Author Topic: any particular primer for BH209  (Read 1697 times)

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Offline Myerslake2005

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any particular primer for BH209
« on: March 09, 2009, 09:03:59 AM »
I'm going to pick some BH209 up in the next couple of weeks and am wondering which 209 primer seems to work the best with it?  I saw a demo on Fiochi primers giving less pressure but I'm unable to find them locally.

Thanks

Offline grouse

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Re: any particular primer for BH209
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2009, 09:14:32 AM »
Federal 209As are the best choice in my opinion.

Offline Carroll B

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Re: any particular primer for BH209
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2009, 01:20:55 PM »
I had several hundred Fiocho and they seem to work fine.
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Offline Varmint Hunter

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Interesting read here on BH209 and 209 primers
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2009, 06:05:22 AM »
Blackhorn 209

This all new muzzleloader propellant finally hit the market this past April...and primer ignition muzzleloader shooters/hunters have taken to it as if it is the last best thing.  And, in a way it is.  It is the last "best thing" to be introduced to make muzzleloading a more consumer friendly sport.  Now, there are plenty of other write ups on the powder on this website (just go back to the opening page and scroll down to "Current & Hot Topics"), so here we'll just share that it is a cellulose-based modern powder that, with equal volumes, produces less internal barrel pressure and higher velocities than Triple Seven charges.  It burns cleaner, and many shooters have fired 20...30...40 shots - without wiping the bore, and accuracy has remained excellent.

The downside of Blackhorn 209 is that it is harder to ignite than any other black powder substitute.  In most modern No. 209 primer ignition muzzleloaders, the hotter the primer used the better.  And two of the most favored primers have been the CCI 209M and the Federal 209A.  Now, the granules of Blackhorn 209 are somewhat unique looking...for a muzzleloader powder.  They are short-cut extruded granules, with a single hole running through the center.  And there's something about the cellulose base and configuration of the granules that seem to prevent the higher pressures of "magnum" strength primers from pushing the enitre load forward before the charge ignites.

I have now shot in the neighborhood of 17-18 pounds of Blackhorn 209 - which equates to between 1,600 and 1,700 rounds.  And easily 70-percent of that shooting has been done with the hot CCI 209M and Federal 209A primers.  I cannot say, even though much of the shooting was done through this past summer, that the higher pressures created by these primers resulted in noticeable fliers.  In fact, for the most part out of most No. 209 primer ignition rifles, my best accuracy has come from those loads that were ignited by these two hotter primers - including one test target when I put 50-shots through the same 1.6" hole at 100 yards.

Another primer, which is not a "magnum" primer, that has given stellar performance with Blackhorn 209 has been the Remington STS primer.  Developed for clay target loads, this primer apparently throws a hotter flame (without excessive pressures) than other "standard strength" No. 209 primers.  At any rate, ignition of Blackhorn 209 has been instantaneous when using the STS primer.  Much of my shooting with this primer has been through a Knight DISC Extreme action rifle that has been fitted with one of the Non Full Plastic Jacket conversions.  About 300 rounds have been fired through the rifle, using the STS primer, and I have yet to experience a single hangfire.  Plus, one benefit of using this primer has been a lot less primer carbon left in the action than when shooting with the CCI 209M or Federal 209A.

So you can get a feel for where the CCI 209M and Remington STS primers fit into the "pressure" range listed in the above report, I ran them through my little .32 Green Mountain "Limited Edition" Small Game Rifle...and got the following velocities - without any powder at all! - Toby Bridges
CCI 209M.........................379 f.p.s.

Remington STS.................338 f.p.s.

Offline rt_con

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Re: any particular primer for BH209
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2009, 06:40:51 AM »
Varmint Hunter,
I tried the Rem STS primers yesterday for the first time in my .50 Disc Elite with NFPJ and BH209... got my best accuracy to date. Was amazed by the lack of primer fouling on the bolt, adapter and receiver area in general.  No need to wrap my scope.  :)  I had been using Fed 209A's and W209's.

My concern is, how will they perform with BH209 in the colder weather ?  (It looks like I missed my cold weather testing "window" here in NJ) 

Thanks... Rob
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Offline grouse

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Re: any particular primer for BH209
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2009, 07:00:43 AM »
The remington STS Pimers will fail in Knight rifles in cold temps. They also failed in the Triumph in cold temps. The only 100% reliable primer has been the Federal 209A in below zero temps. Winchester and remington probably wont be a problem in warm temps but i do not know what temps they start to fail. I have shot plenty of BH209 in very cold temps to know what is reliable and what's not. The concave FPJ plug as worked great for me. No mis-fires that i can remember at all with fed 209A primers.

There is no reason to guess in my opinion. Federal 209A and CCI 209M are available all over the place. BH209 has lived up to all the hype with lower pressures then 777 at equal velocities.  I hope they start selling it in 1lb jugs, not 10 ounce jugs.

Offline rt_con

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Re: any particular primer for BH209
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2009, 03:34:24 AM »
Thanks Grouse...  I heard of a few guys using the STS's and an report on Toby's site that he was now using these and CCI209M's exclusively in his Knights with BH209.

I don't want an ignition problem with them when hunting in cold temps... it's back to the Fed 209A's.  ;) 
Rob C

Offline Doug B.

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Re: any particular primer for BH209
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2009, 04:00:17 PM »
I picked up a box of Federal 209A's just yesterday for use with the BH 209. Hope my new breach plug for my NEF Huntsman arrives shortly. Have not shot a single round of the 209.......YET.
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Offline grouse

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Re: any particular primer for BH209
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2009, 04:45:57 PM »
I picked up a box of Federal 209A's just yesterday for use with the BH 209. Hope my new breach plug for my NEF Huntsman arrives shortly. Have not shot a single round of the 209.......YET.

You will enjoy shooting it. Keep us posted on your new plug and range results.

Offline Doug B.

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Re: any particular primer for BH209
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2009, 01:10:27 AM »
Being totally unfamiliar with the BH 209, how do you handle cleaning your firearm after a day hunting/at the range?  Do you clean it immediately after your done, or can a guy trust there won't be any problems if you don't "rush" to clean it right away? I have heard that this powder is no where near as corrosive as B.P. or its substitutes. Can we trust it given that we haven't been standing in the rain or hunting in extremely high humidity? 
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Offline grouse

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Re: any particular primer for BH209
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2009, 03:15:51 AM »
Being totally unfamiliar with the BH 209, how do you handle cleaning your firearm after a day hunting/at the range?  Do you clean it immediately after your done, or can a guy trust there won't be any problems if you don't "rush" to clean it right away? I have heard that this powder is no where near as corrosive as B.P. or its substitutes. Can we trust it given that we haven't been standing in the rain or hunting in extremely high humidity? 

On another board we bought a gun and tested that. I believe we shot it 25 times then left it untouched for 45 to 60days in a normal inside enviroment. After cleaning it really well with Hoppe's the gun showed no issues at all.

Offline tc scout

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Re: any particular primer for BH209
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2009, 05:37:19 AM »
I shot through the summer last year with BH209 and CCI 209 primers. Not a single problem with probably over 100 shots.

Opening day of gun season, 35 degrees and raining, BIG HANGFIRE.

Will be switching to Federal 209A primers this year.
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Offline 1sourdough

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Re: any particular primer for BH209
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2009, 01:42:01 AM »
 Thanks Varmint hunter & others for the reports. I shoot B209 in my Knight with CCI mag primers. I have never had a problem with ignition. I do keep things clean. When hunting last Fall I'd go a few days between cleaning. I'd do it the same day if I was in rain or a lot of snow. I did have 5 one shot kills with the 209 & 250 grn Hornaday SST combo on a friend's lease in IL last Nov. I was shooting an original Knight Disc rifle with the orange discs & the standard breech plug. A partner did fine with a Disc Extreme.
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Offline rt_con

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Re: any particular primer for BH209
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2009, 03:19:07 AM »
1sourdough.. Sounds like your original DISC handles BH209 just fine.  8) 

I picked one up in good condition, real cheap, since the stock was shortened to 13.5".   Not a biggie, since I'll be using it with heavy hunting clothes.  I'm waiting on scope bases, so I only shot it with the irons.  The results weren't good due to my old eyes.  The bore seemed loose compared to my Elite. I'll give the 250 SST a try with the short MMP's.

How is the blowback with CCI mags ? 

Thanks... Rob
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Offline toytruck

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Re: any particular primer for BH209
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2009, 07:19:02 AM »
I've been using Winchester W209's and no hangfire in my Encore so far with BH209.  There is some blowback into the breech, but that seems to be normal for my gun, even with the other primers....T7, Rem Kleanbore. Has anybody actually had a hangfire with the W209's?
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Offline rt_con

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Re: any particular primer for BH209
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2009, 09:20:58 AM »
I've been using Winchester W209's and no hangfire in my Encore so far with BH209.  There is some blowback into the breech, but that seems to be normal for my gun, even with the other primers....T7, Rem Kleanbore. Has anybody actually had a hangfire with the W209's?

toytruck... I had 2 hangfires and my buddy had a few using W209's in our T/C Omega's at the range last Dec.  However, that was before we knew to "drill" out our B/P's with 1/8" bits; so I can't really blame the primer.  And... my buddy's B/P  had the crusty fouling that clogged the flame channel before shooting BH209.  Guess 777 didn't need that much flame to ignite.

We have been using Fed 209a's since then..just to be sure.   
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Offline Doug B.

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Re: any particular primer for BH209
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2009, 12:20:33 PM »
I've been using Winchester W209's and no hangfire in my Encore so far with BH209.  There is some blowback into the breech, but that seems to be normal for my gun, even with the other primers....T7, Rem Kleanbore. Has anybody actually had a hangfire with the W209's?

toytruck... I had 2 hangfires and my buddy had a few using W209's in our T/C Omega's at the range last Dec.  However, that was before we knew to "drill" out our B/P's with 1/8" bits; so I can't really blame the primer.  And... my buddy's B/P  had the crusty fouling that clogged the flame channel before shooting BH209.  Guess 777 didn't need that much flame to ignite.

We have been using Fed 209a's since then..just to be sure.  

When you drilled out your plugs with a 1/8" bit, how much metal were you actually removing? Is the 1/8" hole actually considered a "norm" given the BH209 and Fed 209a's combination in a T/C Omega?
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Offline rt_con

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Re: any particular primer for BH209
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2009, 12:38:10 PM »
I've been using Winchester W209's and no hangfire in my Encore so far with BH209.  There is some blowback into the breech, but that seems to be normal for my gun, even with the other primers....T7, Rem Kleanbore. Has anybody actually had a hangfire with the W209's?

toytruck... I had 2 hangfires and my buddy had a few using W209's in our T/C Omega's at the range last Dec.  However, that was before we knew to "drill" out our B/P's with 1/8" bits; so I can't really blame the primer.  And... my buddy's B/P  had the crusty fouling that clogged the flame channel before shooting BH209.  Guess 777 didn't need that much flame to ignite.

We have been using Fed 209a's since then..just to be sure.  

When you drilled out your plugs with a 1/8" bit, how much metal were you actually removing? Is the 1/8" hole actually considered a "norm" given the BH209 and Fed 209a's combination in a T/C Omega?


That was a poor choice of words on my part, I don't use a power "drill" at all.

Do not remove any metal... the flame channel on the Omega B/P is already 1/8" or should be.   (I'm talking about the hole just forward of the primer pocket).  I believe same for the Encore... and my Knight Disc FPJ plug is also 1/8".  I just turn the 1/8" drill bit with my hand... or put the bit in a tap handle (t-handle) and turn until you hit the bottom of the channel.

I couldn't believe the encrusted fouling the first time I did it; and it looks deceiving as the crust doesn't appear to be fouling at all.... it looks like the walls of the inside of the B/P.... i.e. same color, and very hard.
Rob C

Offline rebAL

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Re: any particular primer for BH209
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2009, 08:41:28 AM »
In anticipation of hunting in cold weather I went out to find fed 209A or CCI 209M to replace my Rem STS.  All I could find was standard CCI Shotshell primers.  What is the difference?  Which should I choose Rem  STS or CCI Shotshell?  Thanks 

Offline 1sourdough

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Re: any particular primer for BH209
« Reply #19 on: December 13, 2009, 12:50:26 AM »
 Rebal, I use the CCIM's, maybe hard to find in your area. I'd get 100 STS to hold you over then get 1K CCIM primers when you find them.
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