Got to the range yesterday

[AtlLaw]

Naturally I took the 45-120.  Geeese I love that rifle!     You may remember that I loaded 6 rounds increasing the charge by 1 full grain for this session.  Also since the last time I shot it put a 2x7 Leupold Compact on it with Signature Zee mounts, not to mention the LimbSaver recoil pad and filling the butt hole up with lead.  Wait, that doesn't sound right...    nevermind, you know what I mean...

Anyway, I bore sighted the rifle, fired one round at 25 yards (from a clean barrel), adjusted and fired one round at 50 yards.  Another slight adjustment and fired the last 4 at 100 with 3 going into about a 1.7 inch group following a final (very minor) sight adjustment after shot #4!   

After I fired the first sighting in round I couldn't believe the difference in felt recoil the LimbSaver and extra weight made.     Heck my Whelen, which I also shot that day, was a lot more fractious!  On top of that, after I finished shooting it I realized I had never put on my shoulder pad!     Heck, I'll be able to take that bad boy up another 20 - 25 gr. no problem!   

One thing that did suprise me, and something I don't have an answer for.     As I remember, I don't have my notes here so correct me if I'm wrong, the first time I shot it using my starting charge I got 2080 fps with the 405 gr. bullet.  For this trip I upped the charge one full grain and the velocity averaged 1950 fps!     130 fps difference!  LESS!!!

Almost everything was the same; even the OAT.  The only thing I did differently was crimp the bullet with a Lyman 45-120 Taper Crimp Die.  I am at a loss to explain the difference in velocities.  So I'm going to start over.  Next time I get to my bench I'll load 3 with the starting load and 3 with one grain more and refire the groups.     Anybody got any idea about what may have caused this?

As an aside, I started working with my M99C in .358 again. This rifle's accuracy has never been the best, and I thought I'd try some Handi Rifle techniques on the fore arm.  The ol' girl shot better then she ever has!     I don't know if it was the free floating or rubber washer, but it darn sure didn't hurt!   

[mcwoodduck]

What powder are you using?  Black, Pyrodex RS, Pyrodex P, tripple 7, blue dot?
Is it a really slow powder?  Could it be burning out of the barrel?

[Skunk]

Good shooting Richard!

[quickdtoo]

Good shooting!! The crimp can make a difference, although I would have expected it to go the other way, unless the velocity is more consistent now with less variance.  AA's data requires a firm crimp, are you using mag primers too?

Tim

http://www.accuratepowder.com/data/PerCaliber2Guide/Rifle/ObsoleteCartridges/45%20120%20Sharps%20Straight%20page%20365.pdf

[LaOtto222]

What do you mean fore end work - I think your 358 shot better because you are using your RCBS Case Master to measure run out.

Good shooting with the 45-120

[dpe.ahoy]

Fract---what?  On the velocity loss, I believe you had your tongue on the other side of your mouth the first time.   Or the cycle of the moon was different.  That is strange, maybe the crimp has something to do with it.  I agree with Tim though, I'd think it would raise the speed.  Makin' shims didn't have anything to do with it, did it?   DP

[JerryKo]

Great shooting Richard!  Have another shim with me!  Glad to hear your getting used to the recoil.   Lots of fellas probably glad to hear it can be tamed.  Keep them posts coming.

No idea with the velocity loss.  With reloading any change can bring about another change, but not the expected results.  Colder day,..less settling...who knows.

Jerry

[BBF]

So, at what point do you need a gun bearer to lug that cannon around? Just how much weight did you put into that stock?

[AtlLaw]

What powder are you using?

Actually I'm using a pretty fast smokeless; AA5477.  By the looks of the barrel it burns very clean with no unburned flakes laying around.  I'd say the chance of it buring outside the barrel are very slim.   

AA's data requires a firm crimp, are you using mag primers too?

I'm using CCI250's.  There is only 1 variation I can come up with.  That being, as you so wisely mentioned, the crimp.  I attempted to crimp the first 6 with a spacer and my 45/70 Lee FCD.  I was never very happy with it and not even convinced it worked.  The next 6 rounds were crimped with the Lyman 45-120 Taper CD as were the six I just reloaded.  I crimped, adjusted, crimped, adjusted until I got a crimp that measured .002 less then the mouth diameter before crimping.

I think I'll try 3 without a crimp just for grins!     I should be able to fire that thing 12 times off the bench now... maybe 

your 358 shot better because you are using your RCBS Case Master to measure run out.

Well, I spent hours measuring and loading and measuring last night!     Have I got some more stories to tell!   

Makin' shims didn't have anything to do with it, did it?

Naw, unprocessed shim material ain't allowed at the club.  Bunch a stuffed shirts...    I sneak a few in though... I figger as much as I been shootin my handi's, and I got 2 more I haven't even started with yet, you can never tell when a shim will be needed!   

the recoil.   Lots of fellas probably glad to hear it can be tamed.

Hey Jerry!  I was flat amazed at the reduction in recoil!     But Tim and Tyler both told me it goes way up when you hit 40kpsi!  I tell ya, as good as this thing is shooting those 405'a at around 1900-2000 fps, I'm just gonna keep going up in half grain incraments until the accuracy falls off and call an inch and a half good enough!     If that's around 2300 fps... well, alrighty then!    Recoil is no longer a concern!   

Just how much weight did you put into that stock?

I have no idea...    a bunch of swaged 44 bullets, filled the rest of a 7 inch 7/8^ths inch hole with #9 shot.  It added enough weight to move the point of balance back to where it should be.     I think Tim and someone else knows how much lead it holds.  I'm more interested in the resultant weight so I can calculate recoil!   

Great fun boys!  Especially since the pain is gone... 

[petemi]

Ya know, Richard, you Tim and Ty are the worst kind of people.  You've got me looking around for a .45-70 to ream out to a 120.  What do I need it for....................who knows?  Hippos, elephants, buffalo have been rather rare here.  I did have a big snow machine trespassing here, would work well on that.  I hear they are cloning mamoths, so if they come back, I'd be ready.  Oh well, it's just another "I gotta have".  Hope the wife will understand

Pete

[BBF]

OK, so what does that cannon weigh now??

[JerryKo]

Oh well, it's just another "I gotta have".  Hope the wife will understand

Here, here,...just another "I gotta have", again!!!  What was I thinking!  Kids are like drugs.  They make you do things you would never do before.  Ever!

Maybe I'll post a "range report" of their quad riding...

Just postponed my Buff Classic once more.  Really have to stay off those other classifieds.

Jerry

[mcwoodduck]

Hey did you watch the "Pig Bomb" on the discovery channel last night?
I think I may need a 45-120 if what they think will happen, does happen.
They think that the domestic wild hog population is mating with Russian boars and excaped domestic pigs and a super wild pig is being grown that is larger and more agressive. 
They are predicting a Boar that will grow in size from 2.5' average size to about 3.5' avaerage size.
Kind of cool and scary to have a pig out there that will act like a Cape buffalo.
Is this a reason to get an opened sighted 375 H&H?

[Blackhawker]

One thing that did suprise me, and something I don't have an answer for.   Undecided  As I remember, I don't have my notes here so correct me if I'm wrong, the first time I shot it using my starting charge I got 2080 fps with the 405 gr. bullet.  For this trip I upped the charge one full grain and the velocity averaged 1950 fps!   Huh  130 fps difference!  LESS!!!

Atlaw, I'm certainly no expert when it comes to these 45-somethings (70, 90, 100...) but I was wondering if crimp or lack of crimp might have influenced your velocity.  The other factor might be temperature.  I once loaded some .223 ammo and took it out to the Wyoming desert in the middle of the summer and fired it.  I don't know if it was elevation and temperature combined but the primers blew holes right out the back.  I've never seen anything like that!  I know I didn't overload them.  Funny thing about that is I had about 10 rounds of that ammo left and I probably wasn't very smart about this, but I fired them at the range this past December...it was 35 degrees at best.  Guess what?  They shot better than I ever expected and there was NO sign of overpressure on the primers at all...not even any flattening.  Point is, perhaps temperature influenced your variance in velocity. ..or maybe a crimp and temperature. 

Blackhawker

[petemi]

Blackhawker, who is the Indian Chief in your avatar?  A Cherokee??  Thanks,

Pete

[AtlLaw]

Tim and Ty are the worst kind of people.

I heard dat!     Them and the others is a bad influence!  Especially on us weak willed types   I've always been that way though...     That's why it always was so easy for them loose wimmins to take advantage of me!     

You've got me looking around for a .45-70 to ream out to a 120.

Be the first kid on your block Pete!  And need got nuthin to do with it!!   

OK, so what does that cannon weigh now??

I dunno...   I gotta find out though.  Maybe I'll do the scale thing tomorrow.  Gotta sneak around to do it though.  Kathie throughs a screaming fit when she see's a scale.  All kinds a wailin and cryin, talkin to herself until she finally jumps on it like a lioness pouncin on a rabbit!  Then after the 15 minutes or so that it takes her to talk herself into looking at the scale the trouble REALLY starts!   

[tykempster]

Are you using a filler with those light loads?  The powder position could be different?

[AtlLaw]

did you watch the "Pig Bomb" on the discovery channel last night?

No, for some reason the Discovery and TV Guide Channel just stopped working a few months ago.     I keep meaning to call my cable company but just as quickly forget to do it.   

Kind of cool and scary to have a pig out there that will act like a Cape buffalo.

Well Woodrow, we can dream... 

I was wondering if crimp or lack of crimp might have influenced your velocity.

We'll know after my next trip to the range!     Or at least have more data... 

The other factor might be temperature.

Each day's temperature was within a couple degrees of the other.  I even used the same bench!   

Where did you get the handle BlackHawker?  That was one of my old Unit's name; the Black Hawks.   

[AtlLaw]

Are you using a filler with those light loads?

Hey Tyler!  I'm using a grain and a half of poly filler.  It seems to be holding the powder against the primer.  I been meaning to ask you, why did you go with 4320?

[Blackhawker]

Blackhawker, who is the Indian Chief in your avatar?  A Cherokee??  Thanks,

Pete

That is a photo of Blackhawk, the Chief of the Sauk, who even at the age of 65 years and older, led Sauk, Fox and other tribal warriors into battles in the early to mid 1800's.  He is somewhat of an unheard of Chief but his history is quite impressive. 

Many of the Chiefs of the mid-west got lost somehow in our history books and we tend to only hear of Geronimo, Sitting Bull and other famous warriors of the west.  Nobody ever speaks of or remembers Chiefs like Blackhawk, Pontiac or Opchanacanough of the East who probably led some of the biggest resistance wars of all times and did so into their very old ages.

Anyway, since I like Ruger Blackhawks and live nearby the area in which Blackhawk lived and battled, I thought the photo fit well.

[petemi]

I've read about him and the Sauk and Fox in Tecumsehs federation.  Neat avatar.  My wife's a Ponca, and my Apaloosa is named Ponca Warrior, he goes by "Jim" at home!

Pete