Options for trade-in

[Wijbrandus]

I've got a good dealer in my neighborhood, and I'm thinking of trading in my Ruger Redhawk .454.  It's just too heavy, and too much power for me.  I'm pretty sure I want to move to a lighter single-action.  They just seem more sensible now that I've recovered from my bout of 'magnumitis'.

My problem is coming in as far as caliber and make.  I don't reload yet, and I'm wondering what model would be a better fit.  I like the Rugers, and caliber will probably be in either .44 or .45LC.  My primary concern is having a decent sidearm for hunting and camping since my .45 auto doesn't meet the legal requirements for a hunting sidearm in CO for big game.

Any of you who may have shot both the .454 and the .44 or .45 have a recommendation as to how I can tone down the felt recoil?  Am I even making any sense this late at night?  I just spent two hours at the range trying to get over my issues with my .454 and I'm firmly convinced now I won't.

Thanks,

~Robert
 Denver, CO

[KN]

I would think a super blackhawk would fit the bill nicely. I have a birds head vaquaro in 45 colt that is real nice to carry ,but with the short barrel full power loads are a handfull. Might try a bisley also, I don't have one (yet), gut alot of folks prefer the grip over the super blackhawk.  KN

[TScottO]

If you aren't going to reload then the 44 would be your best option. Spending the money on custom 45 Colt ammo isn't worth it in my opinion when there is a wide variety of suitable 44 ammo on the shelf.

I don't know your history with firearms but a 454 is a pretty big step if you weren't use to a fair amount of recoil to begin with. Maybe stepping down to something smaller is the answer for you.

There is a physical element to handling recoil but it's a very small part. Handling recoil is in your head more than anything else. As long as you think you will not be able to endure the recoil then you won’t ever be able to handle it. I'd like to see you clear your mind of "power...issues...recoil...taming down" and give the 454 another shot. I honestly hate to see someone get rid of a gun for this reason. I remember not too long ago when my 454 had me scared to death but now I'm off to bigger guns and enjoy the hell out of them.

You can try buying a good pair of fingerless leather gloves from a hardware store and use them with your 454 though I don't think it's your hands that are the problem since you were able to last through two hours of shooting. If your hands aren't the problem then the physical element is taken care of. The blast is nothing more than pressure and burning powder being vented into the air accompanied by a loud noise.

All in all the most important thing is to have something you enjoy shooting and can shoot well.

Good luck and be safe,
Scott

[Lloyd Smale]

you wont find a better gun for the money then a super blackhawk. The .44 is the only way to go if you dont reload. If your concerned about size try to find a 5 1/2 inch gun or better yet one of the limited run bisleys stainless guns in .44 mine is one of the most accurate handguns I have.

[Graybeard]

Trading your SRH for a Taurus RB in same .454 Casull would solve the recoil tolerance problem just fine. But really so would just sticking with the Winchester mid range load they offer in .454 Casull. It is more than adequate for 99% of the use to which you are likely to put it.

If you trade for another gun and not the RB then get a .44 Mag. All the power you'll ever need and a far wider selection of factory ammo at reasonable prices without having to go to the small maker premium stuff that while super great is very expensive.

GB

[les hemby]

not real sure on 454 but couldnt he shoot 45lc for practice, however the mid pressure winchesters grey beard was talking about may be the better option. I am going to have the same problem with a 4.62 barrel 44sbh. i am going to start with 44spec or light magnums, master them then move up. i'm gonna whoop it just dont want to develop a flinch right off :wink:i would also agree with scott it will be easier to find light 44 loads than heavy 45. i just dont know where the extra little oomp you can get outa 45 handload is enough to matter in real world. whatever you hit i dont believe will ever notice difference between 44 and 45. either one aint gonna be pretty

[Wijbrandus]

Ok, played hooky today because this was bugging me so much.

Went to the range, and fired a box of .45LC for fun.  Then I fired a box of .454 with a shooting glove on (been using this since day one anyway).  This is the Winchester 300? grain load I believe GB is talking about.  Been using that from day one too.  I finished off my original stash of three boxes now.

I've decided why I've got issues with this revolver, and I've settled on a couple of things.

1)  454 is just too much power.  I feel uncontrolled.

2)  .45LC stock stuff is just too light.  I looked a bit at some hot 45, and it's pricing is a little on the hot side too.  .44 however was rather reasonably priced.  I could feed this howitzer hot 45s, but then I feel I'm carrying excess weight and for more $$ than I need to spend.

I stopped by a local sporting goods shop and checked out the BlackHawks.  Very nice revolvers.  I'm rather fond of the Vaquero look, with the fixed sights.  The grip is too small for my hands, though, and they didn't have any of the other grips in stock.  Is there a BH with a grip for big hands?  Or would I be better off going to say a .44 SRH?  I don't feel I need double-action, but I may for the grip.

Sorry for all the questions.  The two guys I know that are into this stuff are just a little over 5' and have no issues at all.  They can't relate to a 6' 2" lug with ham fists.   :?

~Robert
 Denver, CO

[TScottO]

This is the gun Lloyd was talking about

http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAProdView?model=861&return=Y

If I were to choose a 44 magnum it would be a Ruger Bisley, as per above link, or either a S&W 629. I've never owned a Taurus but I've heard enough good things about them lately that I would consider one. The Ruger Bisley may be a better grip for you.

The Vanquero is a nice gun also but if  you are considering hunting I would stay with adjustable site for sure. I would also spend 65 extra bucks and order Bowen's rear sight ----> http://www.bowenclassicarms.com/shop/

Good luck and be safe,
Scott

[Wijbrandus]

Another 'dumb' question...

How do the different Ruger grips affect shooting?  I read elsewhere that someone could take less recoil using a Bisley grip, even though it fit his hand better, than he could using the regular one.  It's all very confusing, and I don't really have the opportunity to try before I buy.

Thanks.  Y'all are the best for answering rookie questions and not making me feel like a total dumbass.  

~Robert
 Denver, CO

[targetshootr]

the super blackhawk has a longer grip than the standard blackhawk. but it also has the straight back trigger guard which has been known to whack knuckles.

no matter which route you go, i recommend getting into loading your own ammo if you plan to shoot for years to come. its a ton of fun on those days and nights when you cant shoot and you can make your ammo as hot or mild as you like.

sometimes i go shooting just because i dont have any empties to load up.

[myronman3]

here is my take on your problem: really think about starting to reload.    i went through the same stuff you did and before i did anything drastic i devolped a "light" load for the 454.   i use 300 grain hornady xtp's with 12 grains of unique and a cci small rifle primer.  these clock 1155 out of my 6.5 inch raging bull.   REALLY easy on the shooter and about at 44 mag velocities (maybe a tad more).   tha added mass of the 454 revolvers tames the recoil like you wouldnt believe.  
  i use a lee kit for reloading, with lee carbide 454 dies.  they are a great way for someone to open the door to the wonderful world of reloading for not alot of cash.    there are so many advantages to reloading, but the biggest one is that you can make a load to do exactly what you want to do; at any level.   for less than 100 bones you would be set up.   last time i checked, that equals about two boxes of 454 factory ammo.  

p.s.  i hope you saved your 454 brass.  :shock:

[Graybeard]

The Winchester mid range load I was referring to is a 250 grain bullet at normal .44 mag 240 grain velocity. About 1350fps as I recall. Definitely far milder than the Winchester 300 grain load which is full house.

Robert I feel from reading your posts that you have had limited experience to date with revolvers and especially those that come back at ya with some authority. So let me make some comments based on that assumption. IF it is wrong you can correct me.

Single action guns and double action guns handle recoil totally differently. Geneally speaking a person either likes the way one or the other delivers the recoil and thinks that is the one that recoils less. But such is not the case. It is not that one handles it better than the other so much as it is that one delivers it to them the way they prefer it be delivered.

A single action rolls in the hand which in theory transfers less of the shock of recoil to the hand. I say in theory because it really depends on how you hold the gun. I use a very light grip and invaribily I lose blood when shooting a single action with heavy recoiling loads. My grip isn't tight enough to arrest the rolling in time and the hammer cuts me open.

A double action on the other hand delivers the recoil more straight back into the web of your hand. This works far better for me with my light grip and is what I prefer.

The Bisley grip is neither fish nor fowl. It doesn't roll quite like the single action grips but then it doesn't deliver the recoil straight back either. It does a little of both. I can take much more recoil from a Bisley grip than a normal SA grip but not even in the ball park of what I can take from a double action grip.

I find 300s at 1200 fps brutal in my Bisley which weights 48 oz. I find 325s at 1550 fps comfortable in my RB .454 Casull and 440s at about 1100-1150 fps comfortable in my RB .480. In my old S&W 29 with 10-5/8" barrel which weighted 52 oz. I found max loads with 240-300 grain loads a breeze and often shot as many as 500 in a single day with no problem. Same goes for the new Taurus. Max loads well in excess of what is painful to me in the Bisley are still comfortable.

So I advise you if you've not handled heavy recoil in a single action to find some way to borrow one and shoot it before you spend the money on one. You may love it or you may hate it worse that what you have now. I still say if you'll try the Winchester 250 grain mid range loads at 1350 fps you'll not have a problem with the recoil. That's normal .44 mag performance and at about .44 mag prices.

GB

[Wijbrandus]

Greybeard,

Thanks for that advice.  I'll definitely take that step.  Let me see if I can locate some of the Winchester 250s and try it out.

This is my first revolver.  I've always used an auto before, thanks to the bias the US Army instills in it's victims ... I mean volunteers.    I'll also make a point of shooting my friend's SBH in .44 and see if it's any different.  I didn't know most of what you just told me about the different revolvers, so I've definitely got something to chew on for a while now.

Besides, I've had this gun for going on a year now.  It's not like I'm chomping at the bit to turn it in.  That must mean I really want to keep it, don't it?  Hey, maybe I'll just end up adding a .44 if I get this one under control...

Out of here for the weekend.  I'll check back next week for more words of wisdom.

~Robert
 Denver, CO

[1GLOCK]

Ive got a super blackhawk hunter 44 mag. Its probably a little heavy for carying camping but for hunting its perfect with the nikon monarch scope and Houge Monogrips, the monogrips should solve any problems with the grip being too small. My next purchase will be a 45lc vaquero though, just for fun. If i had it to do over Id never trade another gun because Ive always regreted it later.

[Blackhawk44]

Wijbrandus- Another option- Trade for a 45 Blackhawk with both cylinders, Colt and ACP.  Use the ACP for targets and cheap practice (bulk reloads or Wolf), the Colt for walking around, and only a handfull of the Big Bores or CorBons for heavy business.  Like 454's, you won't need that many.  After a while you might even get into reloading and you'll already have the perfect piece!

[Jim n Iowa]

I own a sbh 7.5, a Taurus 8.75 and a rh 5.5, all in 44. The 2 Rugers perform about the same , the recoil in felt recoil same , even though the Taurus is ported. Very accurate if you can use a rest, wobbly for me with out. If I were to recomend a 44mag it would be the Redhawk which I have in 5.5. Very strong frame, however as you mentioned small grips. I replaced both Rugers with Pach declerator grips, larger and picks some recoil. For the $ the Redhawk is a buy. Most pistol hunting is done in single action mode sooo.
Jim

[Tom W.]

targetshootr,

Both my SBH and my BH have the same frame. The BH is the .45Colt/.45 ACP and the SBH  is S/S with fluted cylinder and rounded trigger guard. I had to replace the Pachmayrs on the SBH after 10 years, and had bought some for the BH that I really didn't need, and they were interchangeable. They have the XR3-RED Frame, according to the box the Pachmayrs came in, the biggest difference in the two is the hammer shape and the SBH is  S/S.
I'm eagerly looking forward to getting a SRH in .480 Ruger or .454 Casull, altho I think I'll opt for the .480.
Can't beat the Rugers for the price or the strength, in my mind!

[Don Dick]

Greybeard is right I had the 454 the 250 grain loads will solve your problem and you will not lose money on the trade.   Do not trade, buy another gun if you must.  Remember the story of the guy that started with a cow and ended with some beans.  :cry:

[Lloyd Smale]

Like Greybeard said recoil is a subjective thing some people have different opionions and different levels of tolerance. To me the bisley is far better then a DA in handling recoil. Personaly I dont think it means a bit of difference in a .44 mag as they dont recoil enough to bother me with any grip frame. But when you get into the real big guns the bisley the way to go. Thats why some custom gun makers wont even make a .475 on a da frame. Never shot a tarus .44 but have shot lots of rugers both black hawk and bisley and ruger redhawks and smith 29s and the bisley to me is the easiest to handle and the 29s are the worse.

[Steve P]

I always like to jump in on a good conversation and throw in fire cracker or two.  When I was a kid, my uncle bought a new gun called a Ruger Super Blackhawk.  44 Magnum.  Dirty Harry.  You all know the things going on back then. "The most powerful handgun in the world".

 I got a chance to shoot that gun the first day I saw it.  I think my dad and two uncles got a bigger kick than I did.  First shot was at a playing card ace thumb tacked to a cardboard box that a washing machine came in at 25 yards.  First shot just missed taking the center out of that playing card.  Next shot missed the whole box.  

Good lesson learned by me.  When I wasn't thinking about the recoil, I was a pretty fair shot.  When I was expecting the recoil, I couldn't hit the cardboard size of a washing machine.  

Since those days, I have purchased a lot of handguns and fired a few thousand rounds.  I can only imagine what I would have done as a kid with a full house 300 grn load like I shoot in my 10" SB.  The 180 grain load offered then is mild in comparison.  

Through the years there have been a lot of lessons learned.  One of the first when I started shooting at targets, noise.  The noise makes me jump more than the recoil.  Even if painful recoil.  I now use custom ear plugs and ear muffs.  Both.  Same time.  Double protection.  Try going "double plugged".

Next lesson I learned was learn the gun.  I didn't learn my 44 starting with 300 grain loads, my 357s with 210 grain loads, etc.  I start with the lowest weight bullet in the lightest load configuration.  Learn to shoot that.  Then work you way up with your comfort level.  

I have some hot and I mean HOT loads for MY guns.  When I shoot these loads, I usually shoot a cylinder or two of my mild loads to warm myself up, then will shoot a cylinder or two of hot loads.  10-12 hot loads is plenty enough for one session of just plinking.  Anything more than that becomes wasteful as you start to flinch and overcompensate.

With my 7mm Magnum and 338 Win mag rifles, I can shoot moa until about 15-20 rounds.  After that in a day, you can watch the group size increase dramatically.  You get frustrated, you blame it on the gun, until next time you go out and make a 3/4" polka dot sticker disappear in 5 shots at 100 yards.

I said lots of things, but you have to read between the lines.  Cover your ears.  It's the noise you are afraid of.  Shoot lots of mild loads and just a few "hot" loads.  You will learn to love your gun.  That 454 has the capabilities to do a lot for you.  Take advantage of it.

Shoot straight, be safe, enjoy the sport.

Steve  

[Old Griz]

I tend to agree with Lloyd Smale that a .44 mag doesn't feel that much different whether it's a DA or SA (I think that's what he meant!). Go to your local dealer and feel a Bisley grip. It has all the advantages of both worlds. The grip is long enough to get all your fingers around it, and it tames recoil better than the others. I love my DA Colt Anaconda with rubber grips, and it's a great gun to shoot. However, for fun shooting, I would rather shoot my Bisleys any day. I had a Redhawk, but wound up trading it in for yet another .44 Bisley.

The .454 might just be overkill for most North American game. Now before anyone gets mad at me, I love the big boomers. I think they're a hoot, but a .44 mag will kill just about anything that 90% of us go after. Yeah I know that bigger is better when in griz country, but most of us never have to worry about that. You'll enjoy that .44 no matter which one you get.

I know Graybeard is a big Taurus fan, but I've sent mine back to the factory for the last time. Lifetime warranties are great, but it costs you about $25 each time you send it back, and that adds up. My 2¢ worth.

[1badmagnum]

I would be interested in the ruger 454 super redhawk,I just purchased a 480 ruger model for $395 from the local range.
It was there as a rental gun and was fired very few times because of the price of bullets.
If really interested in selling let me know,I love the 454!