Author Topic: is the 38spl good enough?? (Read 4912 times)

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #30 on:** March 30, 2009, 03:02:13 AM »

good point and the same reason that hunters who go after dangerous game , even light skined use solids and learn where to shoot .

PeterCartwright · « **Reply #31 on:** March 31, 2009, 03:04:59 AM »

Just an observation that the lowly .38 Spl. has benefited from all the R and D from ammo companies over the last decade. It ain't your grampa's .38, anymore. The "FBI" load (158 gr. LSWCHP +P), Speer's "short barrel" 135 gr. +P Gold Dot, DPX (solid copper bullets) all make pretty formidable self-defense rounds. I'm not in LE, but note that their needs differ from (i.e. they exceed) basic self-defense needs. Shooting through windshields etc. isn't likely to be a requirement for simple folks worried about preserving their hides.

PC

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #32 on:** March 31, 2009, 04:14:16 AM »

we have alot of road rage around here ,

rockbilly · « **Reply #33 on:** March 31, 2009, 06:08:04 AM »

The lowly .38 has been the mainstay of military and law enforcement around the world for almost 100 years, how someone could say it is not an effective self defense weapon is beyond me. It has served well and with modern ammo can continue to be an effective SD weapon for many years to come.

As I posted earlier, I would have gone with the .357 just for the option of shooting either type of ammo. Shooting the .38 is fun, it can be used for many applications, and ammo is available and fairly cheap, you can load a 148 gr wadcutter over 2.5 gr of Bullseye and have tons of fun punching paper.

Mohawk · « **Reply #34 on:** March 31, 2009, 10:32:16 AM »

Quote from: PeterCartwright on March 31, 2009, 03:04:59 AM

Just an observation that the lowly .38 Spl. has benefited from all the R and D from ammo companies over the last decade. It ain't your grampa's .38, anymore. The "FBI" load (158 gr. LSWCHP +P), Speer's "short barrel" 135 gr. +P Gold Dot, DPX (solid copper bullets) all make pretty formidable self-defense rounds. I'm not in LE, but note that their needs differ from (i.e. they exceed) basic self-defense needs. Shooting through windshields etc. isn't likely to be a requirement for simple folks worried about preserving their hides.

PC

In reference to handguns, there is not a difference. The only difference is that LEO's have a rifle and shotgun options, civialians normally do not since they have only handguns in such scenarios. And if any person, including LEO's, have to shoot at a windshield they had better make sure the grand jury can't prove that the actor(shooter) had the time, opportunity, and cover to dodge the aggression. No handgun is going to stop a car with relative consistancy. Even a rifle and shotgun is marginal. Find cover. You have a better chance to survive and beating a manslaughter charge if you just find solid cover, run, and let the SOB hit a telephone pole that nose blocks him and splits him in half. Even if you survive, without a shot fired, you have beaten your opponent and protected yourself. Self defense is only necessity not opportunity.

jimster · « **Reply #35 on:** March 31, 2009, 11:38:51 AM »

10-4 on not shooting at a car Mohawk, would be some pretty weird circumstances there, and I live in a State where we do have the right to stop a felony in progress, but even with great laws, you really have to use your head before trying to do something like that, or trying to stop a felony. The main thing is that you stay alive, and nobody else is in danger....from your bullets bouncing off things and going God knows where! If you have cover, find it, secure it, anything coming after you personally will work out much better for you. I'd rather give an LEO a real good description of a car and maybe the plate, than to have to tell him I bounced one off the windshield and have him worry about where that one went. Agree on the self defense thing for sure, any type of offense on fleeing cars/people must be thought out real well before taking that step.

Dave in WV · « **Reply #36 on:** March 31, 2009, 12:20:39 PM »

I'll bet there have been more folks shot dead with a .38 spcl than the .357 mag. Prolly over 50% were shot with the old round nosed bullets too. I have no problem with using a .38 with 158gr SWCHP bullets, Nyclad 125gr LHP, or Magsafe loads. As posted before there are newer bullet/load combpos available that exceed the performance of my perfered .38 loads.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #37 on:** March 31, 2009, 02:34:42 PM »

snub nose 38 or 357 are the only practical options as far as i am concerned

never shot anthing big but hot loaded wadcutters seem to do best on oppossums armadillos racoons ect
in the 38

357 excelles with hps

PeterCartwright · « **Reply #38 on:** April 01, 2009, 01:08:12 AM »

There's an old "spook" (CIA operative) named Ed Lovette who wrote a neat little book on the venerable snubnose genre of self-defense arms. It's a great read. Lovette has wonderful things to say about the effectiveness of this tool and this from someone who's been "over the mountain and seen the elephant". His stories about actual .38 Spl. performance in real life situations is enlightening.

PC

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #39 on:** April 02, 2009, 03:00:32 AM »

rockbilly , a case can be made for it not being efficent today because things have changed . Wide spread use of drugs The 38 colt failed around the turn of the century 109 years ago when drug craised warriors we faced . The use of body armor etc.
But for non military or such it would seem a good choice still .

Hodr · « **Reply #40 on:** April 02, 2009, 03:31:01 AM »

After surgery I had problems with recoil on my 357. I switced to 9mm (read .380) due to lesser recoil and weight of weapon. Having said that, the 38 spl was the other option. The 38spl will stop just about anything up to 250 lbs quite easily. It will also do it with less recoil and noise. The best answer to your friends jibes is a target with six holes at 50 feet you can cover with one hand.
blindhari

rockbilly · « **Reply #41 on:** April 02, 2009, 08:34:52 AM »

Shototall, I have to agree. There are exceptions to most every rule, but in 99% (WAG) of the cases it should be effective.

Mohawk · « **Reply #42 on:** April 02, 2009, 09:03:20 AM »

If there was any civilian situation to where a .38 was inadequate then......it was never meant to be. My former partner was driving the ransom drop off vehicle when the girl in Horseshoe Bay, TX was kidnapped several years ago. The Texas Ranger in the backseat, hiding under a blanket in the backseat floorboard, was murdered by the kidnapper. A .44 Magnum to the head. Other Rangers smoked the driver accordingly and the girl was rescued. That same girl died in a plane crash not long after. We can't change circumstances no matter what we're armed with.

jamaldog87 · « **Reply #43 on:** April 02, 2009, 09:42:08 AM »

i have never used a 38spl but i have used a 380 1934 for hunting of pigs(100pounds or less) and coyotes so, i can say that the 380 will kill with a well place shot and at least on coyotes it kills with a body shot. I also know a Vet that was in the airfore. He carried a 45 most of the time , but he was in a small town and he was shot in the chest by a NVA guy and it stopped him and he went down in the dirt very hard. The NVA thinking he was dead left him there and he would have die there if the other people in his group had not had hear the shot. Now, garry was a 250lb line backer in the day and he was shot with a 38 S&W Lead Round Nose Bullet from a Webley. I bet if i asked him is the 38spl is a good gun he would just point the the scar on his chest and say " what do you think, dumb a#$".

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #44 on:** April 02, 2009, 10:25:04 AM »

killing something and stoping something before it hurts you are very different . Failure to stop someone intent on hurting you for even a few seconds can have bad effects on you up to and including your own death. Shooting a pig or person is very different at times most pigs arent intent on hurting you , even a charge can be sidesteped in most cases . On the other hand someone trying to kill you with the means has to be stoped PERIOD ! If the 38 or for that matter the 357 was 100% effective then it would not be rated in the 60 % range . Think about that for a min. if ten people attack you 4 will get thru. if the charts are correct . In 4 cases then we can assume the 38 was not adequate . A case can be made that anything worth shooting once is worth shooting several times , but with pig or man often times there is time for but one shot .
I carry the 357 mag. now it weighs 12 oz unloaded , kicks like a mule but carries well . It is in a cal. that ranks # 1 for one shot stops but still not 100% thus. not 100% adequate . A comprise if you will one i hope i can live with . Each of us has to weigh what we can affort , control , hide , and live with . I suggest all carry the weapon with the highest chance of a one shot stop they can live with . You owe it to yourself and family .

jamaldog87 · « **Reply #45 on:** April 03, 2009, 11:17:43 AM »

yes that is true but even a 12ga 1 ou slug has not stopped people. But many things go into chooseing a CCW, like what you can carry, were you live(hot or cold most of the year), and other things. Everyone says and carry diffenet kinds of guns for there own reason. To me the just about best one shot stopper is the 45long colt but there no guns that could be carryed in this cal., so i would carry a 38 with SWC or Hornady Critical Defense and not worry to much about stopping power. keep shooting tell the attacker is down is what i learned, also people can be down but not out. Just look at Iraq/Afghanistan were people were down but still had some power left to get off some shots or set off a bomb. also if you were attack by more then a few people with a 5 shooter then you would be a easy target when you started your reload, but as most gun fight are over in a few rounds, but any thing could happen. That makes a good case for carrying a 40 or larger auto with a lage mag(like a sig 229,239, or something along those lines). But i just a kid so i don't know anything

.

also when i was pig hunting i had a mix load of FMJ and JHP and most times it took more then one shot on pigs , yotes were down with one shot.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #46 on:** April 03, 2009, 04:14:45 PM »

Quote from: jamaldog87 on April 03, 2009, 11:17:43 AM

yes that is true but even a 12ga 1 ou slug has not stopped people. But many things go into chooseing a CCW, like what you can carry, were you live(hot or cold most of the year), and other things. Everyone says and carry diffenet kinds of guns for there own reason. To me the just about best one shot stopper is the 45long colt but there no guns that could be carryed in this cal., so i would carry a 38 with SWC or Hornady Critical Defense and not worry to much about stopping power. keep shooting tell the attacker is down is what i learned, also people can be down but not out. Just look at Iraq/Afghanistan were people were down but still had some power left to get off some shots or set off a bomb. also if you were attack by more then a few people with a 5 shooter then you would be a easy target when you started your reload, but as most gun fight are over in a few rounds, but any thing could happen. That makes a good case for carrying a 40 or larger auto with a lage mag(like a sig 229,239, or something along those lines). But i just a kid so i don't know anything .

also when i was pig hunting i had a mix load of FMJ and JHP and most times it took more then one shot on pigs , yotes were down with one shot.

every thing is a comprimize
why we carry 38 and 357

32 too small 44 getting too big

44 Man · « **Reply #47 on:** April 07, 2009, 03:53:41 AM »

38's work very well with a hard cast lead SWC loaded to +P velocities. That's what I often carry in mine. Heard all the horror stories about reloads in a defence gun, but I will choose effectiveness and worry about the courts afterwards. It works very well putting down an injured deer quickly. It's between the hard cast and the Federal soft lead SWC HP in +P. They are a very effective load in a snub through light clothing, but not as good for penetrating a lot of winter clothing or leather, hence the hard cast load. Pick your load for the circumstances it must handle. 44 Man.

jamaldog87 · « **Reply #48 on:** April 07, 2009, 09:47:36 AM »

i have hear good things about the Hornady Critical Defense ammo. It was made just for 2'' subs and seem to work well.

from hornady.com

Concealed carry and personal defense ammunition is redefined with the introduction of Hornady Critical Defense ammunition. You may have never thought about the effects of fabric and clothing on the performance of personal defense ammo. But clothing — especially heavy clothing — has a lot to do with how the bullet expands upon impact.

It's a dirty little secret, but conventional hollow point bullets often experience tip clogging as the bullet passes through light and heavy clothing, which diminishes expansion and causes unreliable bullet performance.

Hornady Critical Defense ammunition eliminates clogging with the use of their patented Flex Tip® bullet. Upon entering soft tissue, the tip swells and imparts equal pressure across the entire circumference of the bullet cavity. The result is unrivaled bullet expansion and performance every single time!

Purpose-built for Concealed Carry Guns.

• Unaffected by thick and heavy clothing, including denim and leather.
• FTX™ bullet delivers superior controlled expansion and large, deep wound cavities over a wide range of velocities.
• Clean burning and stable propellants reduce recoil in lightweight handguns, and perform consistently in all temperatures.
• Minimal muzzle flash protects night vision.
• Feeds reliably in pistols.
• Shiny silver nickel plating prevents corrosion, and is easily visible in low light situations.
• Bullets are cannelured and crimped to avoid bullet setback.
• Bullets are custom designed for individual loads.
• The most effective, consistent, and reliable self-defense ammunition available today!

454Puma · « **Reply #49 on:** May 12, 2009, 06:56:36 PM »

This is why I subscribe to the 2-1 shooting! Thats 2 in the chest 1 in the head! Cause if two in the chest don't stop them then one between the eyes will definately put an end to it!

As for the OP's question yes! Though I carry a SP101 357 mag, it does get stuffed with 38 Spl quite a bit! In fact right now it stuffed with 357 158gr cast over 6 gr Unique, runs about 1000 fps!

Graybeard · « **Reply #50 on:** May 13, 2009, 01:26:12 AM »

Quote from: 454Puma on May 12, 2009, 06:56:36 PM

This is why I subscribe to the 2-1 shooting! Thats 2 in the chest 1 in the head! Cause if two in the chest don't stop them then one between the eyes will definately put an end to it! As for the OP's question yes! Though I carry a SP101 357 mag, it does get stuffed with 38 Spl quite a bit! In fact right now it stuffed with 357 158gr cast over 6 gr Unique, runs about 1000 fps!

I don't think I'd want to have to explain that one to the fore head to a jury following two to the chest. I think most folks on a jury would be hard to convince it wasn't a mafia style hit.

Mikey · « **Reply #51 on:** May 13, 2009, 01:40:57 AM »

"I don't think I'd want to have to explain that one to the fore head to a jury following two to the chest. I think most folks on a jury would be hard to convince it wasn't a mafia style hit". Bill - you are soooo right. Thanks!

lrs · « **Reply #52 on:** June 16, 2009, 08:56:29 AM »

When I was growing up, an old man who was a friend of the family, was said to carry a .38 snubnose in his front pants pocket. I think he wore dickies work pants.
I have never owned a snubnose revolver, I don't know if this is a viable way to carry a concealed firearm, or not.
If it fits in your front pocket, w/o being noticeable or cumbersome, it might be a good choice for some folks.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #53 on:** June 16, 2009, 09:06:18 AM »

irs - yes indeed !

lrs · « **Reply #54 on:** June 16, 2009, 09:34:32 AM »

Actually, it is Lrs. I am in no way, shape, matter or form, related to anything with the initials irs.

Shootall why don't you elaborate, on the yes indeed.
Inquiring minds want to know.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #55 on:** June 16, 2009, 09:46:51 AM »

I carry mine that way and have for years . I can carry all year that way ( no speedos for me ) . Nothing to really elaborate really . I tried several types carry and front pocket works well most of the time . I do use a pocket holster to keep the gun in position . I do like a revolver over an auto .
Sorry about the i for l no harm intended .

lrs · « **Reply #56 on:** June 16, 2009, 10:46:20 AM »

I have been looking at various pistolas for ccw. They have more small, compact, midsize, full size semi-autos, revolvers, etc. than you can shake a stick at. Good ones, too.
Then there are holsters that provide the means to carry in any configuration you could ever want.
For myself, I like things to be simple. This might be the way to go.
Do you use a .38 or a .357.
Whichever one it is, do you use the model with the exposed hammer?

AtlLaw · « **Reply #57 on:** June 16, 2009, 11:12:00 AM »

Quote from: lrs on June 16, 2009, 10:46:20 AM

Do you use a .38 or a .357.
Whichever one it is, do you use the model with the exposed hammer?

I've carried a S&W .38 Spl. M49 "BodyGuard" for over 35 years now. It has the hammer shroud. On duty it was my backup gun and my regular off-duty carry gun. I still carry it, usually in a pocket holster since my "Pager-Pal" holster broke. The factory grips are worn down below the metal and I never felt under gunned.

Mohawk · « **Reply #58 on:** June 16, 2009, 11:58:38 AM »

I am willing to bargain that the .38 Special has saved more lives than antibiotics and taken more lives than cigarettes. Though I have never carried anything smaller than a k-frame, on or off duty, it was a good balance, if not perfect, for the caliber. Thought about picking up a .38 snub j-frame but never really had the need since the k-frame has served well, even the snub Model 10.

lrs · « **Reply #59 on:** June 16, 2009, 02:11:18 PM »

I was also thinking if I got the .357 snubnose, I'll be a needin a .357 rifle to go along with it.