British patents specs, firearms, ordnance, etc. pre-1859

[cannonmn]

I was having no luck finding early British ordnance patents to chase down the ID of one of my models, until a British friend sent me this link:

http://books.google.com/books?id=P1wWAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA27&dq=Ordnance+Report&lr=&as_brr=3&ei=LznESYCALZrczQSL96DcDQ

Now all I have to do is take the few likely candidates and track down the full specification including drawings.  Does anyone know how to do that for these early patents?

[Cannoneer]

Hi Adrian,

 I saw you were on line, so Im racing with this post. I was surfing the net for a good 45 min. trying to find anything on patents applied for or recieved by Gilbert Hadley with absolute zero success. Would you have any experience in hunting down information on the British Patent Office's web site?

[cannonmn]

Here's something on the guy, you prob already have it, I just wanted to see what popped up:

http://books.google.com/books?id=UDcNAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA73&lpg=PA73&dq=%22gilbert+hadley%22+patent&source=bl&ots=8MPzGBoKhx&sig=aSyMcyk4_LiYH0O1RhZ4wQDpUg8&hl=en&ei=zljISfDaD9zgnQfY1K3MAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result

[Cannoneer]

Cannonmn,

 No I hadn't seen this before, the author does makes an interesting observation about individuals making discoveries though.
I was trying to find information on Hadley's patents themselves, both applied for, and recieved, but I Had no luck.

[RocklockI]

Here's something on the guy, you prob already have it, I just wanted to see what popped up:

http://books.google.com/books?id=UDcNAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA73&lpg=PA73&dq=%22gilbert+hadley%22+patent&source=bl&ots=8MPzGBoKhx&sig=aSyMcyk4_LiYH0O1RhZ4wQDpUg8&hl=en&ei=zljISfDaD9zgnQfY1K3MAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result

Wow ! that is some serious pontifications ! Sort of reminds me of "On Walden Pond" by Thoreau

I'll have to finish it tomorrw !

[Cannoneer]

Basically, I'm just kicking this thread back to the top, in the hope that one of our British members might have some insights they could share about how to navigate any of the British Patent Office websites.

Cannonmn, I see you've been busy on the CMH Forum; I think many here would be interested in the American Revolutionary War, recovered & restored Warren, RI French gun thread, I know I was.

[cannonmn]

Cannonmn, I see you've been busy on the CMH Forum; I think many here would be interested in the American Revolutionary War, recovered & restored Warren, RI French gun thread, I know I was.

Glad you liked that stuff.  I'd encourage you to send 'em on over.  Since I'm a member it is actually hard for me to tell anyone who is not, how to get to that forum, since it recognizes my id and puts me right in. 

Could you give the boad members here a link they can use to get into the CMH forum, and any additional instructions needed, like if they have to push a button?  Sometimes I can post stuff multiple places and sometimes I just run out of time.  My primary responsibility now is to CMH for various reasons, that's the only reason I didn't post the cannon stuff here instead.

It would be great if a direct link to a particular thread in the CMH forum could be put here, but due to their membership filter, I don't think there is.  But I'd love to find out otherwise.

[cannonmn]

Here's a link a friend gave me that allows you to order British patents from the British Library.  In reading the text on one of the pages, it looks like the available database begins sometime in 1855, so I don't know what to do about earlier ones. 

I had a sudden inspiration to look through the Library of Congress catalog for periodic compilations of British patents.  The US Patent Office issued an annual report containing both specifications and small drawings, so maybe the Brits did something similar.  ??

http://www.bl.uk/reshelp/findhelprestype/patents/

[Double D]

What's CMH Forum? Cannon's and Martini Henry?

Have you tired this linkf or patent search?

http://ep.espacenet.com/?locale=en_EP

[cannonmn]

I'm pretty sure that Eur. patent site only goes back to 1953 for British patents; that's the oldest thing I could find, but it would be nice if I was wrong.

[Cannoneer]

What's CMH Forum? Cannon's and Martini Henry?

Have you tired this linkf or patent search?

http://ep.espacenet.com/?locale=en_EP

The Company of Military Historians Forum.
The European Patent Office is one of the sites I tried, I also couldn't access any patents from the 19th century.

http://gs19.inmotionhosting.com/~milita8/cmh/member/member.cgi/read/6838

[Cannoneer]

The way I get to the "The Company of Military Historians" forum is thus: Add their home page to your favorites list (bookmark), <> http://military-historians.org/ <>, blue menu column - click on "The Forums", scroll to bottom of page, click on "CMH Forum", and you're there.

[A.Roads]

Hi Boom J,  Sorry but I have only just seen your request. Unfortunately I have no experience with English Patent searches so I cannot offer any guidance. You could try asking on www.mlagb.co.uk its a small-arms forum but well attended to & I think you will get an answer from a researcher there if you have not already had success. Regards, Adrian.

[Cannoneer]

Thanks Adrian, I'll post a query on the MLAGB forum.

[Double D]

The guy you want to look for on www.mlagb.co.uk is MartiniBelgian.  I know he does a bunch of patent research and should know the in's and outs.  Here is his website. http://users.telenet.be/Gert.Claes1/index.html  Gert is very helpful and should be able to answer your questions.

Thanks Adrian for bringing the www.mlagb.co.uk website up, I would have not thought Gert with out that cue.

[Cannoneer]

Bill Curtis, a knowledgeable member of the "Muzzle Loaders Association of Great Britain" forum, gave this reply to a question that I recently posed there.


There were a number of Hadleys but their relationships are not certain.  Henry is the best known and was a maker of the finest quality small arms.   He may or may not have been a brother of Gilbert who was working in Birmingham 1712-17, and then became a gunmaker in the Furbishers’ Department at the Tower of London.  Charles was appointed as Ordnance Armourer at Boston in 1755 and New York 1757-72 (died 1773).
Turning now to Gilbert, his position with the Ordnance would have given him some impetus to artillery development but his tap action principle was not an especially new idea and was already in use in small arms (Lorenzoni for example).  In those days it was necessary to provide a made up test piece and ideas alone (however wacky) could be patented.  The Patent Office Records are replete with aborted designs that never saw the light of day.  No example of an artillery piece following Hadley’s Patent has ever been noted and we can be reasonably sure that, if anything had been produced, it would have been no more than a small scale working model.

[Cannoneer]

Bill Curtis emended his original reply to my question, with this post:

" In those days it was necessary to provide a made up test piece "

My apologies for this which should read " In those days it was NOT necessary to provide a made up test piece ".