Author Topic: handgun shot shells (Read 758 times)

woods · « **on:** March 09, 2009, 01:17:48 AM »

Load data is alittle scarce on this subject only place I can find data at is in a speer manual. Anyone have a more modern sorce than my 1980's manual. Was hopeing to find data on line but nobody seems to list it anywhere, although speer does have a new manual out 30 dollars is a little steap for shot shell data for 44 mag. I own half a dozen manuals (lyman, siera, accurate arms, barns, nosler), not one has data for shot shells. Speer is the only manufactorer of shot capsuls guess they have the market cornered on rat and snake shot reloading. Anyone have a new recipe for maybe clays or other modern clean burners?

woods

GameHauler · « **Reply #1 on:** March 09, 2009, 02:52:47 AM »

Do a search in this forum.
I asked the same a couple months ago

1sourdough · « **Reply #2 on:** March 10, 2009, 10:09:52 AM »

I loaded 50 for my 38/357 in 38 cases a few years ago. I cut open a few #8 shot shotgun shells & used a modest charge of H Universal powder. Of course I used the Speer shot cases. I don't have the powder charge weight I used. I think the Speer data was big on Unique powder.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #3 on:** March 10, 2009, 10:45:42 AM »

i would stick with speer . i load for 44 and 357 and use the old book you mentioned . it is a lite load compared to a bullet and can't see where it would change much over the years .
Check some of the old 1970's magazines , maybe guns and ammo , one had an article on reloading shot shells in cut down 410 shells for the 45 colt and brass cases for the 44mag and 357 mag. used longer case for vol.

Blackhawk44 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 10, 2009, 12:55:50 PM »

Having played with cutoff .410's, gas check loads and Speer capsules over many years, for the number actually needed in the field, I'd pick up a package of CCI Blazer factory loads. They work every time and, everything considered, about as cheap. If you care to trudge on with your own, remember that velocity is not that critical, often somewhat detrimental. The key to success is in using the smallest shot size available. #12 shot is superior while #9 barely passable. #8 and larger sizes are usually a waste of components, with useless patterns.

GameHauler · « **Reply #5 on:** March 10, 2009, 01:22:02 PM »

Just wondering BH44

Speer recommends #9
Why is it you think smaller is better?
Just that many more BB's I am guessing.
While we are on the topic
what would you say would be a effective
range, say on a squirrel out of a 6" 357?
Not that I would hunt intentionally with one
but if the opportunity arose while just out.
Thanks

Handgun Hunter · « **Reply #6 on:** March 10, 2009, 01:44:39 PM »

Hey Woods,

Where did you get the caplules from? The loading data is on the box they come in every time I've bought them. I don,t have a box on hand right now, but a call to Speer should get it done. As I remember, all of the loads are fast shotgun type powders. I use the Bullseye so I can use the same powder for SWC practice loads with my .44 and 357.

Tim.

Handgun Hunter · « **Reply #7 on:** March 10, 2009, 01:47:16 PM »

Yes, I flunked english. Capsules?

GameHauler · « **Reply #8 on:** March 10, 2009, 02:38:16 PM »

Again, while on the topic.
I have about 300 speer shot shell cases in 38/357
That I want to load up and have on hand or for friends.
I do not load for shotgun so I do not have shot on hand.
I can not see tearing apart perfectly good shotgun shells for it.
How much shot would I need to load the rounds?
I do not want to buy 25#.
Thanks

jhalcott · « **Reply #9 on:** March 10, 2009, 03:09:51 PM »

GHo to your local skeet/trap range and sweep up a a couple pounds off the ground. JUST be sure you are allowed to do this BEFORE going down range!

GameHauler · « **Reply #10 on:** March 10, 2009, 03:16:44 PM »

Quote from: jhalcott on March 10, 2009, 03:09:51 PM

GHo to your local skeet/trap range and sweep up a a couple pounds off the ground. JUST be sure you are allowed to do this BEFORE going down range!

$:-\$ Interesting Idea

woods · « **Reply #11 on:** March 10, 2009, 05:08:19 PM »

I used the data on the box of capsules ended up with 7 gr of bullseye. loaded 10 with #12 and 10 with #8 going to try the pattern tomarrow if weather is acceptable. I also cut cardboard wads to load in my 41 for shot shells. I placed two layers of cardboard on the bottom and 145 gr of #8 then 1 cardboard piece on top with a heavy crimp. used a split 223 case deprimed to compress the cardboard firmly against the powder charge and then did the same with the top cardboard. For cardboard I used the back flap of a stenno pad. Six loads took 18 cutouts, should be able to get about 200 out of one cardboard piece. Thanks for the info everyone. I'd really like to try clays powder for these loads it burns really clean in my 45. One last thing, squirrels have extremely tough hide, small pellets of 7, 8, or 9 shot do not penetrate well at all.

woods

Handgun Hunter · « **Reply #12 on:** March 11, 2009, 01:13:54 AM »

Use #6 for squirrels, but you better get a gille suit as you probably need to get about 10-12' from them. The shot from my 7 1/2" barreled SBH spreds 1" per foot, maybe a little more. 15" pattern at 10-12'. Thats why they call it a snake load I guess. You got to be close.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #13 on:** March 11, 2009, 07:25:21 AM »

I had good luck with #9 shot , never shot a tree rat but snakes - i use a 2 inch j frame and 8-10 feet is about max 10 is optomistic to be honest .. I had some 22 mag factory and at 6 feet not very good . plenty hits just not much damage . They contain 11 shot or 12 ( dust) shot . In the 44 i use 8 , 8.5 and 9 all work out to 10 - 12 feet on snakes and rats . We live in copperhead heaven some as large as 43-45 inches . my biggest was with the j frame at 6 feet hit it 4 inches behind the head it went to strike as i was shooting . Almost cut him in half . As far as cost reloading is a real savings as we pay $ 15.00 + a pack for the factory loads .
I also had / have some remington shot loads for the 45 ACP and they work as well as the 44 factory stuff , other than they don't cycle . Which is why i like the revolver better . ONE MORE PLUS FOR THE REVOLVER !

cwlongshot · « **Reply #14 on:** March 11, 2009, 10:13:12 AM »

I have loaded them for my long colt using Unique, two gas checks and #9 shot. Works very well.

CW

Sweetwater · « **Reply #15 on:** March 11, 2009, 12:41:03 PM »

CW, I like your style! I've used Unique and 2 gaschecks in my 45Colt and my 41Mag, BUT, contrary to what has been posted, my best luck on grouse has been with #4 shot - and out to about 15 yards. My longest shot was out of a 6" 357Mag with the Speer factory shotshell and it did amaze me.
A while back, I was playing with 30-30 cases cut back to cylinder length for the 41mag and 444 cases cut back to cylinder length for the 45Colt. Never got to any real world testing, other than to know they went bang and pop cans were jumping down range. They are a bit of a pain to build, but with nothing but time, they are fun and I believe a bit more effective than using standard case length. I used the Speer published data for shotshells in all cases. It was plenty, at least for me and the grouse. Never had to do in a snake.

Regards,
Sweetwater

woods · « **Reply #16 on:** March 11, 2009, 05:04:24 PM »

Well I tried my test on shot sizes and penitration today, I believe #8 had the best penitration and distance combined. Useing a ruger 44 alaskan 2 1/2" barrel, distance of 5', 10'and 15' two shot sizes, #12 and #8. First I checked pattern using 2' by 2' cardboard. At 5' the pattern was very dense 10" with both shot sizes. Including a large hole from the shot capsul. At 10' the diamter was close to 20" once again there was a large hole in the center lower this time from the shot capsul. At 15 feet the pattern was larger than my card board on both shot sizes but once again the capsul was lower but still there. At 15' with the #8 shot there were atleast 3 gaps over 4" mr rat would have escaped.
Now the penitration test, I figured a ordinary soda can would be a simple test. At 5' the cans were totally saturated with holes a few of the #12 did not penitrate both sides in the corners of the can. All #8 penitrated. At 10' once again can was still saturated again most all #12 penitrated but all #8 penitrated completely. At 15' about 1/4 or the 12# only penitrated one side of the can alot of dents on the exit. Funny thing is the shot capsul struck the can and fully penitrated both sides riping about a 1/2 diamiter hole. The # 8 shot hit the can and penitrated but only recieved 8 holes, 5 of the holes on one end. Just out of curioisity I shot a couple more shells at 20 feet at the card board square. The shot capsul still penitrated at 20'. shot pattern of #8 hit the card board counting holes there was 14 holes .
My conclusion is #8 is the better penitrator for 15' for rats and snakes much further than that it would be guessing unless of coarse you hit it with the plastic shot capsul. I would take a guess that a 2 gas checks would be just as deadly. Ha Ha. Next test will be with my 41. Anyone out there care to do a test with a 45 or 50? Might be interesting, in a 50 more shot larger size.

woods

v-man · « **Reply #17 on:** March 11, 2009, 05:14:45 PM »

I bought a box of Rio 12ga #12's from Cheaper than Dirt and cut them open to make my shot shells last year. I like #12's in my 38/357's but didn't want to buy 25lbs. They pack real good in the speer capsules. I also make some with no capsules by using a fast powder like HP-38 or 700x and 2 gas checks. One is cup side up on top of the powder and one cup down over the shot with a heavy crimp. Killed a few snakes with them.

Sweetwater · « **Reply #18 on:** March 11, 2009, 05:33:43 PM »

I should have posted this previously, having noted the reluctance to purchase 25lbs of shot. When I was playing with this many years ago, we also had s shotshell loader, so always had a good selection of shot available. A few months ago, I purchased from Cabelas, a plastic bottle of shot. It was marketed under the Knight label and weighed 3.5 lbs with #5shot.

It was 4 degrees here today and we just had 6 inches of new snow. Testing grounds are closed.

Regards,
Sweetwater

cwlongshot · « **Reply #19 on:** March 12, 2009, 12:08:55 AM »

Quote from: v-man on March 11, 2009, 05:14:45 PM

I bought a box of Rio 12ga #12's from Cheaper than Dirt and cut them open to make my shot shells last year. I like #12's in my 38/357's but didn't want to buy 25lbs. They pack real good in the speer capsules. I also make some with no capsules by using a fast powder like HP-38 or 700x and 2 gas checks. One is cup side up on top of the powder and one cup down over the shot with a heavy crimp. Killed a few snakes with them.

These guys used to carry bags of #12 shot too. I bought a 25# bag some time back.
I am the same situation as Sweetwater. I load shot shells so I had various sizes available. The 9's and 12's did what I wanted, saturate the ground 5-8' from my feet. Soda cans used as test subjects. If it was 15" away it was no threat or it got a 300Gr SWC.

CW