Cigarettes

[rex6666]

I don't expect any one to feel sorry for me, no one made me smoke.
If someone told me my smoking bothered them i stayed away from them..

[Skunk]

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[gypsyman]

Although I quit smoking cigarette's probably close to 20 years ago, I smoked cigars up till around 11-12 years ago. The smell of cigarette's very much turns me off, the smell of a good cigar gets my nose to twitchin.
Any of you that are so inclined, I believe if you check with the BATF&E, you'll find out you can grow your own tobbaco for personel consumption. Not sure how many plants, or acreage your allowed. But as long as your not selling it, you can grow it. Just like alcohol, so many gallons.  gypsyman

[williamlayton]

Shootall and Bill
I am certainly not looking for sympathy OR understanding, hardly permission.
I enjoy and do it, will do it .
This conversation has nothing to do with acceptance and i'm not asking.
Ya'll do it your way.
Blessings

[45-70.gov]

AS  TAX  PAYERS WE  NEED TO STICK  TOGETHER

but  i still  don't  understand  why any one smokes

and am even  more confused about antone  that doesn't want  to smoke

BUT  DOES

the  intent  of this thread sould be to point  out  taxes  to modify behavior

i  think smokers  are as stupid  as liberals  think i am for owning  a gun

if accepting  a cigerette  tax  and  saying  ''good  they don't need to smoke''
then  i should  be ready to accept  an  ammo tax.......
.no targeted  taxes

[rockbilly]

You know what you find on the end of a cigarette...........a sucker.

Nuff said.

[LONGTOM]

"All mighty those that sit and pass judgement"!

Others could do the same towards most anyone of us for any number of reasons.

The money we waste on smokes, drinking or in some eyes even the guns we buy.
The guy who just has to have the latest thing out, a tool, a new set of golf clubs, a hot new car when there is really nothing wrong with his old one.
Maybe even a hot new girlfriend!
The list could go on forever.

There are many vices in the world that some see no problem with while others can only sit and wonder why.

In all reality, who can pass judgement on another person except the LORD our GOD!

Instead of beating down someone why don't we offer a little help towards them in hopes of maybe turning their lives around.

I didn't ask anyone permission to smoke nor do I blame them.
It was my idea and mine alone.
I am not asking anyone to help me in either quiting or in paying for my insurance.
I was dumb enough to get myself in this mess and I am smart enough to get myself out.
Until now I didn't want to quit, and frankly I still don't.
I like it, but I am smart enough to know that $4 or $5 a pack is just plain stupid.
I will not be a willing part of THE LIAR IN THE WHITE HOUSE's plan to rip people off just because someone thinks it is wrong for people to smoke!

If second hand smoke is so bad (which I am sure it is a bad thing) then the person doing the smokeing should be dead long before the non smokers.
I still can't understand how more people can die from second hand smoke than do from actual smoking!
That is just like THE LIAR IN THE WHITE HOUSE's idea of getting us back on the road to recovery by spending more money than we can ever pay back.
The numbers just don't add up!


LONGTOM

[ncsurveyor]

Longtom is right.  Your glass house may not not be made from the same glass, but its still glass.


Does anyone find it ironic that Obama smokes, but only other people's cigarettes?

[ironglow]

  Longtom asks;
  Why do they (the tax enacters) pick on the smoker and let the drinker off ?
 
   Perhaps I can venture a guess..It may be involving the character of some of our lawmakers. Pedrhaps tobacco is not one of THEIR addictions, while alcohol is !
  ...And they don't need tobacco if they smoke a different weed. 

  Of course it's always better to quit but.....
    Perhaps hooked, legal smokers could take a hint from potheads...and start growing their own to avoid the ridiculously high tariffs.

[bubba]

I think maybe the difference between smoking and a pack of cigarettes.

1. My golf clubs dont kill me or others around me,.

2. My golf clubs do not raise the cost of my health insurance to cover the precedures and treatments smokers need.

3. My golf clubs will last a lot longer.

The sad truth is that no tax will stop people from the horrible addiction.  The only ones who suffer are going to be family members because the smoker will have his or her fix regardless of whether the household is taken care of and have to suck in the second hand smoke. 

[Oldtimer]

Rockbilly's comment about the smelly nurse made me think.  Most of the smokers I see are young women.  I would guess I see 4 or 5 women smoke for every man I see smoke.  In fact, lung cancer has caught up with breast cancer as a cause of death for women.  If one figures in heart disease and breathing disorders as being aggravated by tobacco usage, it is probably the number one cause of death in women.  One bad ice storm, my fire department visited the people in our area who were on home oxygen to see if we needed to supply them, and one of the worst was a smoker.  It only took opening the storm door to let us know. 

Funny, isn't it?  For all the effort that the media spends to make us men look like clueless fools, here is one area where we are way ahead of the ladies.

[LONGTOM]

Thank you ncsurveyor.

ironglow:
Those could very well be the reasons.

bubba:
Wasn't trying to make a case against any one thing, just a general thought of what some may think is a useless waste of $$$.

The fact is that everyone has a vice.
To some it may seem stupid while others see nothing wrong with it.

To me, my vice is smoking, which I hope I will quit very soon.

There are others who's vice is playing the lottery.
Why anyone would waste hard earned money on a pipe dream is beyond me, but that is their vice.
The same goes for heavy drinking.
I am not a drinker but will have one or two on our wedding anniversary, but I can speak first hand on this due to the fact that my brother was and alcoholic most of his life after coming back from NAM before his death (non alcohol related) a few years ago.
I saw what it did to him and our family.
Thank GOD his drinking never hurt anyone physically except himself.
Because of this I take a very hard line towards heavy drinkers, while others don't give it a second thought.

The sad truth is that no tax will stop people from the horrible addiction.  The only ones who suffer are going to be family members because the smoker will have his or her fix regardless of whether the household is taken care of and have to suck in the second hand smoke

I hope you are wrong on the tax dollars stopping people from smokeing.
I am counting on this very thing to get me to stop!

the smoker will have his or her fix regardless of whether the household is taken care of

In my case you are wrong!
My family would never do without because of a stupid vice on my part.
My father raised a better business man than that.
All I have is paid for because I was smart enough to save my money, along with plenty of extra, when I was younger, just in case something would happen that it would not put my family in a bad position.
If I were to die today, none of my family would ever have to worry about money.

Now as far as the part about the second hand smoke, you are very correct in that department, and for this I am very sorry for my family.
What is the saying the young kids are useing now, MY BAD!


LONGTOM

[ironglow]

   Most all of us have some kind of an addiction or "craving"..I'm a sucker for fine cheddar cheese..but my cholestrol level tells me..." eat it only rarely, and then in small amounts ...

   Curiously; the libs have put outrageous taxes on tobacco.." aid the poor" in their health insurance  or lack thereof. Don't know what it is like in your neck of the woods, but where I live, it is primarily the "poor" that are still smoking..

[LONGTOM]

Around here the only ones who seem to have quit are the office workers in all of their various forms.


LONGTOM

[SHOOTALL]

William , my point was smokers pushed their freedom on others by smoking when it bothered others . Understanding should have been on the part of smokers after the finding and proof of second hand smoke hurting others but again many ( not all smokers ) forced their right to smoke with disregard of others right to not breath smoke . As far as understanding about people who got hooked and can't quit , i do understand that and to have sympathy for them . I as a freedom loving American agree if someone enjoys smoking then they should be allowed to do so. But not at the expence of others ! So smokers should respect others that's all . And no permission in not needed by those with respect for others .
When hunting in Canada you learn fast to take all the smokes they allow as they are good gifts to those allowing you to hunt their land ! S i agree they are good trade items in some cases .

[DalesCarpentry]

This is what it is getting down to. Dale

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[45-70.gov]

this  is  just  a stunt

to get  us  used  to targeting hehavior......like shooting

will  the smokers stant  with  those  that  did not stand  with  them

i  think not  and don't  blame them  that is human  nature

and  the social  ''engineers''  know  that

DIVIDE AND CONQUEER

[ironglow]

  Funny things happen with liberal conniving...
  Our new (of course liberal) governor who replaced disgraced Spitzer, has proposed dozens & dozens of new fees and taxes, including a tax on non-diet soft drinks. Came time to sign the bill and he said (magnanimously)..since I love you folks, I'm going to drop demands for the soda-pop tax.
  The old bait-&-switch..institute 85 new taxes, drop one of them and clasim a hero's place...

    Now we know why he dropped it..so Obama could pick it up. Obama's scheme, enforce behavior modification through taxes..typical liberal doink !

[dukkillr]

There are a handfull of things that the libertarian in me thinks shouldn't be regulated... Smoking, seatbelts, helmets, etc...  BUT that's a situation where ideology is trumping real-world practicality.  The problem is that eventually every American is placed on healthcare at the tax payers expense.  Since those things are a)Catestrophically bad for you and b)Completely frivolous I have a hard time complaining when the government limits them.  Ultitmately I have no interest in paying for the years of O2 and lumenectomies that most smokers will need. 

Actually I think people should be given the opportunity to waive any public heathcare.  Then they would do whatever they want without my tax dollars picking up the eventual fallout.

[Questor]

I used to smoke because I enjoyed it. Then I fully realized that it was a bad idea, so I quit. Very abruptly. I do not understand how people can say it is difficult to quit smoking. Just make up your mind and do it.

[45-70.gov]

There are a handfull of things that the libertarian in me thinks shouldn't be regulated... Smoking, seatbelts, helmets, etc...  BUT that's a situation where ideology is trumping real-world practicality.  The problem is that eventually every American is placed on healthcare at the tax payers expense.  Since those things are a)Catestrophically bad for you and b)Completely frivolous I have a hard time complaining when the government limits them.  Ultitmately I have no interest in paying for the years of O2 and lumenectomies that most smokers will need. 

Actually I think people should be given the opportunity to waive any public heathcare.  Then they would do whatever they want without my tax dollars picking up the eventual fallout.

that  is a problem   of  socialism

not  a problem  of smoking  seat  belts  helnets

i  do  beleive  in seat belt  laws  but  for the driver  ONLY
the  driver may  get  bumped  and  knocked out  of seat  while his vehicle  stays in  motion
then  he may  hit  me.....had he been strapped  hehind the wheel  he  can better  maintain  control of his car


weather  he goes through  the windsheild  or is empailed  on the stering wheel  is  irrelevent  to  me
unless  a socialist holds  me  responsible and  seizis  my tax dollars  to fix him

[dukkillr]

There are a handfull of things that the libertarian in me thinks shouldn't be regulated... Smoking, seatbelts, helmets, etc...  BUT that's a situation where ideology is trumping real-world practicality.  The problem is that eventually every American is placed on healthcare at the tax payers expense.  Since those things are a)Catestrophically bad for you and b)Completely frivolous I have a hard time complaining when the government limits them.  Ultitmately I have no interest in paying for the years of O2 and lumenectomies that most smokers will need. 

Actually I think people should be given the opportunity to waive any public heathcare.  Then they would do whatever they want without my tax dollars picking up the eventual fallout.

that  is a problem   of  socialism

not  a problem  of smoking  seat  belts  helnets

i  do  beleive  in seat belt  laws  but  for the driver  ONLY
the  driver may  get  bumped  and  knocked out  of seat  while his vehicle  stays in  motion
then  he may  hit  me.....had he been strapped  hehind the wheel  he  can better  maintain  control of his car


weather  he goes through  the windsheild  or is empailed  on the stering wheel  is  irrelevent  to  me
unless  a socialist holds  me  responsible and  seizis  my tax dollars  to fix him

That's where the real world part comes in...  Unless you have a plan to undo Medicare, Medicaid, Subsidized insurance, and EMTALA you will end up paying...

Now, imagine if you could legally opt out.  No taxes on cigs, no helmets, no taxes on booze... Just you responsible for your own actions...  If you saved your money, it might even make sense...

[45-70.gov]

i  do  accept  your point  about the real world

[rockbilly]

In my earlier comments I didn’t mean to be so harsh of smokers, but I do feel I am justified.  Smoking has impacted my family considerably, therefore I am against it, if you wish to do it OK, but please not it in my presence.

At one point both my wife and I smoked.  Back in the early sixties we would throw the kids in the car and set out on a trip, she and I both lit up, the kids in the back seat inhaling the second hand smoke sometimes for 6-8 hours and a couple of packs as we proceeded along.  My son was diagnosed with asthma at about five years old; the doctors said it was a result of being exposed to the smoke over the years.  One of the daughters suffered the same faith.  I had to have a triple by-pass at age 49; I am convinced cigarettes played a part in that too.  My wife currently suffers from COPD, she is on oxygen almost 24/7, it isn’t a pretty sight to see her when she has a breathing attack. She is very limited as to what she can do, walking for any distance is a real effort, even simple house keeping tires her very quickly. And the cost for her care, that another subject, but it isn't cheap.

People use every excuse in the world to justify smoking, but bottom line is an addiction, just as powerful as being addicted to coke, crack or many other drugs. It can be broken, most people feel much better and enjoy a healthier life after getting off the cigarettes.  Most don’t realize they have an offensive odor, even to family members, and in some cases are contributing to the health conditions of their loved ones.  You wouldn’t stick your Wife, children or grandkids in the eye with a sharp stick, then why subject him to a substance (the smoke) that may do yhem harm?

[45-70.gov]

In my earlier comments I didn’t mean to be so harsh of smokers, but I do feel I am justified.  Smoking has impacted my family considerably, therefore I am against it, if you wish to do it OK, but please not it in my presence.

At one point both my wife and I smoked.  Back in the early sixties we would throw the kids in the car and set out on a trip, she and I both lit up, the kids in the back seat inhaling the second hand smoke sometimes for 6-8 hours and a couple of packs as we proceeded along.  My son was diagnosed with asthma at about five years old; the doctors said it was a result of being exposed to the smoke over the years.  One of the daughters suffered the same faith.  I had to have a triple by-pass at age 49; I am convinced cigarettes played a part in that too.  My wife currently suffers from COPD, she is on oxygen almost 24/7, it isn’t a pretty sight to see her when she has a breathing attack. She is very limited as to what she can do, walking for any distance is a real effort, even simple house keeping tires her very quickly. And the cost for her care, that another subject, but it isn't cheap.

People use every excuse in the world to justify smoking, but bottom line is an addiction, just as powerful as being addicted to coke, crack or many other drugs. It can be broken, most people feel much better and enjoy a healthier life after getting off the cigarettes.  Most don’t realize they have an offensive odor, even to family members, and in some cases are contributing to the health conditions of their loved ones.  You wouldn’t stick your Wife, children or grandkids in the eye with a sharp stick, then why subject him to a substance (the smoke) that may do yhem harm?

read  it  again  you smokers   i know  i  may  be  full  of  bull  half the time  but
THIS  MAN IS SPEAKING  FROM  EXPERIENCE

[Graybeard]

I've never smoked in my life but I've been subjected to second hand smoke both because of my association with friends who smoked and being forced to put up with it at work for so long I honestly believe that is the root cause of the shortness of breath issues I have today.

I no longer tolerate it regardless of the reason. I'll not sit still for a friend to light up in my presences and will not go or stay anywhere smoking is tolerated. I can't. Even a short exposure to second hand smoke these days has my throat and lungs burning as if on fire and I'll be sick for days if I sit thru a hour or two of it.

I sure was glad with the government issued the no smoking in public areas on military bases rules. I had to stop my own boss a few times over it. He'd light up in a conference room or his own office with me in there and I'd tell him either put out the cigarrette or I'm leaving. It caused some real bad scenes a few times with one very stubborn over baring boss who was operating under the mistaken impression he was GOD.

I remember one time well he was then Director of Quality Assurance and I the Chief of Supply Quality Assurance Division. His boss was the installation commander and he my only boss. He was holding a Division Chief's meeting which is mandatory attendance for all Division Chief's in his office. He lit up and I told him he must put it out. After a very long loud string of cussing he told me he'd do as he damn well pleased in his office.

I told him not with me there he would not and asked him if he wanted to call the installation commander to take it up with him or if he wanted me to. The cigarette was put out and no more were lit that day for sure. He and I went round and round many a time over that issue and others but I stood my ground and knew I was right before taking a bold stand.

I will never ever again remain in the presence of second hand smoke from anyone anywhere for any reason.

In my earlier comments I didn’t mean to be so harsh of smokers, but I do feel I am justified.  Smoking has impacted my family considerably, therefore I am against it, if you wish to do it OK, but please not it in my presence.

At one point both my wife and I smoked.  Back in the early sixties we would throw the kids in the car and set out on a trip, she and I both lit up, the kids in the back seat inhaling the second hand smoke sometimes for 6-8 hours and a couple of packs as we proceeded along.  My son was diagnosed with asthma at about five years old; the doctors said it was a result of being exposed to the smoke over the years.  One of the daughters suffered the same faith.  I had to have a triple by-pass at age 49; I am convinced cigarettes played a part in that too.  My wife currently suffers from COPD, she is on oxygen almost 24/7, it isn’t a pretty sight to see her when she has a breathing attack. She is very limited as to what she can do, walking for any distance is a real effort, even simple house keeping tires her very quickly. And the cost for her care, that another subject, but it isn't cheap.

People use every excuse in the world to justify smoking, but bottom line is an addiction, just as powerful as being addicted to coke, crack or many other drugs. It can be broken, most people feel much better and enjoy a healthier life after getting off the cigarettes.  Most don’t realize they have an offensive odor, even to family members, and in some cases are contributing to the health conditions of their loved ones.  You wouldn’t stick your Wife, children or grandkids in the eye with a sharp stick, then why subject him to a substance (the smoke) that may do yhem harm?