Author Topic: Roughly 1/2 scale Parrot Field Rifle (Read 1926 times)

NitroSteel · « **on:** March 12, 2009, 09:50:57 AM »

I took my 30 mm rifled barrel to the shop last week to get the necessary work done to start the project, picked it up yesterday. It is now 35" long from the muzzle to the back of the "ball" on the breech end. I am planning on building it with approximately 25" wheels, trying to keep it in perfect scale with the plans that DoubleD sent me (all of the measurements multiplied by 1.8 ).

The barrel is basically finished, except for the final sanding and blueing. I'm dying to fire something out of it and am wondering what you would recommend as far as projectiles go. I've determined that a 5 ounce cannonball sinker is nearly the perfect diameter, may be snug even without a small patch. I've thought of using short crimped pieces of 1-1/8 copper tubing or conduit filled with lead and/or concrete.

I figured as much insight as ya'll always have, you have some ideas on what to use. Please let me know any ideas.

In the end I'm sure that I'll end up getting a mold made. I already have a really big "block" of aluminum for the purpose. I thought it would be a shame not to shoot "bullets" out of a rifled barrel. The barrel is sleeved with a piece of 3" round stock and it is "sweated" on (the barrell is approximately 5 thousands larger than the hole in the round stock). There is no breech plug , and the is a minimum of 2 inches on the rear of the barrell and approximately 1" wall thickness around the breech area. When using a "heavy" lead ball or bullet, should I be concerned about pressure (assuming I use no more than the recommended powder load of 2 ounces for each inch of bore diameter)? Should I weld the sleeve on? The person at the machine shop didn't think welding the rear on was necessary, but he quickly said he was not an expert on cannons...

Any ideas or drawings of a mold that you have would be very helpful. Any ideas on what I can shoot NOW?

Thank you again for your help.

NitroSteel

Double D · « **Reply #1 on:** March 12, 2009, 11:02:51 AM »

Do you know the major and minor bore dimensions? What are the diameters of the lands and grooves.

KABAR2 · « **Reply #2 on:** March 12, 2009, 11:08:32 AM »

Sounds like your off to a nice start

But Photo's of your newly minted barrel for all to see are in order............ how else can anyone drool?

and M'Laday want's to see too!

GGaskill · « **Reply #3 on:** March 12, 2009, 11:35:19 AM »

Does your barrel look something like the one in the foreground?

NitroSteel · « **Reply #4 on:** March 12, 2009, 12:16:52 PM »

Here's what I've got right now. I don't know about the lands and groves (not sure how to measure that), but I'll post a photo of a cross section of barrel very soon, that may help.

Projectiles anyone?

Thanks again.

NitroSteel

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #5 on:** March 12, 2009, 12:26:12 PM »

Quote from: NitroSteel on March 12, 2009, 09:50:57 AM

...
I'm dying to fire something out of it and am wondering what you would recommend as far as projectiles go.
...

My neighbor (long gone now) was THE engineer that setup the production line for loading the 30mm ammo at the arsenal nearby in Radford. He said, "I can get you stuff that will get BOTH of us arrested."

I'm interested in hearing what Tracy and Mike have to say --

NitroSteel · « **Reply #6 on:** March 12, 2009, 12:30:31 PM »

I'd rather just stick to something "cast", as opposed to sharing a cell and shower with someone....

Who are Tracey and Mike (neighbors)?

Thank you.

NitroSteel

NitroSteel · « **Reply #7 on:** March 12, 2009, 12:47:20 PM »

Here's the rifling

NitroSteel · « **Reply #8 on:** March 12, 2009, 12:55:11 PM »

A little different view. What can I measure and give to you for dimensions?

Thank you,

NitroSteel

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #9 on:** March 12, 2009, 01:07:34 PM »

Nitrosteel, If it were us with that 30mm tube with 22 lands and grooves, we would measure the groove dia. at the largest dia. and double check the bore dia. also to make sure it is 30mm or show it to someone local who can measure it and build a minie ball mold for you. That is the simplest way to get it done. You can cast zinc into an extra section of the tube with an inserted nose piece after it has been heavily chrome plated or machine bolts from 12L14 steel like we do. There are many ways to skin this cat. Sorry Tim.
Good luck with it; looks there is some real potential there.

Regards,

Mike and Tracy

GGaskill · « **Reply #10 on:** March 12, 2009, 02:03:15 PM »

Above is a picture of a large Lyman-style mould made expressly for my 30 mm Parrott-style cannon. It has a base plug for forming hollow base slug in the style of a Minie ball.

Now without making something as complicated as that, you might be able to make projectiles from copper pipe of the right size by tinning the inside with solder and casting a lead plug into the front. Leave some open space at the rear and maybe it would expand and grip the rifling.

I'm going to have to try that idea.

NitroSteel · « **Reply #11 on:** March 12, 2009, 02:11:53 PM »

GGaskill,

I've seen a picture of your 30mm mold before. Do you have a diagram of actual bullet from front, back and side that you could post? If yours works well, I could basically copy the overall shape of it, and just make sure that the dimensions of it are made specifically for my barrell.

How tight does your bullet fit?

Thank you,

NitroSteel

GGaskill · « **Reply #12 on:** March 12, 2009, 02:18:28 PM »

Mine actually fits too tight and, since my breech is screwed on, I usually load as a breech loader. I can measure things tonight if I remember.

Victor3 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 12, 2009, 11:27:39 PM »

Don't know if you've seen this one I'm making for my rifled 12 ga cannon, but it's a fairly simple mould to make...

No specially ground tools were required to machine the cavity or base plug.

Mine will have standard mould handles on it, but you don't need them if you want to keep it simple (and cheaper to have made).

KABAR2 · « **Reply #14 on:** March 12, 2009, 11:52:54 PM »

I'm just wondering since he has sections of rifled barrel, what about casting a slug and swedging
it through the barrel section to pre-engrave the rifling? if the rammer had a head that could rotate
it could slide the pre-engraved slug down the bore, the only thing would be it would have to be well
cleaned between each shot, this would be a tack driver it this could be done.

Allen <><

NitroSteel · « **Reply #15 on:** March 13, 2009, 02:10:58 AM »

Kabar,

I do have several sections of barrell and was thinking of doing something along those lines, but just don't know where to even start. How could I do this?

GGaskill,

How much powder do you put behind your bullet? How much does your bullet end up weighing? Do you use lead or something else (where do you get the something else)?

By the way, I loaded it up yesterday evening with about 1.5 ounces of powder and shot a ball of aluminum foil out. It was LOUD, as loud as my golf ball cannon, I would assume it will get louder as the bullet gets heavier...

NitroSteel

Victor3 · « **Reply #16 on:** March 14, 2009, 02:00:35 AM »

Quote from: NitroSteel on March 13, 2009, 02:10:58 AM

Kabar,

I do have several sections of barrell and was thinking of doing something along those lines, but just don't know where to even start. How could I do this?

NitroSteel,

Have a look at seacoastartillery's post...

"You can cast zinc into an extra section of the tube with an inserted nose piece after it has been heavily chrome plated..."

What they're talking about here is using a chunk of your barrel for the mould, after plating the inside in order to reduce its diameter slightly. This will allow you to cast a slug with the rifling grooves on it that will slip down the bore of your cannon for easy loading. It should be an accurate slug, and there will be no need for a cavity in the base since the rifling is already there, and will fit your bore like a glove.

By the way, my good friend

, you say you have "several sections" of this barrel? How long might they be?

NitroSteel · « **Reply #17 on:** March 14, 2009, 06:38:35 AM »

Victor3, do you have an example that you can post of a nose piece that I could easily make? Also, does anyone have a crash course on chrome plating (who do you normally get to do this type of work?

Victor3. I have 3 different other sections that are each in the neighborhood of 3-4 feet in length. Probably don't have much use for them, but was hanging on to them for a rainy day...

If you are interested in one, send me a pm with your email address.

Thank you,

Nitrosteel

Victor3 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 14, 2009, 01:37:13 PM »

NitroSteel,

I don't have anything handy, but I'll draw a picture of the nose piece later today (unless someone else does first). It will basically be a round bar with a concave pocket the shape of your bullet nose in the end of it.

You can have your bbl section chromed at most any commercial plating shop, or maybe even a place that does auto parts (bumpers/trim, etc.).

GGaskill · « **Reply #19 on:** March 14, 2009, 03:24:51 PM »

If you have a radius tool for a lathe, you can use that to make a nose die. Otherwise, a 1" ball nose end mill should be close enough. If you are casting lead, the cavity can be made in aluminum.

Victor3 · « **Reply #20 on:** March 15, 2009, 12:29:00 AM »

NS,

Here's what it might could look like...

I don't have any experience with this type of mould. Maybe others here do?

One thing I'd be worried about is the slug sticking in the mould, especially considering the deep, fine grooves of your rifling. Might work best (if at all) using a fairly short length of rifling on a band near the back end of the slug.

Also, as KABAR2 mentioned, the bore will have to be cleaned well for each shot, lest the slug gets stuck 1/2 way down $:-\$

NitroSteel · « **Reply #21 on:** March 15, 2009, 07:24:27 AM »

Two quick questions:

1) where would I find zinc? does it foul as bad as lead?

2) If the barrel become very fouled with lead (from shooting a rifled lead projectile), how can it be cleaned? Could the barrel just be heated and let the lead drip out the muzzle? I know how to clean a rifle - - when you can see through the barrel, but with my cannon there is no way to push a rod all the way through...

Thank you again for your help.

NitroSteel

DoktorD · « **Reply #22 on:** March 15, 2009, 09:02:28 AM »

Well as far as the zinc goes,

I know one good place to find just about any odd ball thing.. Sometime cheap too...

Ebay

Heres where I plam on getting MY zinc...

Double D · « **Reply #23 on:** March 15, 2009, 10:17:20 AM »

Quote from: DoktorD on March 15, 2009, 09:02:28 AM

Well as far as the zinc goes,

I know one good place to find just about any odd ball thing.. Sometime cheap too...

Ebay

Heres where I plam on getting MY zinc...

Ouch!!! That's some pretty spendy Zinc!!!! Scrap metal price is only $.55 a pound. Check the scrap yards first.

If you know someone casting bullets and collecting wheelweights let them know and have them save the zinc wheel weights for you. You don't need a lot of them as you are going to recover them after shooting.

DoktorD · « **Reply #24 on:** March 15, 2009, 10:23:37 AM »

WOW...

Thanks Double D, didn't know that! (Good thing I do now

)

Double D · « **Reply #25 on:** March 15, 2009, 10:27:31 AM »

Do a search of this forum for zinc and zinc anodes. You will find some discussion on zinc ans the sources for it.

NitroSteel · « **Reply #26 on:** March 15, 2009, 10:51:13 AM »

I read that pennies made after 1982 are 97.5 percent zinc, with a copper plating. Depending on the exchange rate, it may be just as cheap and simple to use pennies as anything else.... I've got a huge jar of them already...

NitroSteel

Double D · « **Reply #27 on:** March 15, 2009, 11:16:16 AM »

Yes, true about pennies. But the metal caster warn about using pennies the copper plating is so thin, that you have to really have close control over temperature or you get copper contamination. I'm not sure why that contamination is bad, perhaps raising melting temp.

You can exchange pennies for nickles and dimes and buy zinc scrap...I think that would be better than melting pennies.

GGaskill · « **Reply #28 on:** March 15, 2009, 08:40:29 PM »

Melting Point of Copper = 1,083° Celsius (1,981° Farenheit)
Melting Point of Zinc = 419.6° Celsius (787° Farenheit)

These aren't very close together so I don't see much likelihood of the copper contaminating the zinc. In fact, Zamac actually has a little copper in it intentionally so it can't be too bad. The best place to look for new zinc is a diecasting supplier. The last batch I bought cost about $1 a pound.

The problem with using pennies is the copper coating stays intact even if the zinc has melted. If you really want to use pennies, you should cut them in half before melting the zinc. And be careful to not overheat the zinc. Check out metal fume fever before you experience it. Whole milk is the folk antidote (I don't know if this works myself.)

Victor3 · « **Reply #29 on:** March 15, 2009, 10:19:15 PM »

Just curious - What would be the advantages of using zinc over lead in smaller guns? I can see it for something as big as a golf ball where lead is ~1#, but for a 30mm where a ball would only be ~5.6 oz?

After all, his bbl was probably originally designed to shoot DU bullets

I suppose if you wanted higher velocity and less recoil/pressure zinc would be good, but are there other reasons?