Author Topic: Can you load pistol conicals nose down?  (Read 722 times)

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Offline curtism1234

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Can you load pistol conicals nose down?
« on: March 18, 2009, 12:10:40 PM »
I'm trying different loads to get my 1858 to shoot more towards the point of aim.

The balls shoot low and left

The conicals (a pain to line up in the cylinder) shoot high and left

Someone told me the next step would be to load the conicals nose down just to see what kind of groups it will throw and location (plus it would be easier to load as the nose would guide the bullet into the cylinder).

I just want to make sure this isn't a safety hazard before trying it

Offline Gatofeo

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Re: Can you load pistol conicals nose down?
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2009, 03:36:01 PM »
Yes, you may load conical bullets upside down.
However, you'll need to reduce the powder charge somewhat, to make room for the bullet being longer when seated.
Accuracy probably won't be much to brag about. I've loaded conicals backwards, hoping to get a quasi-wadcutter, but accuracy was worse than the regular conical.
The most accurate projectile remains a ball, in my experience, though the Lee conical bullet has proven accurate in my Uberti-made Remington .44 Army. The Lee bullet has a smaller diameter body at the base, so it slip-fits into the chamber and helps to straighten the ball before ramming.

But for consistent accuracy, use a ball of .454 or .457 inch. The oft-recommended ball of .451 inch has never been as accurate as the larger diameter balls in any of my cap and ball sixguns.

At what distance are you shooting? 25 yards?
Are you shooting offhand or from a benchrest with a solid pistol rest?
If you're shooting offhand, your "low and left" problem may be simply how you're holding the revolver; or you may have a flinch.

If, however, you've decided that the sights are at fault then you may wish to adjust them a bit.
If the front sight is dovetailed into the barrel, tap it very slightly to the left to bring the group to the right. Yes, that's right: the front sight goes the opposite direction of where you want the bullets to hit.
As for it shooting low, this indicates that the front sight is too high. This can be remedied by very lightly filing down the front sight.
But before you file the sight find an accurate load and adjust your sights to that one, accurate load.

Finding an accurate load begins with good components:
A. Black powder, in FFFG grade. Black powder substitutes are not as accurate.

B. Well-formed, round ball of .454 or .457 inch. "Round ball" is admittedly a redundancy but in this case it refers to the need to have well-formed balls. I favor Speer over Hornady; I've almost always found a few Hornady balls out-of-round in each box.

C. A well-greased felt wad between the ball and powder. I stress real felt, made of wool. Much of today's felt is polyester (plastic) and leaves melted plastic in the bore, affecting accuracy.

D. Use natural greases or oils, both for loading and for rust preventative in the bore. Olive oil works well as a rust-fighter after you've cleaned the bore.
The best lubricant I've found is the one named after me: Gatofeo No. 1 Lubricant. It's composed of canning paraffin, mutton tallow and real beeswax. A wool felt wad soaked in Gatofeo No. 1 lubricant outperforms wads soaked in other natural greases or oils.
Natural greases and oils include lard, vegetable oil, bacon grease, Crisco, Bore Butter, CVA Grease Patch (my personal favorite for commercial lubes), coconut oil and so on.
Petroleum-based greases and oils, when combined with black powder, leave a hard, tarry fouling that affects accuracy.

E. Use caps that fit properly. The cap should bottom out, with its priming compound resting on top of the nipple's cone. A cap too small won't bottom out and cause misfires. A cap too large will fall off, or worse, allow a jet of flame into an unfired chamber and you'll get multiple chambers going off.
I don't believe that multiple ignitions begin at the front of the cylinder. I believe they start at the rear, when flame enters through a nipple.
I don't believe that placing grease over the ball prevents multiple ignitions because I can't see how flame can get past a properly sized ball, rammed in the chamber and clinging tightly to the chamber walls.

Well, these are my opinions, based upon more than 35 years of shooting cap and ball sixguns and trying just about every propellant, cap, projectile(s), grease, oil and lubricant out there -- including spit

Some folks will tell you, "Gatofeo's so old, he used to grease his Colt Navy with brontosaurus drippings."
They're lying.
It was mastadon grease ... and it was an 1836 Paterson.  ;D
"A hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a .44."

Offline Flint

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Re: Can you load pistol conicals nose down?
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2009, 06:38:15 PM »
The conical is heavier than the round ball, and will shoot higher.  You might have the barrel rotated a bit to correct the windage.  The front sight should be moved opposite of the direction you want the bullet to strike, unlike the rear sight, which, if adjustable, would be moved the same direction you want the bullet to move.
Flint, SASS 976, NRA Life

Offline curtism1234

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Re: Can you load pistol conicals nose down?
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2009, 04:54:56 AM »
25 yards

I'm shooting off sandbags (barrel not touching) as well as offhand.
The gun shoots left with both (thought slightly more offhand).

Unfortunatly it's a Pietta so it does not have a dovetail. I know a guy who can dovetail it but I did want to see if I could find a combination I could work with first.

I knew the bullets would shoot high (which is better than low...and we're only talking 3-4 inches). I'm not expecting great accuracy from the nose first bullet but if it happens to move the impact right, I'd be pleased.

Probably wishfull thinking and I'll have it dovetailed.
Should of bought the Uburti from the start  ;)