Cannon Hardware Blackening

[DoktorD]

So as I continue to plan out the carriage for my new project, I've been looking into ways to blacken the carriage hardware...

I've seen gun bluing, black oxide, parkerizing, and painting...

What have you guys done with things like bolts and nuts etc. where the threads cant be painted?

I see Double D said in a previous post that he uses the Rustoleum BBQ paint. Does that hold up well?

I was considering trying Birchwood Casey's Presto Black cold blackening product. It supposedly works well and seems like a better alternative to something like a selenium dioxide solution. It sounds like a blackening immersion would work well on chain and parts that could be blackened while apart and put back together.

Just wondering what you guys have done in the past 

[Double D]

This picture was taken in 2004, twenty years after the gun was originally painted with Rustoleum BBQ paint.  In the next couple of weeks it will be refurbished and get its second paint job. I did paint the barrel with a primer coat then sprayed the black.



The Carriage will finally get its paint job.  Some other little detailing will also take place.

The real ones were painted why not these ones? 

When I built this gun I cut down the threaded ends so they were flush and not exposed, then painted with enamel over the ends.  This help locked the nuts.  Some hardware was Rustoleum sprayed and some painted with enamel.

Paint is more protective than most of the chemicals.

[gary michie]

Hi
I use  Rustoleum for all my paint we need to use oil paint and ace hardware will tint it so I can get my green and all. I'm look ing for real old time blueing any one knows how to do that?

[dan610324]

if you heat your parts to approximately 400 degrees celsius and then drop them in linseed oil .
they will be totaly black , thats an several hundred year old way to protect iron from rust .
maybe even older , I dont know exactly

[DoktorD]

if you heat your parts to approximately 400 degrees celsius and then drop them in linseed oil .
they will be totaly black , thats an several hundred year old way to protect iron from rust .
maybe even older , I dont know exactly

Now thats something that may be worth testing out to see the results! I'll haveta remember that one.

I know rustoleum also makes another product... Its a pseudo-epoxy spray paint for appliances, I might haveta get a couple samples of each n test em out to see how things go 

[Cat Whisperer]

Of my couple of dozen mortars, I've bright chromed one and industrial hard-chromed another.

You might want to black chrome one.  You might have just won the lottery to afford it too.

[BoomLover]

Not to sound too dumb, but, what is the conversion from `C to `F? 400`C = ?`F.. Thanks, BoomLover

[DoktorD]

Not to sound too dumb, but, what is the conversion from `C to `F? 400`C = ?`F.. Thanks, BoomLover

To go from C to F, you multiply by 9/5 and add 32, so 400 C would be 752  F...

And to go  from F to C, you subtract 32 and multiply by 5/9 

if you heat your parts to approximately 400 degrees celsius and then drop them in linseed oil

mmm just one question... the autoignition temp of linseed oil is 342 C.. so should I be expecting a flaming bucket of linseed oil when I drop the 400 C peice of metal in? if thats the case I guess I should probably use a metal bucket 

[Double D]

400C is 752C. 

There is a nifty little free ware program that I first learned about it right here on this board from Cat Whisperer.  I have used it for several years.  It's one of the few shortcuts I keep on my  desktop. 

The program is called convert and lets you convert all sorts measurements.  Here's the link. http://joshmadison.com/article/convert-for-windows if you want to take a look.

[Victor3]

 I just did some...



 These had plating/paint on them. I blasted that off, put them in boiling water to clean, and used Brownells Oxpho-Blue on them. I've used this method many times with good results. Blasting seems to help the blueing take better.

 I was gonna Parkerize them, but didn't want to fire up the solution for a few small pieces.

[DoktorD]

very nice... to get the black color, did you rub the oxpho-blue or submerse them and let them sit?

[Victor3]

 I used the cream stuff. Rubbed it on good all over and let it sit for a few minutes, removed it under running water with a toothbrush, dried, buffed with steel wool and oiled.

 It helps if the parts are warm when you apply the stuff. Other than Oxpho-Blue, I've had very good results (maybe even better than Oxpho) with Birchwood-Casey Super Blue. Gives a very dark, almost black color.

[DoktorD]

I've had very good results (maybe even better than Oxpho) with Birchwood-Casey Super Blue. Gives a very dark, almost black color.

Thats what I've heard from a couple sources. I know that the Birchwood-Casey products I've used in the past work very well, a very reliable brand.

[gary michie]

Hi again 
I'm still looking for bluing that is dark blue not black.any help?

[subdjoe]

mmm just one question... the autoignition temp of linseed oil is 342 C.. so should I be expecting a flaming bucket of linseed oil when I drop the 400 C peice of metal in? if thats the case I guess I should probably use a metal bucket 

Oh, come on!  Man up and use a canvas bucket!

[Double D]

I have used the Birchwood Casey stuff also as well as the Oxpho from Brownells.  The B/C stuff worked but was expensive and didn't have much of a shelf life.   The Brownells stuff was less exspensive-not cheap-an I never had shelf life issues with it.  The B/C could be found locally in a pinch, Brownells was mail order stuff.  Bead blast  or a good polish and degrease got rid of the oxidation and made the chemicals work better.  Setting the metal to be finished out in the sun or next to heater to warm it up first also seemed make either work better.

[DoktorD]

mmm just one question... the autoignition temp of linseed oil is 342 C.. so should I be expecting a flaming bucket of linseed oil when I drop the 400 C peice of metal in? if thats the case I guess I should probably use a metal bucket 

Oh, come on!  Man up and use a canvas bucket!

now THAT would be something to behold 

whether or not I decide touse that method, I think its worth the little experiment to see how it turns out. Kinda interesting to see just how well an old technique like that works compared to some modern methods. I'll just haveta use a metal bucket and lid. Sorry, but i'll pass on canvas and plastic 

[GGaskill]

I'm still looking for bluing that is dark blue not black.any help?

If you can find one of the older NRA Gunsmithing Handbooks, there is a formula in it using mercury salts that gives a blue color to the finished product.  The major gunmakers used some kind of process in the '20's that produced a blue color but I have never seen any details of it, only comments that it was not suitable for home use.

If you can't find the old Handbook, I will find my copy and scan the article for you.

[subdjoe]

I'm still looking for bluing that is dark blue not black.any help?

If you can find one of the older NRA Gunsmithing Handbooks, there is a formula in it using mercury salts that gives a blue color to the finished product.  The major gunmakers used some kind of process in the '20's that produced a blue color but I have never seen any details of it, only comments that it was not suitable for home use.

If you can't find the old Handbook, I will find my copy and scan the article for you.

]
That brings to mind - check the Dixie Gun Works catalog, they used to have stuff like that.  Or find a book called Henlys Fourmulas, all kinds of interesting things.  From the early 1900s I think, but there was a reprint of it in the 80s. 
And maybe checkehere for more ideas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluing_(steel)

[Victor3]

 The B/C stuff worked but was expensive and didn't have much of a shelf life.  

 I recently got a glass bottle of B/C blue from my Wife's Grandfather that's at least 20 years old that works fine. A bottle of B/C Super Blue I've had for at least 5 years is still good too.

 You may have contaminated yours by dipping the same cloth you'd just used on the gun back in the bottle.

[dan610324]

the linseed oil will just rise very little in temperatur and will not start burning , ok that also depend on how much oil and weight on hot items .
you can have some small flames where you drop the hot iron in it .
could be handy to have a lid if something would happened , but so far it havent done for me .
this will burn the oil into the microscopic pores of the iron and protect good against rust .
I always sandblast the surface first with an extremely fine glass sand

[Double D]

 The B/C stuff worked but was expensive and didn't have much of a shelf life.  

 You may have contaminated yours by dipping the same cloth you'd just used on the gun back in the bottle.

I was broke of that nasty habit very early in my gunsmithing career.  Quickest way to ruin any chemical...especially bad on Hoppes number nine. No I kept those bottles around to touch up customers guns and they seemed to get weaker as they were used. Might be the difference between something that used several times a day, every day and something used once in a while.


Victor, I didn't edit your post...instead hitting quote I hit modify and save.....so it says I editted. Sorry.

[Cat Whisperer]

One of the first things taught in Chem 101 is that the reagent comes out of the bottle and NEVER put back into the bottle.

[Victor3]

 The B/C stuff worked but was expensive and didn't have much of a shelf life.  

 You may have contaminated yours by dipping the same cloth you'd just used on the gun back in the bottle.

 Might be the difference between something that used several times a day, every day and something used once in a while.

 That's possible. Maybe if the bottle is open longer it goes bad faster.

 I killed a bottle using cut up T-shirts that had some kind of alkaline stuff on them once; I noticed that the cloth was 'fizzing' after I dipped it in the bottle. I assume it was from some left over detergent.

[Don Krag]

Hi
I use  Rustoleum for all my paint we need to use oil paint and ace hardware will tint it so I can get my green and all. I'm look ing for real old time blueing any one knows how to do that?

There's lots of formulas and commercial solutions available for "hot bluing". These are all based on a supersaturated solution of sodium hydroxide with various amounts of potassium nitrate and a couple other ingredients. You basically mix it so it's the consitency of a slushie, heat to ~370-390*F depending on the mix. Adjust water content until it boils at the correct temp. Dip part until desired color is reached. Depending what your alloy is and what your solution is, you get anywhere from blue-black to dark violet.

This may sound easy, but it's not. There's much more to it than what I briefly listed above. Boiling caustic soda is not something beginers should just "mess around" with.

On some of our armour projects, we use WD-40 and heat. Pretty much the same idea as the linseed oil mentioned previously. You heat the piece hot enough to char the oil, but not hot enough to cause the char to flake off. 500-700*F sounds like a good range. We heat the armour parts to "grey" after being polished, which is probably around 600*F and spray on the WD-40. A billowing smokey mess, but a pretty cool blue-black finish.

You could always just heat the parts up to about 1100-1300*F and let air cool. Don't go over 1500*F or the scale you just formed will flake off as it cools.

[gary michie]

Hi:
I wish to thank Don Krag for his information I have been asking this question at many forums and been given the cold shoulder or have the subject change on me,So thank you again.If you have a idea of porportions even a guess I would gratefull.

[GGaskill]

Here are several links from Practical Machinist where this subject comes up at least once a year.

Black oxide 1

And one from homemachinist

The other stuff I was looking for on PM was in the old board software.  I need to talk to Don to see if it is still available.

[gary michie]

Hi:
GGaskill
   This is wonderfull stuff ,thank you, the pics on the websites look like the blue I am looking for especially the auto that is a little two toned again
Thank You

[Don Krag]

You can buy commercial "hot bluing salts" from places like Brownell's. Just do a web search for those tems and you'll find lots of recipes.

[Rickk]

Black "Appliance Epoxy" spraypaint is pretty good, Urethane POR-15 system is 10X better than the epoxy. Epoxy paint dries hard and can be chipped. Urethane base POR-15 stay a tad on the flexible side and won't chip. They made bowling balls out of urethane for a reason.

Neither can be applied to threads before assembly, as they will take up too much of the clearance and make assembly impossible.

Also, on thru bolts/rods, even though you can't paint the threads, make sure you paint the hidden part of the rod. I would do this even if I decided to use some sort of chemical finish instead of paint. I put my mortar together, then took out the black oxide coated through rods a year later when I was touching up the paint on the wooden base. Even though it was together only a year, there was a considerable amount of rust on the rods. It was thick enough that I had a hard time getting the rods out. I cleaned them up, painted them with epoxy spraypaint, and also sealed the inside of the holes in the wooden base with Spar Varnish.

Rick