Author Topic: is the 38spl good enough?? (Read 4914 times)

oldfart · « **on:** March 12, 2009, 01:57:21 PM »

i just recently bought a new charter arms police undercover, the gun shoots great and is very accurate for a snubby. however i've got some friends who are turning their noses up at the little gun, saying i need at least a 357 or better yet a 44. now i beleive the 38 is more than enough to stop what i need it for, ( i'll be carrying on the farm in case of 4 legged attacks, coyoties are getting really bad around here, and i'll use it for my house gun for the 2 legged varmits). i seem to recall these are the same friends that got me in to archery in the late 80's, i started shooting at 60lb pull by the time they got thru hounding me i was trying to shoot 90lb bows and ended up hurting my arm. so i wanted to check to see what everyone here thinks, is the 38 with modern loads ( the gun is rated for +p and hornady makes some ammo that has 1100fps and 425flbs of energy) but do i need that hot stuff? i know to practice with low powered stuff, and just use the hotter stuff for defense. but will the other loads out there be enough? i would just like to know what other shooters think. thank you all for any advice.

kitchawan kid · « **Reply #1 on:** March 12, 2009, 02:06:04 PM »

A.22 in the pocket is better than a S&W 500 in the safe at home.Many undercover cops carried them for years.I have carried one for a few years and didn't feel under guned.

S.S. · « **Reply #2 on:** March 12, 2009, 02:45:42 PM »

with proper choice of ammo, A 38 spl. is fine.
The 158 grain SWC HP in standard velocity
is the best choice in many circles for a snubbie.
I agree with their thinking and that is what I carry.
My snubbie goes everywhere I go. I stay away from the expensive
"Specialty" rounds as they are just too expensive to
practice with. I always, without exception practice with
what I carry. Otherwise the purpose is defeated of practice.

Brett · « **Reply #3 on:** March 12, 2009, 11:59:30 PM »

Absolutely. And don't forget to practice, practice, practice. Remember one or two well placed hits from a .38 beats 10 near misses from a .45.

williamlayton · « **Reply #4 on:** March 13, 2009, 12:28:16 AM »

SURE!
Blessings

PS I like a .45. My newest carry weapon will be a .38super, I have a 9x23, and a .357sig. What do they have in common? Well basically the are all .38's.

Mikey · « **Reply #5 on:** March 13, 2009, 01:44:10 AM »

oldfart: your buddies are full of old farts with lumps in them. You certainly do not need a 357 for personal defense and you sure as all hay don't need on in a snub nosed revolver configuration.

As S.S. said: with proper choice of ammo, A 38 spl. is fine. The 158 grain SWC HP in standard velocity
is the best choice in many circles for a snubbie. He is absolutely correct.

Now, if you reload, there is only one better load, imo, for the 38 snubbie and it is a older police load in 200 gn; it is not a +P at all and I do not recommend +P loads for the 38 snubbie.

Everybody who responded is correct. You can purchase plain jane 38 158 gn semi wadcutters in any sporting goods store that sells ammo. It is a common load and it works. As Brett said - practice, practice and practice some more and you will be fine. JMTCW.

Mohawk · « **Reply #6 on:** March 13, 2009, 05:40:16 AM »

Yes it is......

rockbilly · « **Reply #7 on:** March 13, 2009, 07:21:07 AM »

I agree that a .38 is adequate for most personal defense situations. I am not condemning you for buying one but I think I would have gone with the .357 to have the option of shooting either.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #8 on:** March 13, 2009, 07:42:54 AM »

My only concern with the 38's is out of the 2" or shorter barrels.
I shoot steel targets and when I win with the auto in our club shoot I then show up with a revolver. That way I can get better with my revolver as well as let other people win the event. What everyone wants to see thier name on top in the news letter.
I have shot my 2" det Spl and am not able to move swingers that my 4" or 6" revolvers will.
There is some short barrel ammo made that increases velocity as well as a bullet designed for those velocities.
Just my $.02

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #9 on:** March 13, 2009, 09:35:03 AM »

well i believe so . the only large critter is to finish off deer . the 38 158 lswhp to the back of head does not exit . the 125 jhp out of the 357 mag. does . At 15 yards with the 38 j frame 2 inch bbl .i can hold a 3-5 inck group , smaller some days single action da 5-6 on a good day . with the 357 da j frame 2 inch bbl. lucky to put all 5 in a 9 inch pie plate after a few cyl full . the 30 weighs 13 oz empty and the 357 12 oz empty .
Now up close i would choose the 357 . It is powerful out of a 2 bbl. and loud and alot of flash . all would terrify anyone on the recieving end A GOOD THING ! IMHO .
The 38 works also and some will like less of the power , noise and flash .

bilmac · « **Reply #10 on:** March 13, 2009, 01:08:36 PM »

With the money you would spend on another gun, buy bullets for practice with your 38 and you'll probably be better off.

Old Griz · « **Reply #11 on:** March 15, 2009, 08:12:25 AM »

I agree with everyone else, the .38 will do just fine. However, as also mentioned, velocity from a 2" barrel is not that great. A bullet that mushrooms before it gets adequate penetration will not serve you well. You need to reach vital organs to be effective. So in any pocket pistol, be it a .38, 9x18 (Mak), or .380, etc., go with a SWC, or even FMJ. Deep holes come first, expansion comes second.

Mohawk · « **Reply #12 on:** March 15, 2009, 10:10:27 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on March 13, 2009, 09:35:03 AM

well i believe so . the only large critter is to finish off deer . the 38 158 lswhp to the back of head does not exit . the 125 jhp out of the 357 mag. does . At 15 yards with the 38 j frame 2 inch bbl .i can hold a 3-5 inck group , smaller some days single action da 5-6 on a good day . with the 357 da j frame 2 inch bbl. lucky to put all 5 in a 9 inch pie plate after a few cyl full . the 30 weighs 13 oz empty and the 357 12 oz empty .
Now up close i would choose the 357 . It is powerful out of a 2 bbl. and loud and alot of flash . all would terrify anyone on the recieving end A GOOD THING ! IMHO .
The 38 works also and some will like less of the power , noise and flash .

Don't feel bad, SHOOTALL. I finished a wounded deer off one afternoon with a shot to the ears and one to the chest with .38 Spl, 110 FMJ flat points, and neither bullets exited. Gun was a 4" S&W Model 10. First shot to the lungs and it basically shut him down, but the head shot was the finisher. Reason for the chest shot was his head was continually violently moving and I could not get a shot off. Once he was hit in the lungs, it slowed his head down long enough to put one under his ear.

Robert357 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 15, 2009, 02:43:32 PM »

Quote from: oldfart on March 12, 2009, 01:57:21 PM

is the 38 with modern loads ( ... +p ...) ...enough?

YES

I tend to like heavy bullets, but that is my bias. I have handloaded 180 grain and 200 grain 38special loads. The Brits use to have a 200 grain 38 cabliber load that was quite effective.

A nice 158 grain or heavier bullet loaded 38 Special or 38 Special +P is a respectible load.

While I own an Astra Snub nose 44 Rem Magnum and carry it in the deep woods, I just recently required a Taurus Ultra Light 38 Special for carrying in more "civilized" situation.

Don't let your friends make you feel that the 38 Special is unacceptable.

44 Man · « **Reply #14 on:** March 21, 2009, 04:02:58 PM »

I really love a 1911 .45 on my hip. But in reality I most often leave the house with my light weight .38 snub S&W in an IWB holster. It's light, easy to conceal and you forget about it all day long. Not something that the .45 does. That one just get's heavier and heavier as the day goes by. I had one of those little Charters for years and years. And yes, it was more accurate than it had any right to be. I carried it with hard cast SWC over a top load of Unique and that was the only load I ever used in it. Shot the snot out of that gun and she never complained. Enjoy that gun and ignore those guys. Ask them what they carry and 'if' they carry every day. When you want to shut them up just sit down at the bench and ring a 12" gong at 100 yds. That'll silence them everytime and it's easier to do than you might think. 44 Man

Mikey · « **Reply #15 on:** March 22, 2009, 01:41:56 AM »

44 Man - yep! Ringin' the gong at 100 yds usually shuts them right up. The funny part of this is that the 200 grainers travel slow enough to be seen moving down range over a light sandy range floor or if there is snow on the ground - but it helps you walk them right into the gong...... Another funny thing is that the heavy slugs move slow enough so that some of the others on the range, those who have no problem bustin' your chops while you're shooting, will often yell out that 'you blew the shot' just before the slug hits the gong. 'Ha! You blew it'. 'Splang'! Hmmmmm.......

Swampman · « **Reply #16 on:** March 22, 2009, 02:33:46 AM »

I prefer the .38 Special, I have 2 of them & a rifle.

Bigeasy · « **Reply #17 on:** March 22, 2009, 03:04:07 AM »

38 Special? Do they still load it? These days the 44 Mag will work, but only with a 300 grain bullet, and a long barrel, the 45 ACP can do provided you double tap, the .357 SIG is the minimum you will need to make something lay down after you shoot it. The .40 Short & Weak just wounds, the .9mm Luger causes welts, and the .38 SPL wont penetrate a heavy cotton shirt, let alone that thick winter Coyote fur.

Here is a secret - The 38 spl loaded with a 158 grain lead hollow point has some kind of magical propereties that supercede the above. Just tell your buddies you are using a 500 Mag. They will not know the difference as they are most likely blind, deaf, and sore of hand from shooting "real" mens guns...

Larry

jlwilliams · « **Reply #18 on:** March 22, 2009, 03:35:28 AM »

Sounds like your friends who say .357 mag is the minimum have been listening to too many 'experts'.

The special gets a little disrespected because it isn't the newest bestest badest round around and the magazines' advertisers have newer, more better stuff to sell. Fact is the 38 special has ended many, many confrontations. Common loads like 147 or 158 grain flat nosed bullets do respectable damage and are easy to shoot well. That easy to shoot well part is key to it's efectiveness.

38spl works. You hit a coyote with that and he's all done right then and there.

I have a little stainless S&W snubby that I have thankfully never used for keeps, but I never feel like it's not enough gun. I hope you don't feel undergunned either.

mechanic · « **Reply #19 on:** March 22, 2009, 04:38:46 AM »

I've never shot a coyote with a 38 but I have shot a dog some years ago that threatened my well being. I shot him in the head from 10 feet with a 38 inverted wadcutter. (Hollow base out). Not that accurate but the dog died anyway and went to doggie heaven less most of his head.

I believe most folks don't bother to learn to shoot and just rely on bigger and bigger bullets.........a 38 in the head will kill most anything smaller than a grizzley.

bilmac · « **Reply #20 on:** March 22, 2009, 05:25:49 AM »

There is a difference between what a cop needs for a duty gun and what you need for personal protection from someone who is very close. Quick multiple hits are no problem if you are shooting within 10 yards. If you peg someone who is 25 yards away, some smart mouth lawyer may well make your life miserable.

If I was buying a new gun I would probably pay a bit more for a 357 that was similar in size and weight. If I already had a 38 I would not worry a bit about not having enough power. The most important thing is having the gun when you need it.

moxgrove · « **Reply #21 on:** March 22, 2009, 09:17:20 AM »

I used to have 38 special as my only handgun. the little 88 gr 380 acp bullets actually are pretty explosive out of the 38. It did real well on coons

kix · « **Reply #22 on:** March 22, 2009, 03:31:08 PM »

I would feel just fine carrying a 38 Special but as with any cartridge it is practice that makes it deadly. Kix

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #23 on:** March 23, 2009, 02:43:25 AM »

bigeasy , 38 in the pocket beats anything not with ya .

Bigeasy · « **Reply #24 on:** March 23, 2009, 11:19:55 AM »

Shootall -

Agreed..

Skunk · « **Reply #25 on:** March 23, 2009, 11:34:58 AM »

I take my .38 Special most every where I go, although not concealed here in Wisconsin, but loaded with 158gr. Lead Hollow Points to +P pressures, I'm confident it would lay a thumpin and put a hurtin on most anything I fired it at.

slim rem 7 · « **Reply #26 on:** March 26, 2009, 09:24:01 AM »

yes 38s fine ..i use 158 wad cutter an hornady 110 protection rnd..
im not undergunned with either.. of course my berretta 22 lr between the eyes is just as deadly.. killed a many a hog with one..slim

mechanic · « **Reply #27 on:** March 26, 2009, 11:18:51 AM »

There are a whole lot of dead folks, if they could talk, that would verify the .38 is bad news up close. I have a friend who swears by his 9MM. and denigrates the .38. If he understood ballistics he would know all he has is a higher capacity magazine.

For that matter, there have been a lot of folks killed with ...22 and .25 "Sat. night specials" Dead is dead. I wouldn't choose to be shot with either.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #28 on:** March 27, 2009, 01:34:18 AM »

the 9 has a different bullet shape

Mohawk · « **Reply #29 on:** March 27, 2009, 10:58:31 AM »

If there were police officers on this board who worked the beat for the 70 years the .38 was the universal LEO caliber the cartridge would not be doubted. It is not a .357 by no means, but a suitable cartridge by it's own right. Any bullet, cartridge, or caliber that cuts arteries, vascular organs, and major nervous system items is deadly. On one autopsy report I read years ago a taxi cab robber took four .380's in the chest courtesy of the driver. The last round through the leg (thigh), puncturing the femoral artery and was the cause of death. Not the four in the chest. I was never a big believer in the "energy" theory or the "hollowpoint" theory. I only believe that it is not only shot placement, but what structure within the body you hit, regardless of caliber or bullet style. If half of one lung is blown in half by a .357 HP that person can still be treated and can still breath, but if a .25 Auto nicks the aorta or vena cava arteries, then the person hit has probably seen his last day. I remember working ER duty and hearing doctors say "if that artery wasn't hit, we could have pulled them through...". Oh, and the same doctors, some are shooters, say ball ammo and other non-expanding ammo is SEVERELY underrated. They will kill a person as dead as snot. These aren't docs that sit in a home study room and write stuff. They wear "crash suits", and get squirted with blood all night long. I tend to listen to them......... $:-\$