Deep seating revolver bullets

[lenoxmi]

Veral,
In your book, you mention that a combination of deep seating heavy bullets and a fast pistol powder produces good velocity with minimum muzzle blast, if the revolver's cylinder gap is .002-003.  I believe your example was a .44 magnum 320GR LFN.  I'm interested in pursuing this technique with my .44 Ruger Bisley.

I'm guessing that 231/Bullseye/Unique would be a suitable powder, but can you provide a starting load and cartridge OAL?

Mike

[Veral]

  Those are all good powders, but my preference is Hodgen Universal.
I can't give a suggested load, as there are so many variables, like bullet weight and how deep you seat.  Seating deeper increases pressure dramatically with any given load.  Better to start real light than a little to heavy.  But it won't hurt to try 3 gr for a starter in 44 mag, which will perhaps be quite whimpy, but may be adaquate for what you want.

[Sweetwater]

Veral-
Can you enlighten us as the the real purpose in using this technique? gallery type load or whatever?

Regards,
Sweetwater

[Veral]

  Yes gallery loads, but far above that with the right bullet selection.  My favorite load some years back, was a 240 gr WLN in 357 caliber.  I seated it deep over Unique powder, with pressures in the magnum range.  Velocity was 1100 fps, and the report was so mild that I could shoot a couple of cylinders full with no ear discomfort.  With that same bullet seated out to fill the cylinder, as one would for optimum power with accuracy, there is no way to get the same mild report, even with 800 fps loads.

  The reason it works.  --  A small charge operating at near max pressures, with the bullet BASE having the maximum distence possible to travel before passing the cylinder gap, allows the lowest possible pressure as the cylinder gap opens.  With a gap at around .002, the minimum amount of this gas blasts out, yet enough escapes that when the bullet leaves the muzzle, there is again a minimum of blast.  A larger gap allows a massive blast out the cylinder gap, while a very tight gap, doesn't allow enough gas escape to reduce muzzle blast perceptably.  By perception, I mean what the shooter hears.  -  38 full wadcutters are the closest ammo available that come into this concept to some degree, but pressures are too low for the optimum burning efficiency which puts the power behind the bullet rather into the air.  If they are loaded hot enough to make the report die down, they'll be flying supersonic and totally devoid of accuracy, because they don't have a nose that provides a good flight form for super sonic use.

  Ponder all that carefully and I believe the full picture will appear in your minds eye.

[45-70.gov]

these  loads are  REAL quiet in a handi rifle too

[paul105]

 Veral,
 
I'm trying to do develop the quietest load possible to shoot around a gun shy dog.  I used my 6" Freedom Arms M83 w/.45 Colt Cyl because of the strength factor.  I used HP38 and two Bullets (SSK TC, and Montana Bullet Works LBT 335gr LWNGC w/LBT blue lube).
 
I started at 3.2gr of HP38 (making sure each bullet exited the barrel) and worked my way up to 6.7gr in half grain increments.  I seated the bullets very deep, almost (if not) on top of the powder charge.  There was very little if any bullet showing above the case mouth.  I used unsized cases to facilitate bullet seating.
 
I recorded velocities on the following loads with the 335gr LBT:
 
5.3gr HP38     837 fps
5.7gr HP38     850 fps
6.7gr HP38      925 fps
 
At 6.7gr, the accuracy went south – about 5” at 25 yards (previous loads were in the 2” range).  Also, each successive powder charge seemed slightly louder than the previous one.  I was trying to get to “magnum” velocities (1,100+ fps)/pressures that you indicated should result in the desired noise reduction, but quit when accuracy went bad.
 
Not sure what to do next, and am hoping for your guidance -- should I
1.  Keep increasing charges w/HP38 until velocity is approx 1,100fps?
2.  Switch to a slower burning powder?  If so, how slow (Universal, HS6, etc.) and should the goal be approx 1,100 fps or slightly less to avoid going super sonic?

3.  Or?
 
Thanks,
 
Paul
 

[Veral]

  First off, there is no way to get stout loads with your heavy bullets and truely low sound, and speeds over 800 fps will definately be noisy compared to lower velocity.

  The best powder I've used is Hodgen Universal, and run it at fairly high pressure so it burns complete inside the gun, with most of the burning done inside the cylinder quickly enough to get a severe pressure drop before the bullet clears the cylinder gap.

  As for training your noise sensitive dog with a large caliber gun, I think you are putting too much effort and expense into reloading a large caliber.  I've done quite a bit of training of both horses and dogs and found the best way is to use a 22, and shoot at some distence from the animal.  Always have someone close to the animal to assure it that all is well.  Petting or playing with the dog.  If a horse, restrain it with hobbles on all four so it can't jump.  All amimals are creatures of habit, so if they get in a habit of jumping or hiding at a loud noise, they will never be broken on that habit as long as they are allowed to do it, or watch other animals (people) do it.   
  When the animal gets used to gunfire at a distence, move a bit closer, but don't direct your gun towards it.    After they become accustomed to gunfire from a distence they will actually begin to anticipate it and enjoy it, expecially dogs when hunting.
  We got a nice lab one time with the warning that she was afraid of gunfire and would never be any good for hunting.  I broke her by having the kids take her through the machine shop on a leash, and play with her while I shot at a distence as above.  She soon loved to hunt, and quivered with excitement when she saw the gun come up and point toward game.

 

[paul105]

Thanks Veral.

Paul