winchester 1886 40-82

[invisabill1958]

I got this about 2 weeks ago shot for first time the other day the gun is in very good shape .first shot almost sat me down it kicks like a mule took two more shots then had to put on sled at fifty yards shot five more shots all in 2 inch group 1.5 high little left not bad for not being shot in 45 years. i will not shoot without bootlit again.I got a killer deal on this gun and I love it I just wish ammo did not cost what it dose have to learn now to load my own here are some pic of gun tell me what you thinkhttp://s654.photobucket.com/albums/uu264/invisabill1958/winchester%201886/

[Mikey]

I think you got a great deal.  You do not find many 86s in 40-82.  Many were rebarrelled to more modern calibers when smokelss powder became to vogue. 

The 40-82 took a 260 gn slug at between 1400-1500'/sec.  The 200 yd mid range trajectory was 11" but even so, the cartridge gained a great reputation as a killer against Elk and heavy animals.  I would keep that rifle shootin'.  JMTCW.  Mikey.

[invisabill1958]

I cant wait to go hunting with it I just hope it is not to much for white tail. the shells that I shot were ten-x 260 grain.next year I am going to a friends house in montana he moved there last year .he lives on milk river going to take me hunting out there that should be fun I will bring the 86 with me  thank you,Bill

[Oldtimer]

A friend had one years ago.  He had me find enough materials to shoot it and to reload for it.  I found a Lyman nutcracker tool with bullet mold.  I had to buy some .45 basic cases and shorten them to have brass to reload.  I used 55 grains of 4831 and a standard rifle primer with the lead bullets.  I shot some of the rejects late one evening just to test function and the load was both accurate and comfortable to shoot.  It sounds like you have some hot-loaded ammo.  Reloading yourself, using a milder smokeless load, or black powder, will be a lot more fun.  Keep the rifle the way it is, and use lead bullets, since the barrel was probably not made for smokeless. You will not miss a thing using lead on whitetails.

[invisabill1958]

I thank you for that.I do not know the first thing about reloading have only done muzzel loader thats pretty easy. I have to get some books and read up on it before I would even try .do not want it blowing up in my face or killing someone I have alot to learn first the barrel dose not say anything about smokless I called midway told them what I had  they told me that ten-x 260 is what to use

[Oldtimer]

With black powder this is really simple.  The official name of the cartridge is the loading formula.  With modern cases you will not be able to get 82 grains of powder into the case.  Fill the case with black powder to about 1/4 inch of the case mouth and seat a bullet  Us the same lube on the bullet that you would in your muzzleloaders.  A standard primer is all you need,  In fact a large pistol primer would do the job.  You might want to experiment to see which one gives you the best accuracy.  Clean both rifle and cases as you normally would for black Deprime the cases before cleaning.  If you intend to load with smokeless powder, keep the cases that you used with black powder separate.  If you can find one of the old  Lyman nutcracker reloading tools, a number five, I think, not only will it be a great accessory, but it can do all the steps you need to reload this case.

[invisabill1958]

thank you for that oldtimer.  I still want to do some reading before I try anything .Don,t get me wrong I will take all advice I can .but I want to be safe. do not like to take short cuts I do not want to hurt this gun it has been around along time and and want it to be around for my grand kids someday.I am one of those people that has to read up on things like this before I do it .I do keep notes of what people tell me I guess that is just the comm, fishermen in side of me on my boat I have to write everything down thank you  BILL

[Mikey]

The only load data I have ever seen for the 40-82 with a 260 gn bullet is 28 grains of 4198 for a muzzle velocity of 1425'/sec.  A factory loading with the same bullet is rated at 1490'/sec. 

Be very careful with that old rifle.....

[invisabill1958]

I plan on being carefull that is why I will not try anything before I know what I am doingI had it checked out by gunsmith before I shot it he gave me ok to shoot  after he tried to get me to sell it to him .thanks guys  BILL

[Sweetwater]

Yours looks like in real fine condition. I just looked at your photo album. Have you checked for year of manufacture? Sounds like that TEN-X load might be the Express Load of the Smokeless Era. My '86 is a blackpowder rifle Circa 1887, and I definitely cannot use the express load that became available with the advent of smokeless powder. That express load ran a 260 jacketed bullet in the area of 1800fps and did have some recoil, but then again, the rifle weighs a bunch. My 40-82WCF is a "kitchen carbine". Sometime before I acquired it, someone hacked off the barrel at the 20" mark, not exactly straight, shortened the magazine tube to fit the barrel, cut the butt stock and fitted a shotgun buttpad. The action is tight and I can keep all hits on a 12" TV screen at 125 yards! LOL! At the open range where I used to shoot in Ramona, Ca, there was this TV set up on a huge rock across this drainage that we shot across. My buddy ranged it at 125 yards. I got some 270gr loads from Bob Shell in Arizona. That gave me my brass. Dies came from Redding. I shoot bullets cast for my 41Mag with great pleasure. 34gr of H4895Ext with a wad and a 260gr cast bullet gave me 1430fps @ 15ft from the muzzle ES=16 SD=8     35gr cranked it up to 1500fps  ES=27   SD=19    very close to original velocities and a fairly mild charge. A few years ago, Dave Scovill (Rifle Magazine) published a piece on the 40-82WCF. He stated blackpowder effects could be made with smokeless powder by filling the case with any slow powder, seating a bullet compressing the powder, and using a magnum rifle primer. I tried this and it surely filled the air with gray smoke! The chronograph read 1760fps average velocity  ES=54 SD=19. I used 57gr IMR4350, 260grRNFP w/Wad, CCI 250 magnum primer. It shot fine. Without the wad, velocity went down to 1700fps   ES=28   SD=11    Based on the velocity, I concluded the pressure was probably above the blackpowder level and chose not to repeat. A 225grLFNGC with 35gr H4895Ext tripped the screens at 1500fps. ES=57  SD=21   It was a real joy to shoot!!  I passed on a large Mulie Buck here in North Idaho 2 years ago. It was on a ledge high above me and all I could see with my field glasses was antlers, head, and neck, staring at me. It didn't stay long and my scoped rifle would have put it in the freezer, but I felt right in not taking the shot. I didn't feel I could reliably place the shot where it needed to go under those conditions. I needed more practice, practice...

Regards,
Sweetwater

[geobru]

Bill,
You have a very nice gun there.  The 1886 40-82 is not the simplest caliber to reload for because the bores tend to range from .406 (supposedly the standard) to .410.  Mine is an 1887 model that has been in my family since 1929, but wasn't shot until September  2007, when I bought 3 boxes of ammo from Gad Custom Cartridges for around $35 per box.  My bore is .409, so I load it with .410 diameter bullets.  I have to ream the neck of the brass so the loaded cartridge will fit into the chamber.  Sounds like your bore might be closer to the .406 diameter, but you should probably slug the barrel to get the actual diameter.

Like you, I had never reloaded, but once I saw that there was hope, I geared up and am now reloading the old girl and really enjoy shooting her.  I would be a bit concerned about the amount of recoil that you describe.  I shoot 25 grains of 5744 topped off with corn meal filler, with 270 grain FNGC cast bullets.  That load chronies at 1495 fps, which is right there with the factory specs, and it has a very mild recoil.  Most likely the barrel on your gun is NOT a nickel steel barrel, so be very careful with "hot" loads. 

You can buy 45-90 brass at Buffalo Arms for about $85 per 100.  The 45-90 is the parent cartridge for the 40-82.  I form my 40-82 brass from the 45-90 cases with the regular 40-82 full length sizing die.  I then use a trim die to get the 2.4 inch length I need.  I have gotten 12 reloads from some of the brass and they are still going strong.

Before I started shooting and loading for this gun, I searched online for two years for articles and reloading information about the 40-82.  I have several published articles written by the likes of Mike Venturino, (Handloader 84 and 96), Ken Waters, (Loading the Old Ones), Dave Scoville (Rifle Magazine), and Larry O'Connel (Rifle Magazine). 

I gleaned the load data from those articles and from information gathered from contributors from other forums and compiled them into an Excel spreadsheet.  If you would like scans of these let me know and I will send you what I have. 

This is not a gun that you want to push maximum loads through.  The Scoville loads published in Rifle Magazine were from Clyde "Snooky" Williamson's work.  His loads might be ok for a 40-82 with a modern barrel, but are too hot for a barrel designed for black powder pressures.  They are too valuable to do that, but they are a lot of fun to shoot. 

One other thing to know about the 1886 40-82 is that it was an express cartridge.  What this means is that it was designed to shoot lighter bullets with a heavier powder charge to get a higher velocity.  The rate of twist is 1:28 in the 40-82.  This limits the bullet weight that will stabilize in that barrel.  The 40-65, 40-70, and 45-70 had a higher rate of twist, so they can stabilize the longer, heavier bullets.  You will have to learn about the Greenhill Formula that predicts the maximum length of a bullet that will stabilize with a given rate of twist.

Good luck with the learning process, and enjoy this gun!!   What year was the gun made??