45-70 Handloading Questions

[vanbuzen9]

Hey guys,

I will be recieving an H&R Buffalo Classic pretty soon, and I was just doing some handloading for it tonight.  I was wondering, because it is a single shot, is it better not to crimp the bullets?  I just loaded some hornady 350 grain flat noses, and they have a beveled base, so in this case, I didn't even bell the case mouth, and they slid right in just fine.  I would assume that had they not had a beveled base, I would have had to bell the case mouth.  Any thoughts would be great!

-vanbuzen9

[Tn Jim]

I crimp the 45-70's for my Encore. I feel like the crimp gives me a more consistent ignition. I use the same bullet as you, and they work great. I do give my cases just a little flare, but not much. I haven't buckled a case yet, but I don't know if the slight flare has really helped that much.

[quickdtoo]

Me too, I always crimp with the Lee FCD, as Jim said it helps, certainly doesn't hurt, the target below was shot at 100yds with my scoped BC and the 350gr Hornady. 

Tim

[vanbuzen9]

Great!

Thanks for the info, guys.  I guess I'll have to add this step to my process.  I  sure wish 45-70 dies came in carbide, there are sure a lot of steps to get the darn things loaded.  Oh well, beats paying 30+ dollars a box for factory!

-vanbuzen9

[BBF]

vanbuzen:
Have you ever checked to see if you got enough tension left in a fired case to hold a new bullet even slightly?

I have fired some mild loads with different bullets and noticed that I did not have to resize the case at all to hold a new bullet well enough to just use the Lee crimp to give it a better grip.

[flashhole]

I shoot a lot of the Hornady 350 grain bullets in my Guide Gun.  I can share a few comments about the round and some questions posted above.

45-70 cases have a slight taper and classic carbide sizing dies with a carbide ring on the inside won't work.  They are designed for straight wall cases.

The 45-70 requires a crimp for guns with tubular magazines.  I favor the Redding Taper Crimp die and crimp every round.

You need to resize every time you fire the round and you should bell the case mouth 1/4 - 1/3 the length of the bullet to ensure a proper start during the seat step. 

My favorite load uses a top end load of H-4895 powder.

If you want to see more about reloading the 45-70 look here.


http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/49
 

[Varmint Hunter]

It's just my opinion but I think crimping the bullet:

aids in ensuring consistent ignition

prevents the bullet from moving forward during primer ignition rather than during powder combustion - bullets that move forward prematurely usually result in diminished accuracy

I roll crimp all of the 45/70 ammo for my ProHunter

[vanbuzen9]

OK,

I guess the general consensus is to crimp.  Now if only my rifle would get here!  I now have 60 rounds ready to go (40 handloads, 20 winchester factory).  My original intent for this gun is to shoot some handmade sillhouette targets I made from scap steel.  I just line them up on a 2x4 resting on top of two 5 gallon buckets.  One thing for sure, I won't continue to buy these hornady bullets to shoot steel, they are little too expensive.  I would like to switch to plain old lead bullets, as soon as I convince my lady friend to let me have some casting supplies in the garage!  What kind of lead bullets do you guys typically shoot, and what is the best powder for these?

thanks,
vanbuzen9

[quickdtoo]

Be aware that H&R 45-70s have a reputation for being short throated, some aren't but most are from my experience and those that have complained on the H&R forum here over the years,  I have five of them, I throated 3 of them myself so I could load to recommended COL or longer with the heavier bullets, one has a decent throat from the factory, another I rechambered to 45-120 so it was never an issue, but I'd bet money it was short throated too. One of the bullets that had to be loaded shorter than 2.55" is the 350gr Hornady.

Tim





You can see the difference in the comparison below, L to R, 300gr Speer, 300gr Rem, 405gr Rem, 400gr Speer FN, 350gr Speer FN, 350gr Hornady RN and 350gr Hornady FP Interlock.

[vanbuzen9]

Does short throated mean they won't chamber without going into the lands?  What would it cost to fix this issue?

[quickdtoo]

Yes, there's very little distance from the end of the chamber to the start of the rifling, there's really no throat, the rifling just abruptly begins, see Throating the 45-70 in the H&R FAQs and Help sticky, it costs about $30 if you do it yourself, a smith might do it for about the same if he has the throating reamer.....or you can just load shorter than recommended COL, 2.489" for the Hornady 350gr in my case, you'll know when you try to chamber the ammo you already have loaded up. 

Tim

[Jack Magnum]

Me too, I always crimp with the Lee FCD, as Jim said it helps, certainly doesn't hurt, the target below was shot at 100yds with my scoped BC and the 350gr Hornady. 

Tim

Tim ,
                   What powder and grains recipe ?
                                                            Jack

[Blackhawker]

In light of the throating issue that Tim brought up, I'd wait until you have the rifle before you get too many rounds loaded.  I loaded about 30 or 40 rounds for my BC that didn't seat or "throat" correctly and ended up pulling all of them.  I should have known better since I typically check the seating of all my ammo in corresponding barrels/chambers before I start loading any quantities.  (We live and learn)  In any case, spare yourself the headache and wait until your rifle comes in before you get 100 or so rounds loaded. 

[quickdtoo]

Me too, I always crimp with the Lee FCD, as Jim said it helps, certainly doesn't hurt, the target below was shot at 100yds with my scoped BC and the 350gr Hornady. 

Tim

Tim ,
                   What powder and grains recipe ?
                                                            Jack

The load is marked on the target, Rem brass, CCI 200, COL 2.535", data is Hodgdon modern rifle except they list Win brass and 2.540" COL. 

Tim

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

[Autorim]

I always check the throating on my rifles before loading. If possible, I start by seating about .025 inches off the rifling. With a magazine gun, the magazine length may determine maximum OAL. I don't crimp my 45-70 loads, but they are only fired in a Ruger No. 1.  OAL is also not an issue here. I will qualify that by stating that I have only fired jacketed bullets in this rifle. With cast bullets and case belling, I would probably crimp in the crimp groove and try that first.

[mitchell]

in my mind crimping is just one more thing that can go wrong and i stay away form it even with the 45-70