that I sound as stupid as some others that have posted
I Will say this
Those poor Guys made ONE and ONLY ONE, mistake
they went off shore thinking they would have a Good Day of fishing
they never ever thought of what was too come
But remember those who choose to be azclowns and call them fools
I hope it never knocks on your Door

They made ONE mistake the Left Port for a FUN day of fishing
everything else that happened was terrible group of mishaps
that no-one would have for seen
and no-one will ever no how it happened
I will say this I know a couple of guys who lost a boat or 2 too the Gulf
and each one will tell you POOP happens before you can say it
Don't think that the Great Experienced ones don't donate a boat every now and then
Woulda Shoulda Coulda
I believe they did not Die in vien
Their story will save many more than 3 IMHO
God bless them and Their Familys

,Let them go in Peace
Don't try to Degrade them

Cheesehead · « **Reply #49 on:** March 10, 2009, 01:09:10 PM »

Quote from: Tommyt on March 10, 2009, 12:48:12 PM

I live one Mile From the Dock they Left out on
That Puts me 40 Miles from were they found them
that and a 1.00 will get you or me a Cup of Coffee
so now that I sound as stupid as some others that have posted
I Will say this
Those poor Guys made ONE and ONLY ONE, mistake
they went off shore thinking they would have a Good Day of fishing
they never ever thought of what was too come
But remember those who choose to be azclowns and call them fools
I hope it never knocks on your Door
They made ONE mistake the Left Port for a FUN day of fishing
everything else that happened was terrible group of mishaps
that no-one would have for seen
and no-one will ever no how it happened
I will say this I know a couple of guys who lost a boat or 2 too the Gulf
and each one will tell you POOP happens before you can say it
Don't think that the Great Experienced ones don't donate a boat every now and then
Woulda Shoulda Coulda
I believe they did not Die in vien
Their story will save many more than 3 IMHO
God bless them and Their Familys

,Let them go in Peace
Don't try to Degrade them

+1

Like I said before, I cant imagine 14 footers, what a horrible way to go.

Cheese

45-70.gov · « **Reply #50 on:** March 10, 2009, 04:18:18 PM »

Quote from: DALESCARPENTRY on March 10, 2009, 09:07:10 AM

Quote from: 45-70.gov on March 10, 2009, 06:11:05 AM
we could say ''they died doing waht they loved''
or ''what adventurers they were''

we or our kids may even want to follow in their food steps

but to be cruel and call them stupid..............MAT SAVE A LIFE NOT LOST YET

p. s. i have done much stupider than they have......like body surfing during a hurricane
Tim. Would that by chance be ( I think ) hurricane Hugo? It went right up the Florida coast and past Fernandina Beach Fl. If that was the one I was pretty stupid too. Me and my friends went surfing down on the south end of the island. The waves must have been pretty close to 20 feet. After being slamed a few times by these big waves me and my friends went looking for smaller waves on the north end of the island. The wave were always bigger on the south end. After a day of surfing and getting beat up by the waves we rented 2 motel rooms at that motel on main beach and threw a hurricane party with a keg and lot of booze. That was not smart. Good thing it did not make land fall there like they predicted. I can't remember the name of the hurricane now but I think it was Hugo. Dale

HUGO HIT WAY NORTH....carolinas i think

i did my stupidness during hurricane david a direct hit

Cabin4 · « **Reply #51 on:** March 10, 2009, 04:36:42 PM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on March 10, 2009, 11:40:18 AM

not really cabin4 , people have different views , show respect and well think different . The geo location where you are from to a degree formulates these traits .

So a discussion about a boat cap sizing in the ocean must also be influenced by the differant "traits" people have from their geographical upbringing.

I think your safe not to be on DEE's ignore list then. You can deal with him on that all you want. I'll move on to something else.

slim rem 7 · « **Reply #52 on:** March 11, 2009, 12:10:42 AM »

as dee said three men did die..
did they make mistakes ,yep one too many.. hope we don t get any ,any fed regulations about it..to dang many of them already..

myronman3 · « **Reply #53 on:** March 11, 2009, 02:56:35 AM »

because it seems like gloating over other's misfortunes.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #54 on:** March 11, 2009, 03:52:21 AM »

Pointing out people's mistakes that resulted in 3 deaths is not gloating. Of course things happen at sea to the best of them. These peoples mistakes were their complete lack of preparedness in every respect. And that is not something to sugar coat with compassion. A little bold truth can go a long way to solve problems and prevent future acts of stupidity.

I'm curious how many people here who have followed this thread will not think twice about their preparedness the next time they get in a boat!!

45-70.gov · « **Reply #55 on:** March 11, 2009, 03:59:18 AM »

if i die doing something stupid/preventable

say what ever you want about me to prevent some one from fallowing my footsteps

Glanceblamm · « **Reply #56 on:** March 11, 2009, 04:31:09 AM »

Quote from: cabin4 on March 11, 2009, 03:52:21 AM

Pointing out people's mistakes that resulted in 3 deaths is not gloating. Of course things happen at sea to the best of them. These peoples mistakes were their complete lack of preparedness in every respect. And that is not something to sugar coat with compassion. A little bold truth can go a long way to solve problems and prevent future acts of stupidity.

I'm curious how many people here who have followed this thread will not think twice about their preparedness the next time they get in a boat!!

+1

If you were to cross reference this thread to a magazine called Boating News or the like it would go into the Statistics column. Some of the readers would complain that the Statistics Column is sick & morbid and just scares the new boater away from the sport. The Editors reply though would be that this column is the most carefully read feature of the magazine because it educates the reader on what happened, what to watch for, and what not to do.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #57 on:** March 11, 2009, 05:16:21 AM »

Cabin 4 you dismiss the obivious , someone raised in the desert would have a different view than someone raised on the sea . I realize it is not PC to point out differences but they exist .
As far as being on Dee's or anyone else's ignore list , If they wish to be closed minded its ok with me . I put no one on ignore as it is better to know how and why opposition thinks as they do than those like minded . That is unless it makes one uncomfortable to converse with those of different opinion .

Cabin4 · « **Reply #58 on:** March 11, 2009, 11:28:46 AM »

I'm don’t think I’m dismissing anything obvious and I understand your point. So to be clear: It is obvious to me these guys had no idea what in the heck they were doing. The point about them growing up in the mountains, ocean area, city, farm, desert, whatever to me will always be 100% irrelevant to the point of this thread. It would only explain their lack of knowledge or experience for what they were about to get into. None of which is a valid excuse for not taking the time to learn so you are prepared or say no-thanks to the adventure invite.

If the point about me dismissing the obvious is the one about people from different parts of the country react different to tragedy, well okay I can kinda get that. But still not sure what it has to do with what these 4 did wrong. So I would still be lost on that point as it relates to this thread.

If your about to venture off into something new that you have no experience in, learn before you leap, it could cost you your life (sounds familiar). How many people would take a 1st time back pack adventure into Kodiak Island, Glazier National or the interior of Alaska for example without understanding, learning and getting yourself prepared? After researching this, understanding the preparedness requirements and the associated dangers, you may elect to opt out. Nothing wrong with that. That is the point of all this. If someone’s immediate temptation, who had no experience in these areas, was yes…to this question, that would be stupid. YES….stupid. Why, because if you don’t know what you’re doing, you can die or get eaten!

If some here are interested in finding good excuses for these guys poor preparedness and stupidity, so be it. They can keep revalidating that over and over. I could care less about the over whelming need for compassion. A little bit of truth before the boat left the dock would have been the best form of compassion if that’s what so many seem to desire (Go back to previous points)…They might be alive if they cared enough about their own lives & families. But then again, that word stupid keeps poping up….

As far as the ignore option, I also have not found a reason to use it here either. There’s good control over just pure abuse here and that would be the only reason I could think to use it. Other than that, I’m open to hearing opinions even from those I disagree with. That’s just being an adult. For some, being adult may be a challenge and the ignore option may work well for them. Not sure.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #59 on:** March 12, 2009, 01:46:02 AM »

OK , I to agree about getting into trouble doing things you are ignorant about . But people from different areas of the country have different ideas about when and how we say they are ignorant ! Some are blunt some are kinder .
If you ignore the childest you miss alot of humor !