Mostly sporterized 1916 Model 96 with .308 Win. barrel - what is it- PICS!

[jcn59]

Sharp crest with sharp printing but little (hammer?) dings all over receiver.  Not forging marks.  What are the "dings"?  I think I recall someone asking a similar question before but I don't remember the answer.

Also, the barrel seems to have come from a different (American?) military rifle.  Note stampings on muzzle end.  Rough-turned barrel, 8-44 stamping by muzzle,  "Bomb" (?) stamping.  Smoothest, brightest bore I've ever seen.

Glass bedded into an old Fagen stock.   A gun show "find".   Anyone know anything about the dinged up receiver or the barrel?       THANKS!



 

[Spanky]

Looks like someone took a grinder to the receiver and then restamped it.
One of my Mosin's looked like that after the "refurb"



Spanky

[Mikey]

jcn59:  looks like someone rebarrelled a 96 Swedish Mauser action.  If the barrel stamp 8-44 is accurately indicative of the barrel's age and the bore is a 308 and the flaming bomb stamp is also accurate, then I     think someone took a mil-surp 30-06 barrel, made it into a 308 and threaded it in.  The 7.62x51 Nato round was not adopted by the military until 1954 although Winchester introduced it in 1952. 

The Carl Gustav Royal Arsenal made the Model 96 Mauser and Husquavarna made the Model 38, both Model 96 actions.  Both actions were chambered for the 6.5x55mm Swedish Mauser and are strong  enough to handle the 308.  Model 96 Mausers have been found in 8mm Mauser and if they handle the 8 they will handle the 308. 

How so ever, I would have a good gunsmith check that baby over before I go anywhere near it with live ammo.  If it is OK to shoot then have a ball.  HTH.

[John Traveler]

I agree with Mikey.  That looks like a surplus M1903 Springfield barrel in .30-06 with the breech turned down, shortened, and rechambered for .308 Winchester.

[jcn59]

Thanks for your help. 

I'm hoping it shoots well enough.  Who ever put it together could have done a nicer job of of finishing the barrel exterior, but overall I'm happy with it.  It's glass bedded, has a nice commercial front ramp, a steel Lyman receiver sight, "forged" bolt handle and the headspace looks about right.  The trigger is reworked military but it breaks nicely with a reasonably light pull.  I'll check the bolt for cracks with a glass next.

I don't have much in it.  I doubt I could buy a Ruger 10-22 for what I paid.

So, what are all the little "dents" in the receiver?  I suppose someone could have ground off the crest & restamped it, but I'm not aware of the Carl Gustav Royal Arsenal ever doing a sloppy refurbish like this to any of their model 96s.  But who else would have the engraving stamps but the arsenal?  Nonetheless, it's a pretty good explanation.

[Mikey]

The dents could have come from long term storage, but not by the Swedes - they took care of thier rifles.  I do not doubt those dents either came from transporting them or from the guy/person/individual who removed the old barrel and installed the new one.  Just a guess...................

[bja105]

I'm no gunsmith, but...
The 1896 Swedish action is built for low pressure 6.5x55.  The 308 Winchester is a high pressure round.  I would expect lug setback if fired, eventually.
I don't know anything about the dents.

[jcn59]

I shot it today.  Mechanically, it's fine. 

At 50 yards it was one of those deals where you center the bead on the piece of paper & pray.  The bead completely covers the "bullseye" on the target.  Anyways, at 50 yards the few shots I took went under 1.5" c to c with 180 grain rn soft points.  I would expect better with Sierra Matchkings.  Maybe I'll hunt for a white dovetail post front sight to replace the bead.

I load all my own ammo a tad under max so I don't expect anything to "set back" on my watch.  If I need more power, I use a bigger rifle.

So I've got a perfect "Truck Gun", & good alternate deer rifle.

Thanks all for your help!

[mannyrock]

   As for the marks, I believe that at some point in time, someone glass bedded the action with acra-glass, and then couldn't get the action out of the stock (got them stuck together).  So, they banged and banged on the receiver with a small hammer or two, trying to get it loose, and putting the dents in it.

     Another possibility is that they used a large monkeywrench (like you would use on a water pipe) to unscrew the action from the original barrel.  I have actually seen old gunsmithing books where they tell you how to do this.  But, the action has to be heavily padded with leather before you put the wrench on it, or the wrench will cut marks into the action.

    Sadly, I agree with the prior poster. The .308 Winchester is a 66,000 psi round, and you are firing it in a 100 year old action specifically designed to handle a 45,000 psi round.  It will not take long before you get lug set back and a ruined action.    I think that you should strongly consider hand loading the .308 rounds down to a low level load, giving perhaps mild .300 Savage type performance, to reduce the pressure in your rifle.  And, I would only do this after first, once again, specifically having the headspaced checked by a gunsmith.


   About 12 years ago, the second incarnation of the Kimber company bought up a bunch of old Swedes  (a few thousand), put 7.62 Nato barrels on them, dropped them into sloppy black Ramline Stocks, and sold them under the name of the "Kimber-Swede."  Several technical guys at Kimber were so outraged at this, that they quit!  If you look back through the old Shooter's Bibles, you will see these listed for one or two years.


Regards,

Mannyrock

[mannyrock]

  As for the barrel, the flaming bomb is typically what you see on the barrels made for the Springfield 03-A3 during WWII, in .30-06.  Someone took a Springfield barrel, cut about one-half an inch off of the receiver end of it (to get it to a .308 Winchester chamber length), cut additional threads further up the barrel, and put it on the rifle.  This procedure was commonly called "Setting back the barrel", and was quite common among older gunsmiths, who often customized Springfield rifles to convert them to .308.

Regards,

 Mannyrock

[jcn59]

I'll bet you are right about the glass bedding.  The barrel, & complete action were glass bedded to the walnut stock.  It was tight when I removed it.

The headspace is fine on this rifle.  Generally, when I headspace a barrel, I like to feel the bolt close on a factory round.   However,if you ever want to see how important precise headspace is, measure the headspace on a .454 Casull Super Redhawk and then tell me how important a few thou is. 

For reference, and most of you know this, there were a jillion small ring mausers rebarelled to .308 Win. and I have never heard anyone tell of having a problem with these rifles.

[Gerry N.]

Shortly before and during WWII the Swedish Government did some serious testing of the M96 reciever with an eye to updating it.  They barreled some in .30-06 for testing and found that although the steel in the recievers was fine for that round, the actions weren't long enough for easy adaptation so they gave it up.

The M96 and M38 Swedish actions are strong enough to handle any load found in 7.62 NATO or .308 Winchester.  .308 Win. is a popular caliber in Scandinavia and many thousands of rifles in that caliber have been made up on those actions.   From introduction in 1894 until the Swedes ceased using the M94, 96 and M38 they found no reason to change the metallurgical specifications. The only thing that ever changed was barrel length. The Swedish army also recognised no differentiation in bolt handle configuration either. To them a bolt was a bolt, bent handle or straight.

Gerry N.

[Hank08]

I have a small ring 93 made by FN with that same 03a3 barrel threads cut off rethreaded and rechambered to .308, 2 groove barrel which accounts for the shiney barrel, your seeing mostly a shiney smooth bore with only the 2 grooves but they shoot great.  I've had this one for
about 15 yrs.  shoot the same ammo in it that I shoot in my other .308s.  This ones set up like a scout rifle with a 2 power LER scope.  Headspace has never changed, I have guages.
Shoot it ,enjoy it.
Mannyrock is probably right about the marks on the receiver.  The bedder probably didn't know about
sticking it in a freezer and that freezing it would pop it loose.
H08

[coyotejoe]

The Swedish Mausers are some of the best and strongest of all the Mauser actions. Husqvarna built many fine sporting rifles on that same basic action. I don't care for the "cock on closing" design but that is not difficult to convert. The absense of the third safety lug does not bother me at all, how many modern comercial actions have a safety lug? The 6.5x55 as loaded by the Swedes is hardly a "low pressure cartridge", SAAMI specs are very conservative for the 6.5x55, remembering that there are also Krags chambered for that round.

[AtlLaw]

The Swedish Mausers are some of the best and strongest of all the Mauser actions.

+1  As I remember, don't bet on it as y'all know what my memory is like...    Anyway, I was thinking I heard that that after the run of M94's made in Germany, the Swedes took over the production themselves.  What I understood for the reason was that they, they being the Swede's, were not happy with the quality of the steel being used.