VENT LINER NOT IN CENTER

[sproulman]

anyone come accross their vent liner not in middle of the pan.

i have t/c hawkins that has one that is wayback.

my other one is dead center.

i wonder how that can be fixed?

[coyotejoe]

As soon as I saw the title of your post I thought "bet it's a T/C". I have a couple of T/C's with the vent far forward of the pan center and it is a common complaint with T/C's. I don't know why they can't get it right, everyone else seems to do so. There is no "easy" fix. Perhaps you can move the tang forward a bit and glass bed it but that will also cause problems with the underlug. There is lots of metal in the lug so you could probably file the slot longer to the rear and make that work, then you'd have a slight gap between the forend cap and the ramrod rib. You also can grind the pan a bit more to the rear. But probably the best solution is to either trade the T/C for a Lyman or just live with it as is. It's not "right" but it will work.

[sproulman]

you know, i never noticed it for 38 years or so.

now, i looked and i see those vents all over place on a T/C  flintlock.

someone said they felt if they were more to rear of pan,it worked better.

why company as good as them would ever let something like this happen.

i wonder if a shim could be made between tang and barrel to move it out but that would screw up the key to hold barrel in place.

still seems strange that 38 years ago this happened on mine and it still happening,they have to know it.

even cheaper guns can get the vent in middle of pan.

[sproulman]

As soon as I saw the title of your post I thought "bet it's a T/C". I have a couple of T/C's with the vent far forward of the pan center and it is a common complaint with T/C's. I don't know why they can't get it right, everyone else seems to do so. There is no "easy" fix. Perhaps you can move the tang forward a bit and glass bed it but that will also cause problems with the underlug. There is lots of metal in the lug so you could probably file the slot longer to the rear and make that work, then you'd have a slight gap between the forend cap and the ramrod rib. You also can grind the pan a bit more to the rear. But probably the best solution is to either trade the T/C for a Lyman or just live with it as is. It's not "right" but it will work.

i talked to t/c gunsmith today.

they said new guns have it in center and higher.

now, the people that wanted it higher are complaining that its not firing as good as lower.



he said that as long as vent is not covered,it will go off.

but now the higher vents are acting up.

his opinion, stay with lower vent even if not on center,it will be no problem.

[flintlock]

The proper place to have the vent is centered, and high...When you close the frizzen the hole should be behind the foot of the frizzen so it doesn't get plugged with prime...If you draw a +
with the vertical line centered horizontial and the horzontial line being the top of the pan...
The base of the touch hole should touch the horzontial line or be above the top of the pan...

With a coned touch hole, sharp flint and real black powder ignition will be fast and reliable...

[coyotejoe]

As soon as I saw the title of your post I thought "bet it's a T/C". I have a couple of T/C's with the vent far forward of the pan center and it is a common complaint with T/C's. I don't know why they can't get it right, everyone else seems to do so. There is no "easy" fix. Perhaps you can move the tang forward a bit and glass bed it but that will also cause problems with the underlug. There is lots of metal in the lug so you could probably file the slot longer to the rear and make that work, then you'd have a slight gap between the forend cap and the ramrod rib. You also can grind the pan a bit more to the rear. But probably the best solution is to either trade the T/C for a Lyman or just live with it as is. It's not "right" but it will work.

i talked to t/c gunsmith today.

they said new guns have it in center and higher.

now, the people that wanted it higher are complaining that its not firing as good as lower.



he said that as long as vent is not covered,it will go off.

but now the higher vents are acting up.

his opinion, stay with lower vent even if not on center,it will be no problem.

I wouldn't waste my time talking to anyone at T/C.  If they knew what they were doing or if they even cared, they would have greatly improved their product over the past forty years.

[Swampman]

It's not a big deal.  Front to rear doesn't matter.  Up and down can matter.  Have you shot it?

[sproulman]

swampman, i have 3 from 1970 and all fire fine.

you are right on vent if its too high.

t/c told me the hunters said old way was too low,so they raised the vent up and put it dead center.

NOW  they are getting complaints that vents are too HIGH.

gunsmith said that every gun he shot for 30 years went off no matter if the vent was in center or not,he said they should have left it alone.

[coyotejoe]

gunsmith said that every gun he shot for 30 years went off no matter if the vent was in center or not,he said they should have left it alone.

Pretty much what I'd expect to hear from a T/C employee, "well it went off didn't it?"  The problem was never one of too high or too low, the problem is  that every T/C rifle is different. I have no doubt the barrels are all the same but they don't set the same in relation to the lock in two different stocks. The gunsmith with whom you spoke should be aware of that, he was just feeding you a crock of bull. He knows full well that no matter where they drill the barrel some will be too high, some too low, some too far forward or back when that barrel is installed on a rifle. It is the stocks that are inconsistent. The proper method is to assemble the rifle and mark the vent location before drilling it, otherwise it requires precision in cutting the stock so that the lock and barrel are always in exactly the same relationship. It is not a barrel or vent issue, the issue is T/C's production methods which don't place the lock in any consistent relationship to the pre-drilled barrel vent.

[Ladobe]

... i have 3 from 1969 and all fire fine.

I'd bet you meant to say from sometime after Aug 1970.   

[flintlock]

I agree with Coyotejoe...I've built several flintlocks and drilling the hole for the vent is one of the las things done...If it's not in the right location as I mentioned previously you will have problems...

[sproulman]

... i have 3 from 1969 and all fire fine.

I'd bet you meant to say from sometime after Aug 1970.   

I HAVE TO GUESS ON WHEN THESE 3 WERE BOUGHT AT UNKLE JOES WOODSHED.
it could be 1970,it was before we were 18 years old,i even thought it was 1968 .

i think t/c sold them in 1967, not sure on that also, just guess.

[sproulman]

I agree with Coyotejoe...I've built several flintlocks and drilling the hole for the vent is one of the las things done...If it's not in the right location as I mentioned previously you will have problems...

t/c has no solution to off center vents,they say they will go off as long as they are NOT HIGH.

newer ones are higher and they are now getting lots of complaints.

[sproulman]

The proper place to have the vent is centered, and high...When you close the frizzen the hole should be behind the foot of the frizzen so it doesn't get plugged with prime...If you draw a +
with the vertical line centered horizontial and the horzontial line being the top of the pan...
The base of the touch hole should touch the horzontial line or be above the top of the pan...

With a coned touch hole, sharp flint and real black powder ignition will be fast and reliable...

2 of my hawkins ,the top of pan is almost at TOP  of the hole in new t/c vent and both are to rear.


the one that is in middle the top of pan is at BOTTOM of the new t/c vent hole.

[necchi]

You guy's should take the T/C Hawkin for what it is. An "Off the Shelf" factory gun, and a good one for the most part. If you want your gun to work a little better than most, well than, tune it a little better than most. If the vents too low, shim the tang. Too high? Then shave some wood and use a file. It's easy,,too forward? too back? get a different vent.
 That kinda stuff is what traditonal bp guns are all about for me. It's the challenge of obtaining the accuracy and reliability I create for myself that bring's satisfaction.
 Heck, if I wanted what everyone else has with no effort, I wouldn't be shooting rock tossers

[flintlock]

You guy's should take the T/C Hawkin for what it is. An "Off the Shelf" factory gun, and a good one for the most part. If you want your gun to work a little better than most, well than, tune it a little better than most. If the vents too low, shim the tang. Too high? Then shave some wood and use a file. It's easy,,too forward? too back? get a different vent.
 That kinda stuff is what traditonal bp guns are all about for me. It's the challenge of obtaining the accuracy and reliability I create for myself that bring's satisfaction.
 Heck, if I wanted what everyone else has with no effort, I wouldn't be shooting rock tossers

Agreed...I've never owned a factory made flintlock, started building and shooting these things in the 70s...Seems to me that T/C needs to find someone that knows what they are doing...

[Swampman]

I thought the same thing until I bought a used T/C.  Mine works fine.  Even "custom made" flintlocks can be crap.  I've examined many that were.  A bulider will normally get it right after they've built 10-15 guns.  They normally sell the ones they practiced on.  The up side is that most folks don't know right from wrong so they are happy.

[Ladobe]

... i have 3 from 1969 and all fire fine.

I'd bet you meant to say from sometime after Aug 1970.   

I HAVE TO GUESS ON WHEN THESE 3 WERE BOUGHT AT UNKLE JOES WOODSHED.
it could be 1970,it was before we were 18 years old,i even thought it was 1968 .

i think t/c sold them in 1967, not sure on that also, just guess.

"still seems strange that 47 years ago this happened on mine and it still happening"

"i have 3 from 1969 and all fire fine"


Just thought the facts would help since your guesses change.   TC started in 1967 but only sold Contender's until the first Hawken's were shipped by them in Aug 1970.   

[sproulman]

i graduated from school in 1971.

our dad bought us each 1 and 1 for himself.

so, i must have been around 16/17 and my brother was 14 if that aug date is correct.

i have all 3 ,i wish 1 was .54 cal.

[Ladobe]

Date is correct, and their 25 year anniversary model Hawken is dated Aug 1995.

I bought two, a 50 and a 54 (both cappers) sometime after they came out.   Took a lot of mule deer and elk with them until I stopped hunting BG well into the 80's.   

[sproulman]

i read somewhere, i cant find it ,that you can take your serial no. and it will tell you date made.

you ever come accross that, thanks.

[gvnut]

Sproulman,
There is an article in March 2009 Muzzle Blasts that does some testing in regards to touchhole placement and the results seem to show that it is more critical to have the priming charge close to the touchhole rather than where the touchhole is located.  A lot of us old flinters have thought the priming charge should be away from the touchhole. The flintlocks I have built have the touchhole at the top of the pan and centered but maybe it is not as important as it seems other than for the craftsmanship aspects.  It will give me something to experiment with.

[sproulman]

that may be test that showed closer to vent was better than far away.

i read that somewhere.

i guess it will put my powder in middle of pan

[flintlock]

Better to have the vent high and in the center, where it belongs...Then you can fill the dang pan up, close the frizzen and forget it...

[Ladobe]

i read somewhere, i cant find it ,that you can take your serial no. and it will tell you date made.

you ever come accross that, thanks.

That's 100% not true, so whatever you read was either not about TC muzzleloaders, or written by someone else who doesn't know what he's talking about.   

TC serial numbers do not include a year code, and they never have.   Each model had its own serial number range, and so did special barrel runs and model runs (like the Hawken 1:66 RB barrels for example).   So determining when a rifle was made by serial number or otherwise from 1970-1997 is entirely speculation because the factory production records were lost in the plant fire in March that year along with most of the muzzleloader tooling.    TC would have the records of the few new rifles they've built since the fire, but they don't make that information available.

     

[sproulman]

what i read was a person had the t/c range of numbers and if your number was in that range ,it was from that period.

if i get time ,i will try to find it.

you seem to know more on this,so i guess there is no records.

after you said fire,  I NOW REMEMBER THAT TOO...

anything else you have on t/c ,would be interesting to read what you know.

thanks sproulman

[Winter Hawk]

To answer the original question, since the T-C uses a patent breech, you could order a new breech plug from Track of the Wolf and drill it for the touch hole at the correct location.

-Winter Hawk-

[sproulman]

To answer the original question, since the T-C uses a patent breech, you could order a new breech plug from Track of the Wolf and drill it for the touch hole at the correct location.

-Winter Hawk-

maybe t/c could drill one and replace it,i bet no charge to.

thats good idea,if mine did not seem to have problem where it is, i would give that a try.

good info, thanks.