Author Topic: Is one enough . (Read 17551 times)

KABAR2 · « **Reply #150 on:** October 08, 2009, 05:24:31 PM »

Well I have read through some of this thread, and have come to the conclusion that there are several trains of thought going on here........

1) basic wilderness survival after bugging out

2) holed up in one's house where possible

3) hunting small and large game

4) two legged predators

All in all what seems to be needed is the following:

a semi or bolt/lever action rifle (scoped?) that can take deer bear boar or two legged vermin caliber choice varies but most common ammo found through out the U.S.

is probably still 30-06 .308, 30-30,8mm, 7.62X39 &7.62 Russian rimmed

A shotgun 12ga down to 410.......

a 22 rf rifle

a large caliber pistol.

Flint and percussion have been mentioned,

one thing to consider in a cartridge rifle is being able to reload ammo for it....... I am in favor of the 45-70 for that reason, if smokeless powder is not to be had

black powder can be substituted.

I would consider a black powder solid frame revolver like the Remington 1858 with both cartridge and percussion cylinders.

last but not least no one has mentioned air rifles you can take a squirrel with them, and now there are large caliber one's that can do some real damage.

heck back on the Lewis & Clark expedition the took a air rifle which they took game including deer with, and the Indians thought it big magic.

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #151 on:** November 02, 2009, 02:28:23 PM »

My one point would be to avoid rimfires as they can't be reloaded. Maybe a 25-20? With a mold and lots of cases.

teamnelson · « **Reply #152 on:** November 02, 2009, 02:47:22 PM »

Quote

I would consider a black powder solid frame revolver like the Remington 1858 with both cartridge and percussion cylinders.]I would consider a black powder solid frame revolver like the Remington 1858 with both cartridge and percussion cylinders.

I think the BP/Smokeless idea has merit, but I'd go a Ruger Old Army just for a heavier action (and cause I have one

) You can easily cast ball ammo, get creative on lube, wash it in hot water, and skimp on powder for a short range game getter. I'd probably save the cartridge cylinder for 2 legged vermin.

Oldshooter · « **Reply #153 on:** November 02, 2009, 04:19:53 PM »

Quote

heck back on the Lewis & Clark expedition the took a air rifle which they took game including deer with, and the Indians thought it big magic.

You dont say!!!! I'd love to see that puppy or a picture of it anyway

Cornbelt · « **Reply #154 on:** November 05, 2009, 06:30:26 AM »

Youtube has a demonstration of a .50 air rifle used on a buffalo among other things. Tried to get a link, but it didn't work, sorry. It was a "career dragon slayer .50 caliber"

teamnelson · « **Reply #155 on:** November 05, 2009, 07:30:08 AM »

Per the website, the Dragon Slayer will send a .50 225gr bullet with 192 ftlbs energy at 567 fps for 1st shot, 541 fps on the 2nd shot; different for 200gr bullets. 10 shots, 3000psi tank, 11mm site rails, no iron sights. Weighs 8.8lbs and its loud (5-High), $620. To get it to 3000psi you need a compressor, and a spare parts kit would probably be a good idea.

I dunno ... I think a bow would do the same or better for less, with less maintenance requirements, and quieter.

'course, there's the magazine fed slingshot a fella makes over on suvivalistboards. Video of that is also on youtube.

don heath · « **Reply #156 on:** November 05, 2009, 09:01:10 PM »

Have used a bow with appropriate arrows for both fishing and shooting guinea fowl. With the blunt wire mash heads designed for bird hunting you could also take small mamals easily.

I just like a .177 pelet pistol because doves are very common where I am from and I know I can get enough each day to make the rice and wild veggies into a meal...I also remember just how much practice I had to put in as a kid with a bow to be able to take birds. (I was Rhodesia Junior Archery champion 1978) and I still missed more than I hit. With the webbley air pistol I hit more than I miss and it fits in the pocket on my cammel bak along with 200 shots...(mind you, I shoot 50 rnds from a handgun most days... but I used to shoot 60-120 arrows a day when training for the nationals....) I supose what I am saysing is it is a darn sight easier to be a good pistol shot than a great Bow shot!

MarkNJ · « **Reply #157 on:** December 10, 2009, 09:52:41 PM »

Is one enough? Well, I've been thinking about that just recently and I hope to soon test the theory. Back on page two I posted photos of my Ruger and Rossi rifles. The Ruger weighs in at nearly 9 lbs which gets noticable after half a day in the bush so I'm looking at duplicating the little Rossi singleshot in centrefire.
Thats nothing new although I have a simple little formula I came up with.

The smallest, lightest rifle in the most powerful, most common caliber, fitted with the lightest suppressor and the lightest, most reliable sighting system.

For me, this means a singleshot like a Handi, NEF or Rossi, cut back to less than 5 lbs, tuned and suppressed. These guns are cheap enough to buy two, one spare, and are readily available (even over here).
For caliber I choose 308 Winchester as this is very common, very versitile (easily loaded down for subsonics) and good for 300 yards on deer (probably more). Having a short barreled, suppressed 308 will give 300 Savage performance with the recoil of a 223.

A rifle like this can be carried easily all day with light or heavy subsonic ammo and standard ammo, covering all bases other than a firefight.

Our local Rossi agent isn't expecting another shipment until about March so I'll hopefully get one then and start this project

cheers

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #158 on:** December 11, 2009, 01:48:29 AM »

interesting idea , post how it turns out

45-70.gov · « **Reply #159 on:** December 11, 2009, 01:27:08 PM »

Quote from: MarkNJ on December 10, 2009, 09:52:41 PM

Is one enough? Well, I've been thinking about that just recently and I hope to soon test the theory. Back on page two I posted photos of my Ruger and Rossi rifles. The Ruger weighs in at nearly 9 lbs which gets noticable after half a day in the bush so I'm looking at duplicating the little Rossi singleshot in centrefire.
Thats nothing new although I have a simple little formula I came up with.

The smallest, lightest rifle in the most powerful, most common caliber, fitted with the lightest suppressor and the lightest, most reliable sighting system.

For me, this means a singleshot like a Handi, NEF or Rossi, cut back to less than 5 lbs, tuned and suppressed. These guns are cheap enough to buy two, one spare, and are readily available (even over here).
For caliber I choose 308 Winchester as this is very common, very versitile (easily loaded down for subsonics) and good for 300 yards on deer (probably more). Having a short barreled, suppressed 308 will give 300 Savage performance with the recoil of a 223.

A rifle like this can be carried easily all day with light or heavy subsonic ammo and standard ammo, covering all bases other than a firefight.

Our local Rossi agent isn't expecting another shipment until about March so I'll hopefully get one then and start this project

cheers

look at the 357/ 58

little need for the suppressor in 38

get one and try it

MarkNJ · « **Reply #160 on:** December 11, 2009, 02:41:26 PM »

I'll stick with the suppressor as it's legal over here, they take out a big percentage of recoil and I already load 308 subs, which are flatter shooting than 38 special and with more energy.
With the suppressor I get a 150 yard deer gun with the sound of a spring powered air rifle.
I did look at a 38/357 but like the added range of the sonic 308.

cheers

45-70.gov · « **Reply #161 on:** December 11, 2009, 02:46:44 PM »

i too have a 308 good round

just never tried a suppressed one

where are you??

they are legal here too but just too much paper work
and they are socially un acceptable here

MarkNJ · « **Reply #162 on:** December 11, 2009, 07:40:35 PM »

In New Zealand. No paperwork for suppressors, most firearm shops stock at least one or two suppressed rifles at all times and there are at least two or three aftermarket companies that will fit your rifle.
The trend here is supportive of "quieter" shooting ranges, there being few that see the "poacher/assassin" potential of suppressors, they are more considered a shooting aid.

cheers

don heath · « **Reply #163 on:** January 04, 2010, 03:18:42 AM »

In most 'modern' survival situations making noise is an asset to being found quickly! For any other scenario, a moderator is just about esential. It is not just the noise. Infact, I would say that supressing the noise is the least important aspect of a good supressor. a) It makes the bullets sonic crack the dominant noise, which makes you very hard to locate. b) it cuts recoil better than a muzzle break c) It stops muzzle flash at night d) it stops dust/snow signature during the day.

IF you are planning for civil unrest, EOTW whatever,, not being 'located' will do more for survival than a belt full of ammo and a machine gun. At least have the end of the barrel threaded so that a simple maxim type moderator can be made up if necessary. They hardly require great skill to make provided you have a threaded barrel and a short section of tube with the female threads on the back piece. No need to close the front or actually complete the silencer...you actually do not need baffels to do the basic job. I have been playing with a graphite fiber tube for my .223.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #164 on:** January 04, 2010, 03:35:35 AM »

In a pinch one could do as i saw in a magazine use a section of hose to attach a lawn mower muffler to your rifle . It also showerd a tail piece from a sink drain that had been slotted and attached to the bbl with a worm clamp. Guess in the end all sorts of things will be used .
I watched a program over the holiday where people were living in the desert . They set up "cabins" and lived off the land . Some were vets and the mostly used 30-30 rifles as they were easy to get , cheap , and ammo was also easy to get . In interviews it was shown they had all experinced combat . Makes one think about weapon choice . I though about this and in most cases a good 30-30 would work well.

rzwieg · « **Reply #165 on:** January 04, 2010, 03:44:19 AM »

Sound modifiers on a firearm can be a legal problem in some locations. But in an emergency situation...they're not that difficult to improvise.

As for black powder guns, you're probably better off spending your cash on more rimfire ammo or pellets. I feel standardization reduces logistical headaches.

MarkNJ · « **Reply #166 on:** January 04, 2010, 09:03:42 PM »

While I'm waiting for a suitable singleshot to arrive, I've cut down my worn out Lee-Enfield for a velocity test with a really short barrel. As you can see, this little rifle actually looks ok! It's 31 inches overall and the barrel is down to 11 inches. This is the right size for my project but it still weighs 7 pounds, mostly due to the heavy wood. I understand there is a barrel limit in the US, 16", where as over here, there is just a minimum overall lengh, that being 30". As it stands, this cut down 303 British would make a great truck or ATV gun and be ideal for pig hunting.
Shootall, .. 30/30's are popular over here also but not as common as the surplus Lee Enfields
I'll post the velocities when I get a chance to get up to the range

45-70.gov · « **Reply #167 on:** January 05, 2010, 06:36:06 PM »

I HAD A PROJECT LIKE THAT GOING 34 YEARS AGO
it was disassembled when i broke my back

most of the small parts were lost
by the time i was able to resume the project
i just saw it leaning in the corner a few minutes ago
[whats left of it]

why cant i throw stuff away
[any one want to sent me a parts pile??]

MarkNJ · « **Reply #168 on:** January 15, 2010, 09:36:01 PM »

Hi Don, I would like to see a picture of your graphite suppressor on the 223. Does it work ok?

cheers

MarkNJ · « **Reply #169 on:** January 17, 2010, 12:35:09 AM »

Put that shortened 303 Lee-Enfield across the chrono today and the best I could get with 180 grain SPBT ammo was 1900 fps which is very much like a 30/30 only with spitzers.
As I've said, this one is worn out ... keyholes at 50 yards ... but the theory of a 10 shot repeater, 31" long overall, power of a 30/30 and with military ruggedness, is appealing especially as it only cost me $50

The standard Lee-Enfield will do 2440 fps with a full lengh barrel so me cutting the barrel in half has lost about 540 fps. You could say thats 45 fps per inch.

cheers

Q · « **Reply #170 on:** January 17, 2010, 04:06:57 AM »

Short and sweet, I've played in the past when looking for what would work for me in a pack gun. That short set up you have is a nice touch to what could be done with just a little effort. I've shot a 16"brl 243 and 308 T/C in the past with a 2" gp at 100 off crossed sticks so I don't think you would be far off. I was thinking of doing the same with a 10FP Savage 308 but opted for an AR-15 with a 5.7 Upper because it's a flat shooter and the rounds are small. I'm getting to where I think about the weight issue when packing now

moorepower · « **Reply #171 on:** January 21, 2010, 05:25:57 AM »

22lr bolt gun, ammo found every where. M1 Garand, reliable see ammo found every where. .357 revolver, again ammo every where 38 spec and .357 mag. 870 or Mossberg 500 12 gauge pump, both reliable and ammo every where. I was tempted to throw in SKS instead of Garand, To me you the most important thing, long term is ammo availability. That limits the field down a bunch. What can you find any where? 22lr, .223, .308, .30-06, 7.62x39 and 12 gauge. If I could have only one it would be The M1 Garand.

Duane · « **Reply #172 on:** January 24, 2010, 05:17:56 AM »

Some where on the net I saw a marlin 925 wmr cut down shorter man I liked that rifle cant seem to find it now i want to replicate it .That pluse my single six and my 30/30 would suffice I believe cause I would be headed to the marsh camp .

gstewart44 · « **Reply #173 on:** January 24, 2010, 01:16:03 PM »

Quote from: MarkNJ on January 17, 2010, 12:35:09 AM

Put that shortened 303 Lee-Enfield across the chrono today and the best I could get with 180 grain SPBT ammo was 1900 fps which is very much like a 30/30 only with spitzers.
As I've said, this one is worn out ... keyholes at 50 yards ... but the theory of a 10 shot repeater, 31" long overall, power of a 30/30 and with military ruggedness, is appealing especially as it only cost me $50

The standard Lee-Enfield will do 2440 fps with a full lengh barrel so me cutting the barrel in half has lost about 540 fps. You could say thats 45 fps per inch.

cheers

Have you slugged your barrel to find out the true bore/groove dimensions?

don heath · « **Reply #174 on:** January 26, 2010, 02:02:04 AM »

Have seen lee enfield barrels (new) run from .309-.318....

One of my all time favourite .303 loads is a Hornady 100grn XTP on top of a regular load of S335- gives about 3000fps out of my 19" Jungle carbine. Awsome on monkeys.

Also, I used a single 0 buckshot ball (nominal .32 cal) on top of 5 grns MS200 (Bulseye roughly) for 800fps- great for taking guineafowl. (actually it was an American who was using the same thing in a 30-30 that taught me the trick). NB- Do not try this with a rimless round- the case shortens at the shoulder becuase pressure is too low - in .303- who cares! The chamber is usually well oversize

snappy · « **Reply #175 on:** January 27, 2010, 02:36:17 PM »

In my view A 22lr and 12 ga is all that you would need. Every house or most 22lr and 12 ga can be found, even pooling resoures most everyone has these. The 12ga is ideal for defense and hunting. The 22 provides a great round for small game. Remember when you are trying to survive a broader mine set is reqired

moorepower · « **Reply #176 on:** January 28, 2010, 10:59:22 AM »

The issue with this kind of survival is, the rabbits are not the ones you are worried about.

MarkNJ · « **Reply #177 on:** January 28, 2010, 04:43:58 PM »

gstewart44, yes I slugged the barrel and getting .307 and .316 . It should be .303 and .312. I suppose it would do better with oversized cast bullets.

no guns here · « **Reply #178 on:** January 29, 2010, 12:54:57 AM »

One can not be enough...

two is one and one is none...

therefore...

must have multiples of two's at least.

NGH

Duane · « **Reply #179 on:** January 29, 2010, 12:55:37 PM »

If proficient with only one it can be enough,Beware the man with only one gun he knows how to use it .Most farm families and alot of old timers only carried one gun and I dont much think crossing them was a good idea.