3 lost at sea off the coast of Florida, 1 survives..

[Skunk]

I was watching some documentaries this morning about the Revolutionary War. Many folks would have said our patriots were "stupid" for thinking they could go up against England who at that time had the strongest, most powerful military in the world. In fact, many of our patriots really had no idea what they were getting themselves into. Thank goodness for their perseverance, loyalty to their cause, and indeed their stupidity.

[Cabin4]

I was watching some documentaries this morning about the Revolutionary War. Many folks would have said our patriots were "stupid" for thinking they could go up against England who at that time had the strongest, most powerful military in the world. In fact, many of our patriots really had no idea what they were getting themselves into. Thank goodness for their perseverance, loyalty to their cause, and indeed their stupidity.

Wow, you convinced me I’ve been wrong all along with that one I can really see the connection between the stupidity of these 4 boaters and patriots that went to fight against a tyrannical invading army to save their families & way of life.


What can I say......lol

[Tommyt]

 C 4
 your posts are sounding much better today than the past .I truly hate what I am about to post
These 4 Guys went off shore with all the safety equipment required by Law,unfortunately it was not enough,and due to a terrible amount of Failed attempts to keep them self's a float they lost their Life
They where in a UNSINKABLE boat that's may give some a false sense of security but none the less it was not Unturnable
My Good friend ,Brother and two Ins. guys where out 18 miles same area as these Guys a squall came up the 2 ins. guys where Good Boats man maybe 20 yrs. each while one Pulled the cowling the other Called the Coasties(tried) and  anchored and my buddy was pulling Life Jackets
(as of right now they had a Motor Glitch) it what they told me seconds the Boat Took a Bow wave and some how turned as the following wave came it was Port Stern the Boat Bowed Up the Sun and Sank (maybe 20 sec. to 50) the Boat came back up and they tied them self's
This all happened so fast no call got completed and they where SOL Luckily and that is a Big Luckily a boat was coming in
due to the Squall that had turned south and missed them came right  up on them if that didn't happen they would have sat for ? ? ? who knows there would have been no reason to look for them till maybe the Following Day
it was summer water temp 80's

[Skunk]

I was watching some documentaries this morning about the Revolutionary War. Many folks would have said our patriots were "stupid" for thinking they could go up against England who at that time had the strongest, most powerful military in the world. In fact, many of our patriots really had no idea what they were getting themselves into. Thank goodness for their perseverance, loyalty to their cause, and indeed their stupidity.

Wow, you convinced me I’ve been wrong all along with that one I can really see the connection between the stupidity of these 4 boaters and patriots that went to fight against a tyrannical invading army to save their families & way of life.


What can I say......lol

It was just an observation that really had nothing to do with boating. But I do know what I can say: You're a frustrated, smart azz, little man, who thinks he has an answer for everything. How is it Cabin that you know so much about everything there is to know? I think Mirage and Dee have you pegged to a tee.   

[Cabin4]

I was watching some documentaries this morning about the Revolutionary War. Many folks would have said our patriots were "stupid" for thinking they could go up against England who at that time had the strongest, most powerful military in the world. In fact, many of our patriots really had no idea what they were getting themselves into. Thank goodness for their perseverance, loyalty to their cause, and indeed their stupidity.

Wow, you convinced me I’ve been wrong all along with that one I can really see the connection between the stupidity of these 4 boaters and patriots that went to fight against a tyrannical invading army to save their families & way of life.


What can I say......lol

It was just an observation that really had nothing to do with boating. But I do know what I can say: You're a frustrated, smart azz, little man, who thinks he has an answer for everything. How is it Cabin that you know so much about everything there is to know? I think Mirage and Dee have you pegged to a tee.   

Skunk,

First of all, I started this thread because I wanted to discuss it. My continuation here should be expected especially if it’s responses to my posts. Some want to come in a drop a grenade once in a while. Okay, no big deal. But if you post something Skunk, is it really your expectation that it won't get a response even if the parallel you try to draw is as ludicrous as the one you did? Get real.

Yes, I have an answer for everything I get involved in. Otherwise, you should have no business getting involved in it (hint). Now, by your own admission, your comments have nothing to do with this thread. So that’s a reversal on your part but thanks for the “Post –Post" clarification. So why would you post it here? And you have the audacity to call me a smart azz! Your only looking for a rise Skunk and then when you get it, you complain about it and call others names! Advise: Make up your mind and perhaps if you stop contradicting yourself and post information that you intend to be directly related to the thread it won't happen again.

BTW: I could care less about DEE & Mirage's opinion of me. I'm sure you know how the old saying goes on that. Everybody has one of them....And when my opinion is in stark contrast to another, O well , welcome to adulthood....

I would prefer to get back to the subject if possible or it can just fade away if there’s nothing more worth adding on the subject.

[Skunk]

Skunk,

First of all, I started this thread because I wanted to discuss it. My continuation here should be expected especially if it’s responses to my posts. Some want to come in a drop a grenade once in a while. Okay, no big deal. But if you post something Skunk, is it really your expectation that it won't get a response even if the parallel you try to draw is as ludicrous as the one you did? Get real.

Yes, I have an answer for everything I get involved in. Otherwise, you should have no business getting involved in it (hint). Now, by your own admission, your comments have nothing to do with this thread. So that’s a reversal on your part but thanks for the “Post –Post" clarification. So why would you post it here? And you have the audacity to call me a smart azz! Your only looking for a rise Skunk and then when you get it, you complain about it and call others names! Advise: Make up your mind and perhaps if you stop contradicting yourself and post information that you intend to be directly related to the thread it won't happen again.

BTW: I could care less about DEE & Mirage's opinion of me. I'm sure you know how the old saying goes on that. Everybody has one of them....And when my opinion is in stark contrast to another, O well , welcome to adulthood....

I would prefer to get back to the subject if possible or it can just fade away if there’s nothing more worth adding on the subject.

Actually, Cabin4, I had no intentions of dropping a bomb in your stupid, Stupid Thread. My post was more about how pleased I was about our patriots, who in the face of being called stupid for their actions of even thinking they could match up or defeat the English War Machine, went forward and defeated the English none the less. I think you are the one who needs to get a life and also a grip for that matter. Not everything in the world evolves around you, even if someone posts something contrary to your way of thinking on your stupid, stupid thread.

Maybe the problem was that I didn't post my response as eloquently as the likes of a Rhodes Scholar like you seem to think you are. If you didn't like my post, rather than being a judgmental, condescending, snob, you could have just as well said my post didn't belong on your thread. But nooooo, you have have to come off like a big mouth know it all - much like many of your other threads. LOL.

Whatever the case, just forget it and I'll remember not to post on any of your precious little threads anymore.

[Spanky]

Cabin4,

YOU ARE AN IDIOT!!
PLAIN AND SIMPLE



Spanky

[Cabin4]

Skunk,

First of all, I started this thread because I wanted to discuss it. My continuation here should be expected especially if it’s responses to my posts. Some want to come in a drop a grenade once in a while. Okay, no big deal. But if you post something Skunk, is it really your expectation that it won't get a response even if the parallel you try to draw is as ludicrous as the one you did? Get real.

Yes, I have an answer for everything I get involved in. Otherwise, you should have no business getting involved in it (hint). Now, by your own admission, your comments have nothing to do with this thread. So that’s a reversal on your part but thanks for the “Post –Post" clarification. So why would you post it here? And you have the audacity to call me a smart azz! Your only looking for a rise Skunk and then when you get it, you complain about it and call others names! Advise: Make up your mind and perhaps if you stop contradicting yourself and post information that you intend to be directly related to the thread it won't happen again.

BTW: I could care less about DEE & Mirage's opinion of me. I'm sure you know how the old saying goes on that. Everybody has one of them....And when my opinion is in stark contrast to another, O well , welcome to adulthood....

I would prefer to get back to the subject if possible or it can just fade away if there’s nothing more worth adding on the subject.

Whatever the case, just forget it and I'll remember not to post on any of your precious little threads anymore.

Skunk,

I agree with your comments about our patriots and their actions during the revolutionary war. Maybe thats the gap I'm struggeling with here concerning this thread: The boating accident took place a couple of weeks ago and the revolutionary war was more than 200 years ago. The boating accident was a fishing trip with 4 people and the revolution was a war that killed countless thousands of people and decided the course of significant history that followed. Perhaps next time when someone tries to draw a parallel between two events so significantly far removed from each other, I'll be better prepared..... But I agree, and to be safe, follow your recommended advise concerning responding to my posts.


Back to point: Has anyone seen any updates on the boating investigation?

[Cabin4]

While you're drawing parallels...the sea is a wilderness and perhaps the most untamed wilderness of all. Just like any landlubber embarking on a wilderness adventure stuff happens. Cabin, mirage, dee, or myself could set out on 3 day backpack trip thru a range of mountains by ourself. One slip or accident and a compound fracture of a leg leaves you at the mercy of that wilderness. A broken limb 20 miles into a wilderness might just mean you aren't coming out. Or you could go snow mobiling in 40 degree weather and get in 30 miles, have a breakdown followed by a cold 3 foot snow and it might mean you might not come back.  At sea things happen fast and unexpectedly and there simply is no place to pull over and think about it as the risk is always there. Regardless of one's intelligence, tenacity, or luck things happen at sea and you might not come back.

..TM7

TM7,

So what precautions would you take in the adventure examples given? Or would you take none at all?

[Cabin4]

Cabin4,

YOU ARE AN IDIOT!!
PLAIN AND SIMPLE



Spanky

Actually, I find this very helpful as it relates to threads/posts in the future.  It's a very good indication of their inability to articulate, rationalize and have an reasonable discussion.

Sorting this out is very valuable and thanks for the advance warning Spanky.
 

[myronman3]

 i am a pretty smart guy. i am adaptable, aware, and i'm experienced.   i have done alot of things most can only dream about.  still,  i am here today by the grace of God alone.   
   kid yourselves all you want, i am willing to bet that everyone here has been close to disaster in one form or another,  because of a decision they had made.  i think some just dont want to admit it.  life(and death) happen fast. 

[Cabin4]

God gave everyone a noggin. Some choose to use it more than others. I too have spent countless hours/days in the back country. In my early years, I grew up on the south shore of Long Island and spent much of my free time on the ocean in a fishing boat. I was brought up and taught never take any of these adventures lightly and prepare yourself. God gave us a brain and he expects us to use it. If you perish because of your own stupidity, you may be fine with Gods place for you but what about your family? Read a book on preparedness and survival that is designed for the adventure your about to embark on. Get educated on the tools and technology that can save your life. I don’t see anything wrong with this. There were clearly things these guys should have done that they did not. With the new technology, being prepared is easier than ever. Could it of saved their lives?? We will never know but that is no excuse for anyone not to take advantage of these things or take proper precautions. If some want to explain this away, well they too may be the subject of a future post someday….let’s hope not.

I think this one has run its course. Continuing this is good if there is new info on what happened. I’ll look for it and post if I find something worth putting in here.

[Cheesehead]

Cabin4,

Have you ever had any close calls? Near death experiances?

Cheese

[Cabin4]

Cabin4,

Have you ever had any close calls? Near death experiances?

Cheese

Those are 2 loaded questions but the answer is yes to both. And that is why I started and stayed on this one.  But without question, the difference was I and or the people I was with were prepared to deal with it. Poop happens out there but having adequate training, understanding and equipment is critical for your survival in those circumstances that you put yourself in.

And that is the difference with the 4 in this boat. I never would have went on that boat given those circumstances and I would have tried to discourage them if I could. Anybody who says they would have went under same/similar circumstances then or in the future is irresponsible.

[pastorp]

cabin4, I don't feel this thread belongs to you, only your comments. The forum belongs to Graybeard so I guess he has ownership.

By the way, thanks for sharing your up-bringing, that explaines a lot. 



Regards

[Cabin4]

pastorp,

Go back and look at the opening thread. I opened it.

GB owns this entire website but I clearly started the thread.

I'm not claiming any website ownership here and never have or will. But I do own my words written here just like you own yours.

[pastorp]

Isn't that what I said? You own your words, nothing more. I really can't believe you want the last word in everything. Your what us Southerners call a "ONE WAY MAN"

Your worse than a old woman that argues about everything. Regards

[Skunk]

Isn't that what I said? You own your words, nothing more. I really can't believe you want the last word in everything. Your what us Southerners call a "ONE WAY MAN"

Your worse than a old woman that argues about everything. Regards

  

[Cabin4]

Isn't that what I said? You own your words, nothing more. I really can't believe you want the last word in everything. Your what us Southerners call a "ONE WAY MAN"

Your worse than a old woman that argues about everything. Regards

No, that's not what you said. You said "I don't feel this thread belongs to you". If I wrote it, I own it Pastorp and that is my point. Why else would you have added that thread to begin with then?? Makes no sense for you to simply chime in to tell me who owns what unless you disagreed with what I wrote about ownership earlier!! What exactly was the intent of your thread then? 

You can't have it both ways Pastorp. In the north they call that a hypocrite.

[Spanky]

i am a pretty smart guy. i am adaptable, aware, and i'm experienced.   i have done alot of things most can only dream about.  still,  i am here today by the grace of God alone.   
   kid yourselves all you want, i am willing to bet that everyone here has been close to disaster in one form or another,  because of a decision they had made.  i think some just dont want to admit it.  life(and death) happen fast. 

Right on the money Myron.



Spanky

[Cabin4]

http://floridaconservation.org/SAFETY/Safety_Boat_Safety_AccidentStats.htm

This is as typical as it gets with these deaths and the point here. Look it up for yourself. Page 43 under fatality data for the state of Florida boating fatality statistics for year 2007. 85% of all boating fatalities are classified as "NO BOATER EDUCATION". In other words, the deaths were do to lack of education and avoidable. This is not accident data, but the finding of why death occurred. These are avoidable deaths because they lack what it took to deal with the accident/situation they were dealt and how to live through it. No life jackets, no emergency beacon, no inflatable dingy, no Gumby suit, whatever the causes are of final death are in the mishap puts it in this stat page.

85% of the deaths are avoidable. Which means, get educated and prepared before you boat in this case.

This type of high percentage of death is seen all over these types of recreational (fishing, hunting, shooting, hiking, etc.) accidents.

Safe recreating!

[pastorp]

Cabin4, You don't own anything posted in this thread by someone other than yourself. You made the first post but that does not give you ownership to my posts to this thread or any other post by anyone other than yourself. Do you really not understand what I said? Regards

[45-70.gov]

i  don't  understand  what cabin4  did  to upset every  one

these  guys died  it  appears  doing  the same STUPID  things  we  all  have  done

they  did  not  HAVE  to die

nothing wrong with  pointing  that  out

i  am  not up  on  ''forum ethics''
but  i kinda  assume  who ever starts  a thead  owns  it
if  the thread does not  interest  me  or  not  fond   of  who  started  it
i  just  don't  comment on  it

[Cabin4]

Cabin4, You don't own anything posted in this thread by someone other than yourself. You made the first post but that does not give you ownership to my posts to this thread or any other post by anyone other than yourself. Do you really not understand what I said? Regards

Pastrop,

I completly agree with you on this. This is a much better explanation and clear to me now.

Thanks
Cabin4

[kinslayer1965]

I live in South Florida and see on a first hand basis the problems arising from people buying a boat and then having no idea how to use it properly and safely. I have fished in some rough seas in a 23' boat and even taken that 23' boat to the Bahamas on a couple occasions.

 We however have on the boat a nice little $250.00 EPIRB (emergency position indicating radio beacon) which can be turned on manually or it will come on automaticlly if the boat flips or somehow fills with water. I have not heard whether the lost fisherman had one. I rather doubt it as if they had the guard would have had a beacon that would have led them to the capsized boat. While the seas were rough they were not so rough as to cause the coast guart not to respond. The boat flipped while at anchor and the guys stapped them selves to the boat. Then for some reason three of them untied them selves and tried to swim somewhere. Not really sure of the reason but I doubt reason was in great quantity after 30 hours in the water.

If luck is when planning and preperation meet opportunity then I guess bad luck looks for opportunity among people who don't plan for the worst and just hope for the best. The ocean is not a good place for people who hope for the best. I hope a lot of young boaters took note of this tragedy and learned from it.

For those of you having some dissagreement on this thread just remember anger is never with out a reason although vey seldom is it a good one.

[Cabin4]

Now we are back on track with Kinslayers post. I’ll add a few key items to the ones he mentioned.

1. $250 for an automatically deployed radio beacon
2. $450 to $500 for an inflatable with the cover
3. $300 for a water proof hand held marine band radio
4. $50 emergency ration set with water
5. $50 4 emergency blankets
6. $30 flare gun set

Items 2 through 6 all fit into a single case. These span the safety need and allow redundancy. Swim under the boat like in this case and we have 4 survivors. 3 lives for under $1200. Seems like a good deal.

[Glanceblamm]

This is as typical as it gets with these deaths and the point here. Look it up for yourself. Page 43 under fatality data for the state of Florida boating fatality statistics for year 2007. 85% of all boating fatalities are classified as "NO BOATER EDUCATION". In other words, the deaths were do to lack of education and avoidable. This is not accident data, but the finding of why death occurred. These are avoidable deaths because they lack what it took to deal with the accident/situation they were dealt and how to live through it. No life jackets, no emergency beacon, no inflatable dingy, no Gumby suit, whatever the causes are of final death are in the mishap puts it in this stat page

Again I give you a +1

I hope a lot of young boaters took note of this tragedy and learned from it.

This is what it is all about.

For those of you having some dissagreement on this thread just remember anger is never with out a reason although vey seldom is it a good one

The Internet really does not have a face. We try to articulate or convey thoughts and slights happen that never were intended but were sure recieved as such again, because the Internet has no face. If we were all in a room, person to person,  I think that we would do much better?

[Glanceblamm]

sorry for doubling on you Cabin4....

Now we are back on track with Kinslayers post.

Carry on.

[Spanky]

How many guys on here would have survived the same situation as those men lost their lives in.
Good question huh??

Given the same gear, the same skill level, the same conditions, etc.
Well... Who would make it to shore.

That's right... None of us knows if we would have made it or not.


Cabin4...You've been running your mouth the most about these poor men... maybe next time the wind blows and the surf's up... you can go where they went, how they went and try your luck
The rest of us can stand on the shore and say how stupid you are and how it's your own fault if you don't make it back.
Good Luck with the swim old chum



Spanky

[Cabin4]

Good try Spanky but that last post of yours won't fly with me anyway. I at least have tried to offer something of value here. Value that is intended to help open people eyes to ways of preventing obviuos poor judgment and constructive criticisms of the events. You on the hand have offered and done nothing but criticize me and find excuses why people should not heed the obvious dangers, warnings and life saving tools available to them. If people listen to me, it might help them. If they listen to you, all they know is your a critic who can launch personal attacks.