Author Topic: Are there any new primers being made????? (Read 6468 times)

michaelt454 · « **Reply #30 on:** March 24, 2009, 09:50:36 AM »

Liberals "FEEL" Conservatives THINK"!!!!

ButlerFord45 · « **Reply #31 on:** March 25, 2009, 12:33:03 AM »

Quote

feel
v.tr.
5.
a. To be persuaded of (something) on the basis of intuition or other indefinite grounds: I feel that what the informant says may well be true.
b. To believe; think: She felt his answer to be evasive.

Even our government figured how to balance the supply and demand for potable water 6 months after Katrina.
Some Liberals may think, some Conservatives may feel but for fact, both persuasions have a tendency to spout off with criticisms and demeanments when they can parrot some small something they may have heard from someone who presents themselves as knowing, rather than enjoy a conversation, a debate or just be among like minded to vent frustrations.

Thank you

BF

michaelt454 · « **Reply #32 on:** March 25, 2009, 03:04:59 AM »

Every complaint about big corporation's greed is an invitation for government intervention. All I say is be careful. I meant that conservatives think logically instead of emotionally.

Michael T.

skarke · « **Reply #33 on:** March 25, 2009, 03:48:49 AM »

"Hoarding" as used here to describe those of us stocking up on supplies might not be the accurate verb. Rather, hedging, at least in my case, more accurately describes my purchasing behavior. I am hedging against what I envision the future to be. My goal is to stock a near lifetime of supplies while they are still available. I make no apologies. As I buy my primers and powder, I am also beginning to hedge my investments against what I anticipate will be a coming phase of hyperinflation resulting from moneteristic policies of the US government (not to digress from our topic).

Bet on what you believe will provide best for you and your family in the future. That, if you don't believe the rhetoric of "it'll never happen here", includes stocking shooting supplies.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #34 on:** March 25, 2009, 04:48:25 AM »

don't confuse sound business pratices with greed .

MZ5 · « **Reply #35 on:** March 25, 2009, 05:26:59 AM »

Quote from: michaelt454 on March 24, 2009, 09:34:16 AM

when you double or triple the price in response to demand, it helps to insure that the precious resources are allocated efficiently

Only when there is a market, which is defined as a relatively large number of buyers and sellers. Absent a market (and right now there isn't a market for these items since essentially all but one or two sellers have none at any given time), it's very nearly the most inefficient method of asset allocation there is.

As far as hedging goes, I understand that concept. Trouble is, hoarders aren't hedging. A hedge is a 'bet,' if you will, which represents a small percentage of the entity's 'investment.' When all your 'bet' is put into the 'hedge,' it isn't a hedge.

And if, by some remote chance, those who foresee a 'war' are correct, having extremely large stockpiles of ammunition and/or components in the hands of a relatively few people is the absolute worst way to mount a defensive campaign.

So I feel compelled to repeat myself: Hoarders are a menace to everyone, not only themselves.

michaelt454 · « **Reply #36 on:** March 25, 2009, 05:31:52 AM »

Call it what you want sharke semantics are semantics, you were born with the God-given right to hoard if you want, more power to you, I've been stocking up as well, because we just don't know what the future holds. If I was in a better financial position to buy a lifetime of supplies I would certainly be doing so. Sound business practices are often confused with greed in times like these. you are correct shootall.

michaelt454 · « **Reply #37 on:** March 25, 2009, 05:41:05 AM »

All I'm trying to say is not everything is a conspiracy, there aren't evil big corporations waiting around every corner to take advantage of the very people that they have to make their livings off of after this whole thing blows over (IF). Its not like CCI or any other manufacturer has a monopoly.
Michael T.

teddy12b · « **Reply #38 on:** March 25, 2009, 05:42:37 AM »

I was in a small mom & pops gun store yesterday. They had PMC 223 ammo on the shelf for $8.5 a box and plenty of it. They also had Bushmaster AR-15 30 round mags for $30 a piece. In both cases I was surprised that they even had either of the items. I looked for H335, but didn't have any luck at all. They had a couple Colt AR's for close to $2000 brand new, and I was the most shocked to see those. The guys at the counter said the store wasn't making any money because they couldn't get any products in to sell. They were working with every distributer they knew of, but they couldn't make money on products they can't get in stock to sell. I didn't feel too bad for him though because in most cases the day the products show up they sell shortly after.

I understand the supply and demand aspect of it all and it's just the way it is. I also wonder what will cause all this buying to slow down or stop. The firearms & ammo frenzy is like any other bubble that will eventually pop and all the guys who bought a thousand 223 rounds for the steal of $500 will be left with overly priced ammo on the shelves. It comes down to what's it all worth to you. I know I pay too much for some stuff these days, but there is a value to just having it on the shelf.

chucky52 · « **Reply #39 on:** March 25, 2009, 10:34:00 AM »

This bubble has actually popped before and I know people who bought primers as a commodity @ $30/1000 after the bubble, I purchased primers for $12/1000 and that's less than half price. Rather than panic buying, I would rather see a concerted effort confronting our politicians. Such as the April 1 protest of sending a tea bag to the White house because April 15 is the anniversary of the Boston Tea Party. Remind the politicians who they work for, support the NRA and State Firearms Organizations... Organized support of our rights is the solution to our long term problems.

markp · « **Reply #40 on:** March 25, 2009, 10:50:08 AM »

We have an anti gun administration ( anti constitution really ) and with the house and senate overwelmingly like minded dems I would have to say anyone not stocking up when possible is not paying attention.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #41 on:** March 25, 2009, 11:05:37 AM »

They aren't anti Consitution , they want to change it . We need to see that and call it that . we need to point it out every chance we get . All Americans need to realize that to change it will mean loss of freedom .Point out that what people have they got under the Consitution in place now , what are they willing to loose to change ?

skarke · « **Reply #42 on:** March 25, 2009, 06:28:10 PM »

Guys, let's not get crazy here, and this'll be my last post on the subject. Regarding the definition of "hedge", the one I am using is "An investment position taken in order to protect oneself from the risk of an unfavorable price move in an asset (security)". Few predict war. I just want to be able to enjoy the shooting sports without having to pay exorbitant prices, or be subjected to a colonoscopy every time I want to purchase a reloading component. I am "betting" that the price and regulation of these types of products will increase, and therefore am positioning against an unfavorable move in the market.

I am not "leveraging" my investment. These are paid for assets (the supplies). I will use them, I'm not just taking products off of the store shelves to hide for the next millennium.

It is interesting that during my club's last bowling pin shoot that there was much grumbling and gnashing of teeth over the availability of primers. However, I just smiled and shot.

Bart Solo · « **Reply #43 on:** March 26, 2009, 02:52:00 AM »

This particular bubble will burst when people run out of money to buy shooting components and ammunition. I am predicting about mid-April. Prices will drop back down about mid-June.

I have been reading that while Holder and some others in the administration might be anti-gun, there are a significant number of pro-gun Democrats in Congress--including a Congressman down the road from me. When they combine with the Republicans there simply aren't enough votes in Congress to pass any meaningful anti-gun measure. We need to be aware. We don't need panic. For too long the gun community has hitched its wagon entirely to Republicans. We would have been better to hedge our bets by better supporting blue dog Democrats at the same time. That is a mistake the gun community leadership needs to address.

By the way I am mad as hell at all the anti-American drivel I have been reading. The Democrats won fair and square. If you don't like them you organize for the election in 2 years.

ButlerFord45 · « **Reply #44 on:** March 26, 2009, 04:14:07 AM »

Quote from: Bart Solo on March 26, 2009, 02:52:00 AM

By the way I am mad as hell at all the anti-American drivel I have been reading. The Democrats won fair and square. If you don't like them you organize for the election in 2 years.

Bart, I tent to agree with your assessment of the political position firearms are in at the moment. Specially after Polosi's comments a couple of months ago but you can bet this is a short lived situation. They will be after them sooner or later.

However with your last comment, I must take exception!! Anti-American to voice your opinions and disagreements (as well as agreements) of the elected?

We must not be from the same America, in mine it is a responsibility.

Do I like the situation now? No, I don't.

Did I do my part to avoid this? As much as I could, I campaigned, contributed, urged to vote, arranged transportation for voters and am a member of the County Election Commission.

Am I working toward May 2010? Yes.

After Fred Thompson's lackadaisical announcement of his candidacy, there was no other way this election could have gone. You had an articulate Black man promising 40 acres and a mule and with our current demographics, he couldn't lose.

Let me make one thing perfectly clear: I would like for Obama to be the best president this country has ever had!! I just hold no hope of that happening.

Now, if I occasionally let a personal frustration or fear slip into the conversation, I apologize now.

BF

teddy12b · « **Reply #45 on:** March 26, 2009, 04:54:49 AM »

I think what Bart was getting is all the whining and moaning by people whose candidate didn't win is getting old. I would certainly agree with that because I just got done with 8 years of listening to every demacrat whine like a baby because their guy didn't win and bad mouth everything the president tried to do because he wasn't a demacrat. Now the times have turned and there's plenty of republicans whining and moaning about everything the same way the demacrats did. I wish Obama the best of luck and I genuinely hope what he's doing will work, but I didn't vote for him.

I don't have much tolerance for whining and complaining about things beyond our control. The majority (of voters) rules in this country, and they spoke loud and clear. The hard reality is, most people don't give a darn about another gun ban (obviously excluding everyone on this website). The guys that do care about another ban coming already have their rifles in the cabinet and are buying the ammo they want or think they need.

Bart Solo · « **Reply #46 on:** March 26, 2009, 06:15:05 AM »

I have lived long enough to see the parties change several times. I have yet to see the gun rights of Americans irretrievably broken. I guess some would argue the Clinton assault rifle ban but you have to admit that ban was lifted. That said I understand why a lot of big city Dems are interested in some kind of gun control. Their police chiefs, police unions, and rank and file constituents all demand that they do more to stop gun violence. All you have to do is watch the news on any big city channel and you realize they have a big problem. Just because some big city Dems support gun control demanded by their constituents doesn't make them unAmerican or anti-constitutional or anything other than wrong. They have a real problem and they are trying to deal with it.

All name calling, all the time doesn't get it done for gun rights advocates. It is our job to come up with something more than just saying "NO." We have to find ways to reduce big city gun violence. Locking people up seems to help, but it is horribly expensive.

I happen to think that gun violence is best stopped by parents spending time with their kids so they don't join gangs. I also think parents and the rest of us should spend time training young people not to misuse firearms. I also believe every kid needs to know that he or she has a future in the mainstream society if he or she works hard and plays by the rules. All of that requires changes in the culture beyond the reach of the average big city politician. I think one good way to reduce gun violence might be to make sure every kid growing up is taught firearms safety. I would love to see shooting sports installed in every high school in the country.

For you history buffs--what was the immediate cause of the gunfight at the OK Corral? Answer: the Earps were enforcing a gun ban passed by the town of Tomestone. We can't claim gun bans are anything new in America. They go back a long time. Last year the Supreme Court correctly ruled that a blanket ban is unconstitutional. We didn't celebrate that really important decision. Instead we heard moans and groans because the court also held that reasonable restrictions are legal. Hell, there are legal restrictions on every other constitutional right. That has been the law since the beginning of the constitution, but if you want to restrict a constitutional right, you have to go above and beyond and find a compelling reason for a restriction. "You can't yell fire in a crowded theater" is a perfectly constitutional limit on the first amendment. What makes the 2nd Amendment more important than the first?

I am tired of the politics of confrontation. I refuse to support politicians who don't feel the need to propose rational solutions. I want to solve problems. Don't you? Sorry for the rant, and I might be banned for these thoughts. At the very least Billy will call me a liberal again, but that's OK, one of my liberal friends called me a conservative the other day for sharing the same thoughts. I needed to tell you how I feel.

ButlerFord45 · « **Reply #47 on:** March 26, 2009, 06:19:26 AM »

Bart, best rant I've read in a while! If it gets you banned, I'll go with you.

chucky52 · « **Reply #48 on:** March 26, 2009, 07:50:20 AM »

If the big city liberals don't like guns, they can carry a cop. Mail a teabag to the Whitehouse on April 1. Join the NRA (not a perfect organization; but, the only one) and join your state organization.

Dave in WV · « **Reply #49 on:** March 26, 2009, 08:14:03 AM »

The question was raised about .45 LC ammo. If you were running 24/7 due to demand for your product, would you make what is in demand or the stuff that's a seasonal run? It's a disapointment to the .45LC shooters but the way it is.

Gun grabbing laws and politicians? If they say turn them in , just say no or better ignor it. They can't arrest us all.

beerbelly · « **Reply #50 on:** March 26, 2009, 04:34:16 PM »

After reading all these democrats on this topic , I am more afraid than ever. I just heard a bunch of democrat gun owners making excuses for the dems wanting to take out guns!
Beerbelly

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #51 on:** March 26, 2009, 08:35:35 PM »

I am confused - Is this "Round the 'Ole Pot Bellied Stove" or are we talking about scarce primers?

ButlerFord45 · « **Reply #52 on:** March 27, 2009, 01:51:18 AM »

Quote from: beerbelly on March 26, 2009, 04:34:16 PM

After reading all these democrats on this topic , I am more afraid than ever. I just heard a bunch of democrat gun owners making excuses for the dems wanting to take out guns!
Beerbelly

What?

Quote from: LaOtto222 on March 26, 2009, 08:35:35 PM

I am confused - Is this "Round the 'Ole Pot Bellied Stove" or are we talking about scarce primers?

No stoves here. Everyone knows primers are scarce but why? Is it simply hoarding? Is there more involved? How long will the shortage last? Will it get worse before it gets better? Will it get better? Did it make you feel better to talk about it? If not, did it move you to inquire more? If you did, are you going to keep the information to yourself or are you going to share it?

BF

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #53 on:** March 27, 2009, 12:40:34 PM »

ButlerFord45 - I do not know any more that the rest of the folks here. My gut feeling is - people are buying them up as fast as they become available - hoarding. Unsubstantiated reports are the primers are being made as fast as possible and the companies are looking at ways to expand production. But that takes time. You have to expand buildings, order equipment, procure material. You are talking several months at best. Since the shortage only really began last fall, the primer manufactures have not had time to ramp up yet to keep up with demand. But on the other hand; are they really upping production, knowing that once everyone has had their hoard bought and stored, the demand will fall off? Then have equipment and expanded buildings setting idle.

It seemed to me that this thread got off subject and there was more political talking going on that about primers - thus the "Round the 'Ole Pot Bellied Stove". In other words it was my plea to get back on subject - I was not in any way putting any one down about their political views - I just thought it would be more appropriate in another section. Peace

ButlerFord45 · « **Reply #54 on:** March 27, 2009, 02:19:23 PM »

Quote from: LaOtto222 on March 27, 2009, 12:40:34 PM

It seemed to me that this thread got off subject and there was more political talking going on that about primers - thus the "Round the 'Ole Pot Bellied Stove". In other words it was my plea to get back on subject - I was not in any way putting any one down about their political views - I just thought it would be more appropriate in another section. Peace

Not taken as such. Folks just seemed to get on a roll and with just a little nudge would come back and expound on their ideas.

Personally, I don't think they are expanding anything. I believe them to be pretty much going about "business as usual" for the very reasons you mention..more machinery, floor space, personel and ordering extra materials for a situation they know is going to end isn't good business. Besides, the longer this lasts the better for the component makers and I think they are well aware of that.

skarke · « **Reply #55 on:** March 27, 2009, 05:31:51 PM »

All I can say is, I'm sure happy that I need not worry about primers throughout this production, panic, political, or whatever other cause exists. As my shooting brethren continue to banter about the theoretical reasons for shortage, I'll be knocking down pins and plates.

Someone shooting 1000 rounds per month can purchase a year's worth, delivered tax title and license, for about $300. While not pocket change, it is certainly better than the alternative (sitting at home on the weekends staring at the empty holes in the bottom of their brass).

I hope that the eternal optimists among us are correct, and that our current shortage is just manufacturers being behind. But, manufacturing primers is VERY low tech. The russians do it as well, or better, than our own home brewed stuff.

The fact is that we are likely all partially correct, and that this is a multi-faceted problem that includes, at least in part, all of our theoretical causes.

Bottom line and for whatever the reason, I plan to keep buying.

troy_mclure · « **Reply #56 on:** March 27, 2009, 11:07:48 PM »

is it possible to get foreign primers?

all i ever see listed are cci, federal, remington, winchester, and wolf(yes, i know wolf is russian, but its labeled for usa).
or is there some kinda law or something?

woodchuckssuck · « **Reply #57 on:** March 28, 2009, 05:38:57 AM »

Panic buying and hoarding, plain and simple. I have tons of .22lr, but all was bought back when all ammo was readily available. Same with .45acp components...bought them when there was no shortage at all. Now I wanna get into 9mm loading, cant hardly find dies even

Im about to make a trip (5 miles) to the local shop and see if he has anything at all, he bought out a lot of an old shop last year when its owner passed away, and his kids decided they didn't want the shop to be bought out as a whole (stupid?) Lots of guns and some reloading stuff...

This is getting CRAZY. People who shoot 100 rounds a month: You do not need to have 30k primers on hand. Just like anyone who was driving (or still is) a large SUV or truck back and forth to work and had no need for more than a 4cyl. I guess I'm just gonna buy what I can when I find it from now on, so that when I go to the range next week or the week after, etc, I can actually shoot the guns I own...

Darrell Davis · « **Reply #58 on:** March 28, 2009, 06:04:01 AM »

Hoarders - getting bad rap or?

Now in some cases, maybe hoarders are getting a bad and deserved rap on the back of the hand, but then in most (??) cases maybe more then they deserve.

I have for years, done with my reloading components as I do with my food in the pantry.

I have bought to level with which I feel OK and then as I use a 1000 and break into a new 1000 primers, or open that new jar of Adams peanut butter, it goes onto the list for a resupply.

An unopened thousand of each of the type of primers I use is, for me, considered to be a minimum supply level to maintain.

In times of uncertain situations such as those we presently face, the wise man will see that his pantry is well stocked. Both of them!

Now if shooters and/or reloaders do not as a matter of course keep a back log of components on hand, that is, in this Ol'Coot opinion their stupidity.

If for no other reason then consistancy, we should always buy in the larger quanities.

If as a shooter/reloader, you can get buy with ALWAYS buying your powders, one - 1lb. can at a time and your primers in lots of 100count boxes, then maybe? you would be just as well off buying the once a year box of 20 rounds from the local sporting goods store, for you surely will have no consistancy in your reloads.

However, many if not most of the reloaders shoot in larger quanities then the casual shooter and therefor also need to stock their components in larger quanities.

I like to shoot. I like to reload. And as an "Ol'Coot", clearly in the last third of my life span, I wish to continue to shoot and reload as much as I have in the past and do so for as long as possible.

If some think that my having and continuing to have a few thousand primers and a few jugs of powder on hand is out of reason, that is their problem and not mine.

I can hunt and shoot within minutes walk or 4wheeler ride of my home. I live where I live for that reason and for the separation from the bleeding heart liberals it provides.

It is no less reasonable and wise for me to keep my pantry well stocked then it is to keep the shelves in the reloading room in the same condition.

Keep em coming!

CDOC

OR-E-Gun Bill · « **Reply #59 on:** March 28, 2009, 06:39:07 AM »

On this hoarding business, I can't help but think of the old Aesop's Fables:

The Ant and the Grasshopper

In a field one summer's day a Grasshopper was hopping about, chirping and singing to its heart's content. An Ant passed by, bearing along with great toil an ear of corn he was taking to the nest.
"Why not come and chat with me," said the Grasshopper, "instead of toiling and moiling in that way?"
"I am helping to lay up food for the winter," said the Ant, "and recommend you to do the same."
"Why bother about winter?" said the Grasshopper; we have got plenty of food at present." But the Ant went on its way and continued its toil.
When the winter came the Grasshopper found itself dying of hunger, while it saw the ants distributing, every day, corn and grain from the stores they had collected in the summer.
Then the Grasshopper knew...
It is best to prepare for the days of necessity.

Since the mid 80's, when government began dictating stricter gun laws, I have continually maintained an 8 year supply of ammo/reloading supplies. Once a year, I go over my existing inventory and adjust the supply, adding new items as I add new firearms and reloading needs. Some might call this hoarding. I call it being prepared for the days of necessity.

I may have to expand my 8 year plan to 12 years, if we last that long.

Bill