Author Topic: The .30/06 part 2 (Read 2723 times)

BRL · « **on:** March 22, 2009, 02:19:03 PM »

I thought I would start a new thread here since the last one kix started kind of ran away from the intended topic and this post I'm about to make really might not belong in his thread either. Very simply, ponder the following...(keeping all game animals in mind).

Imagine that all rifles and calibers were banned (or never made) except for a bolt action .30-06. Would any hunter (in the US) really be hindered?

Imagine that all rifles and calibers were banned (or never made) except for a (any) action .30-30. Would any hunter (in the US) really be hindered?

Imagine that all rifles and calibers were banned (or never made) except for a bolt action .243. Would any hunter (in the US) really be hindered?

I could go on here...insert caliber...down to .223 and its short comings on animals deer size and up and .300 Win mag and up with recoil, ammo price/availability, etc.

Again, like Kix's thread...not what caliber is better, has more energy at X, flatter shooting than Y...Just a thought.

Tunaman · « **Reply #1 on:** March 22, 2009, 06:12:27 PM »

The 30/06 is a pretty poor Varmit cartridge and It would not be my first choice for a Grizzly. However, for everything in between, it is just about perfect. Keep in mind, I am not saying that an 06 can't be used for varmints or Grizzly bears but I am glad that we have other rounds to use for the. There is no one perfect caliber for everything. Where I live, in the deep south, a 25/06 is pretty close to perfect. The 25/06 works for preditors, hogs and southern deer pretty darn well amd since we have no prarie dogs or big bears, it is a great choice. If I lived in Alaska, a 25.06 probably would not be my choice. I would probably carry a 338. If I lived on the prarie, I would probably want a 270 or a 30/06 and a Varmint caliber of some sort. So to answer your question,in my opnion, there is no perfect cartridge for all of North America.

jro45 · « **Reply #2 on:** March 23, 2009, 01:57:55 AM »

The 30/06 is good for hogs,black bears,deer,coyotes, and a few more. But not brown bears.

BRL · « **Reply #3 on:** March 23, 2009, 02:02:18 AM »

You are absolutely correct...there is no perfect caliber. There are so many variables: fit, action, range, recoil, etc. etc...Even then it will come down to the individual. You like the .25-06...a great round. I like the 7mm-08 in my area. Would a deer know the difference out to 300 yards? Probably not. But we have our preferences.

My post wasn't really a question as it was a continuation of a previous thread ("The 30/06") regarding the .30-06 and who still loved the round. Sure you can match a caliber to game probably better for certain situations. But, it's still a great round after all these years and new cartridges popping up.

I think all these new rounds are a conspiracy! The inventors didn't want a better cartridge, they wanted us all to create discussion boards and topics to try to figure out which one was the best.

They know its impossible and they are laughing at us trying to figure out.

Tunaman · « **Reply #4 on:** March 23, 2009, 03:35:01 AM »

Quote from: BRL on March 23, 2009, 02:02:18 AM

You are absolutely correct...there is no perfect caliber. There are so many variables: fit, action, range, recoil, etc. etc...Even then it will come down to the individual. You like the .25-06...a great round. I like the 7mm-08 in my area. Would a deer know the difference out to 300 yards? Probably not. But we have our preferences.

My post wasn't really a question as it was a continuation of a previous thread ("The 30/06") regarding the .30-06 and who still loved the round. Sure you can match a caliber to game probably better for certain situations. But, it's still a great round after all these years and new cartridges popping up.

I think all these new rounds are a conspiracy! The inventors didn't want a better cartridge, they wanted us all to create discussion boards and topics to try to figure out which one was the best. They know its impossible and they are laughing at us trying to figure out.

I fully agree with your premise, The 30/06 is one of the finest cartridges ever created. If I only had one Rifle, I would most certanly choose a 30/06. Lucky for me, that is not the case.

jmayton · « **Reply #5 on:** March 23, 2009, 03:59:18 AM »

One time, while hunting in Alaska, I was charged by a Griz. I had my trusty 30-06 with me, but immediately realized I couldn't shoot the beast because that 180gr bullet just wouldn't kill him effectively enough. So I stood awaiting my fate. The bear was so astonished at my decision it stopped, stared, shook it's head in disbelief, and then turned and walked away.

The moral of the story: Another hunter saved by the '06.

In truth, I'd shoot anything I needed to with an '06 and only in a few circumstances would I feel inadequate in doing so.

Tunaman · « **Reply #6 on:** March 23, 2009, 05:27:40 AM »

Note, I did not say that a 30/06 could not kill a big bear. I freely admit that many bears have fallen to a 30/06 and even a 223. I simply stated that a 30/06 would not ne my first choice for a big bear. I think that we can all agree that there are better rounds for that kind of work.

bill439 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 23, 2009, 05:50:19 AM »

The 30-06 is not perfect, however same can be said of most all military calibers before the vietnam age. all military cal. 6.5's, 7mm's, 7.65, 7.62russ, .303, 8mm., all of these have killed everything on the planet. With good bullets they still can. Most all of these calibers will do what you ask of them if you do your part.
What does all this mean? I don't know, I'm still using my 30-06 with good results!!!! bill439

jmayton · « **Reply #8 on:** March 23, 2009, 06:41:06 AM »

No offense Tunaman, just having a little fun. I'm just not one to biggest bullet I can. I like to take a round I'm confident in and place it well. If a bear was coming after me, I'd want the biggest round I could have with as many in the mag as possible.

teddy12b · « **Reply #9 on:** March 23, 2009, 07:02:04 AM »

If I had to choose one of my rifles to keep, it'd be my 30-06. I'd love to hunt the big bears with it, loaded with 220 bullets or the heaviest barnes bullet for .308. I wouldn't be worried about it, but then again I've never been charged by one either. I have seen what a 220gr bullet out of a 30-06 will do to a black bear and it was devastating.

The 30-06 isn't ideal for anything, but it'll get any job done. I'd love to hunt the big bears with my 30-06, but I'd rather do it with my lever 45/70. I'd love to hunt varmints with my 30-06, but I'd rather do it with a 223.

I really don't get why this debate always goes on. The 30-06 is only a victim of it's age. If it was a new cartridge brought out today the magazine writers would be lined up to try out the new marvelous cartridge that has more power than a 308 with less recoil than a 300WM. The new wonder round that can be loaded from 100 - 250gr bullets would be in every magazine, but instead it's old news and people want the newest hottest whatever so they can think it gives them an advantage.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #10 on:** March 23, 2009, 07:13:54 AM »

some would hunt if you had to jump out of a tree and bite the critter on the neck .
if all you own is a hammer all critters would look like a nail .
When all i had was a 30-06 i hunted every thing with it . only black bears , and deer , turkeys , ground hogs and other small critters . it worked fine .

BRL · « **Reply #11 on:** March 23, 2009, 07:30:58 AM »

Tunaman, that's a funny lookin tuna in your picture.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #12 on:** March 23, 2009, 08:10:38 AM »

The 30-06 is a great round and has been for the past 100 years.
Taking your assumptions I think we would have had ammo makers hot load the 30-06 and get another 100 FPS or more out of it like Hornady has with the light mag series. And then they would find a sabot in order to shoot 223 like Remington did with the accelerators.
Oh wait someone has.
Yes if there were only 30-06 then everyone would use it and make modifications to it to do what is being done with the different calibers and cases that are out there now.
Then you have the whole Keith Vs Occonner arguement. Small bullet with good BC and fast vs huge hunk of lead at med velocity.
As for 243 as a one gun big game rifle, I think it is a little light for most big game. If I had one and only one would I still hunt. Yep.
30-30 is a great old round. It has a trajectory like a rainbow but as a woods rifle it really can not be beat. Would I hunt with it? Yep I would just have to get closer to the game.
A 223 or similar rifle for big game? While it is done, again we can go back to my answer on the 243 and I think it is way too light for most big game.
I think the perfect 4 gun battery for N. American game is.
22LR (Small game), 223/ 22-250/ 243 win (preditors and varmints), 308 /30-06 (big game- Deer, black bear, hogs) and 338 Win Mag.
With all that I own and how I have different rifle set up for the different tasks in hunting all I can say is I am glad we are mot limited to one design.

Tunaman · « **Reply #13 on:** March 23, 2009, 08:11:12 AM »

Quote from: BRL on March 23, 2009, 07:30:58 AM

Tunaman, that's a funny lookin tuna in your picture.

you should have seen the tuna that it ate.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #14 on:** March 24, 2009, 04:36:42 AM »

Quote from: BRL on March 22, 2009, 02:19:03 PM

I thought I would start a new thread here since the last one kix started kind of ran away from the intended topic and this post I'm about to make really might not belong in his thread either. Very simply, ponder the following...(keeping all game animals in mind).

Imagine that all rifles and calibers were banned (or never made) except for a bolt action .30-06. Would any hunter (in the US) really be hindered?

For big game from deer to elk or even moose, not so much. It would not be my first choice for big bears but the .30-06 is still the most popular cartridge carried by Alaskan guides (or was last time I saw any info on it, which was a couple years back).

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Imagine that all rifles and calibers were banned (or never made) except for a (any) action .30-30. Would any hunter (in the US) really be hindered?

It would be a PITA for varmint hunters and hunters who regularly take big game at ranges past 200 yards. The saying that “you can always get closer” bears little relation to the facts. Over the years using only a .30-30 would have resulted in fewer animals in my freezer as I would have been unable to take some of the shots I took easily with my 7mm RM – shots where “getting closer” was not an option.

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Imagine that all rifles and calibers were banned (or never made) except for a bolt action .243. Would any hunter (in the US) really be hindered?

Again, a .243 Win would have limited the number of animals in my freezer over the years. Since I started hunting Colorado game back in 982, I’ve seen more elk wounded and lost with the .243 Win than possibly all other cartridges put together. As a rule I plan on 1500fpe retained energy when hunting elk as one of the limiting factors in determining the effective range of the rifle and cartridge in hand. The .243 Win drops below 1500fpe at around 100 yards to 130 yards, depending on the load. It drops below 1000fpe, my limit for deer, at around 300 yards. While I could probably take game cleanly beyond those ranges, I would much prefer my 7mm RM, .308 Win, .30-06’s or .300 WM for such work.

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I could go on here...insert caliber...down to .223 and its short comings on animals deer size and up and .300 Win mag and up with recoil, ammo price/availability, etc.

The .223 is an even worse choice than the .243 Win for my purposes and would have resulted far less meat in the freezer.

As a handloader, my .300WM is only slightly more expensive to feed than my .30-06’s, the difference being the additional powder cost. Since I shoot premium bullets in both, the extra powder cost is marginal.

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Again, like Kix's thread...not what caliber is better, has more energy at X, flatter shooting than Y...Just a thought.

The fact is that every cartridge represents a compromise in one area or another. My favorite rifle is my .257 Roberts, which is great for varmints and deer and has low recoil. But I have to handload for it to get the performance I want as factory ammo choices are rather limited.

My 7mm RM was my first big game rifle and has taken lots of prairie dogs, its share of coyotes, as well as antelope, deer and elk. Recoil is about like a .30-06. The .308 Win and .30-06 work fine and I shoot them out to 500 yards on a regular basis. Deer at 500 are meat on the table with either one. If the target was elk I’d be more cautious with the .308 Win, but 425 yards would be no problem. My 7mm RM and .300 WM are my real long range rifles and I’m building a low-recoil 6.5mm-06AI that will join them. The Marlins in .30-30, .375 Win and .45-70 are fun guns and great for the woods but when I get on open plains country or open areas in the forest they are rather limiting when it comes to range. And here in Colorado that happens a lot.

Since 1982 there hasn’t been a shot on big game that I couldn’t have taken just as well with a .308 Win. Not so with the Marlin lever guns, a .223, .243 Win or even my .257 Roberts. Cartridges are not all created equal.

Remmy · « **Reply #15 on:** March 28, 2009, 01:58:09 AM »

I only have one center fire, the 06! Now i can dream for a 22-250, 7mm ,270, 338...

drdougrx · « **Reply #16 on:** March 28, 2009, 02:37:33 AM »

I HATE these threads .... having said that and after shooting all kinds of animals in all kinds of locations and conditions....I agree with Tuna...except for griz (unless backed up by a guide) an 06 would would easily cover every animal I've hunted thus far up to and including moose and bison on the large side and pronghorn and blackbuck and mouflon on the small side.

Bart Solo · « **Reply #17 on:** March 28, 2009, 05:04:23 PM »

The never ending argument. I have a 30-06. I know a lot of folks who only have one center fire rifle. It is most often a 30-06. Of course, I also know a lot of folks who only have a 30-30. The truth is the 30-06 is as versatile cartridge as has ever been created. There are a lot of rounds that better at any single thing but very few can do as many things as well. It is sort of the jack of all trades among center fire rifle cartridges.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #18 on:** March 29, 2009, 06:15:18 AM »

Quote from: Remmy on March 28, 2009, 01:58:09 AM

I only have one center fire, the 06! Now i can dream for a 22-250, 7mm ,270, 338...

They often say that a man with a .30-06 doesn't need anything else.

I always considered that a good reason not to get one. After filling up my safe with rifles chambered for other cartridges, however, I finally got a .30-06. And another. And then yet another. Fortunately the last one will go to my future son-in-law on their wedding day.

With the possible exception of a high-volume varminting rifle like a .223, you are pretty well set for anything North America can offer.

kiddekop · « **Reply #19 on:** March 29, 2009, 07:51:47 AM »

Quote from: jro45 on March 23, 2009, 01:57:55 AM

The 30/06 is good for hogs,black bears,deer,coyotes, and a few more. But not brown bears.

In 1924 a big game hunter using a Griffin and Howe customized 1903 Springfield 30-06 completed his goal to kill every species of big game in N America which included grizzlies( some people call them brown bear).Jack O'Connor did the same fete with his 270 Winchester.

kiddekop · « **Reply #20 on:** March 29, 2009, 08:05:49 AM »

Quote from: Tunaman on March 22, 2009, 06:12:27 PM

The 30/06 is a pretty poor Varmit cartridge and It would not be my first choice for a Grizzly. However, for everything in between, it is just about perfect. Keep in mind, I am not saying that an 06 can't be used for varmints or Grizzly bears but I am glad that we have other rounds to use for the. There is no one perfect caliber for everything. Where I live, in the deep south, a 25/06 is pretty close to perfect. The 25/06 works for preditors, hogs and southern deer pretty darn well amd since we have no prarie dogs or big bears, it is a great choice. If I lived in Alaska, a 25.06 probably would not be my choice. I would probably carry a 338. If I lived on the prarie, I would probably want a 270 or a 30/06 and a Varmint caliber of some sort. So to answer your question,in my opnion, there is no perfect cartridge for all of North America.

The most popular caliber in Alaska is the 30-06 as it can be used for every species .Bullets for the 30-06 are available up to 250 grains.

FW Conch · « **Reply #21 on:** March 29, 2009, 01:49:39 PM »

Early in the '70s, I read were Elanor O'Connor, Jack's wife, took an elephant shooting a 30-06 pushing a 300grn solid bullet. Jack & the PH backed her up, but it wasn't necessary, because she "stoned" the critter in the brain & it was falling out from under their shots.

Jim

slim rem 7 · « **Reply #22 on:** March 30, 2009, 03:16:43 AM »

as long as ive got a good 22 an good bolt 30 06 .. ii feel like im
covered .. now with plenty of green to sling around id have 223,22-50. 45-70.. no tellin what else.. but they not need guns. they want guns..

mannyrock · « **Reply #23 on:** March 30, 2009, 04:29:11 AM »

Just some extra info. The .30-06 HE (High Energy) factory rounds that use to be sold by federal (or winchester?), with the 180 grain bullet, chronoed out of a 22 inch barrel at a velocity only 10 fps less than the standard 180 grain factory load of the .300 H&H Magnum. In other words, the HE .30-06 load was virtually identical to the standard .300 H&H round. I would guess that the Hornaday Light Magnum round for the .30-06 would do the same.

Given that these high power loads typically use very very good bullets (Nosler Partition, Barnes, etc.), this cranks the 30-06 up to a new plain of performance when it comes to grizzly, moose, etc. Aside from the huge Alaskan Brown Bears, which not one it 10,000 U.S. hunters will ever see in their lifetimes, these rounds would easily handle everything.

Mannyrock

Rangr44 · « **Reply #24 on:** March 30, 2009, 05:54:25 AM »

I'm not the first to say it, but it bears repeating:

The .30-06 is NEVER a mistake.

.

wink_man · « **Reply #25 on:** March 30, 2009, 07:10:39 AM »

Quote from: teddy12b on March 23, 2009, 07:02:04 AM

I really don't get why this debate always goes on. The 30-06 is only a victim of it's age. If it was a new cartridge brought out today the magazine writers would be lined up to try out the new marvelous cartridge that has more power than a 308 with less recoil than a 300WM. The new wonder round that can be loaded from 100 - 250gr bullets would be in every magazine,

Teddy, you have me rolling on the floor here. More power than a 308 with less recoil than a 300 magnum?? You could easily be a scribe for any and all of the gunrags, LOL, you have them figuered out, love it.

Ya convinced me, 3 30-06's obviously isn't enough for me, so I bought a 30-06 barrel for my encore.

teddy12b · « **Reply #26 on:** March 30, 2009, 07:44:20 AM »

Quote from: wink_man on March 30, 2009, 07:10:39 AM

Quote from: teddy12b on March 23, 2009, 07:02:04 AM

I really don't get why this debate always goes on. The 30-06 is only a victim of it's age. If it was a new cartridge brought out today the magazine writers would be lined up to try out the new marvelous cartridge that has more power than a 308 with less recoil than a 300WM. The new wonder round that can be loaded from 100 - 250gr bullets would be in every magazine,

Teddy, you have me rolling on the floor here. More power than a 308 with less recoil than a 300 magnum?? You could easily be a scribe for any and all of the gunrags, LOL, you have them figuered out, love it.

Ya convinced me, 3 30-06's obviously isn't enough for me, so I bought a 30-06 barrel for my encore.

I wish I could take credit for that, but I was repeating something I read that made sense to me. I'd love to write for a gun magazine and have them pay for my ammo & hunting trips, but I doubt that's ever going to happen.

Good luck on the encore 30-06! I have a 26" stainless heavy 30-06 encore barrel and took a few deer with it. It's great, but the pro-hunters sound like they're a touch more accurate. If mine didn't have the sentimental value, I'd trade for a pro-hunter.

slim rem 7 · « **Reply #27 on:** April 02, 2009, 08:16:34 AM »

hunt a grizz with my 06 .. not hardly.. but then ive not seen anything else id hunt a full grown grizz with..mabe a tank..mabe :)slim
yall do know im terrified of the things ..

kix · « **Reply #28 on:** April 02, 2009, 04:13:20 PM »

Alright,Alright! I'm overjoyed there are more 06 lovers out there! However, I have another question; I just acquired a Springfield 03-A3 and since I don't know what the barrel twist rate is I was curious as to what bullet gives the best accuracy. In the day I think the optimum bullet was in the range of 190-200 grs. Am I wrong ? I am going to order a S&K no drill mount since I like to hunt with my mil-surps and would like the best accuracy. And thanks for all your responses! Kix

teddy12b · « **Reply #29 on:** April 02, 2009, 04:42:39 PM »

I read about an old trick to measure the twist rate in your rifle by starting your cleaning rod and meauring how long it takes it to make one full rotation. Hopefully someone here will just know the right answer, but for now you can play with that and see how close you get to being right.