Author Topic: Need help with fitting barre (Read 2441 times)

brennemanj83 · « **on:** March 27, 2009, 06:14:12 PM »

I have a BC 45-70 barrel here I got from Eskimo36.It wont lock up on my frame so I smoked the latch shelf.With the barrel closed there is no gap between the barrel and frame.The latch doesnt come anywhere near coming up on the latch shelf.Do I need to rework the shelf or the pivot?

deerjackie · « **Reply #1 on:** March 27, 2009, 06:19:00 PM »

will a .002 feeler drag through the breech on closure?will a .001 drag through?

trotterlg · « **Reply #2 on:** March 27, 2009, 06:32:02 PM »

I think you should work on the pivot first. Most likely that is where you need to take off some metal. Plus, it is far easier to shim up the pivot if you take off too much than it is to put back latch shelf material. Larry

cwlongshot · « **Reply #3 on:** March 28, 2009, 01:26:03 AM »

Morning,
First off, have you read thru the FAQ's on the subject? There is a wealth of knowledge and experience filling those pages to help us.

I do not want to disagree with Larry (He really knows his stuff) and maybe Its just that I miss understand him. But IMHO, you should never alter the FRAME or frame mounted parts to fit a barrel.
You need to see whats going on and why its not matching. Carefully look it all over. Smoking the latch is a great trick, notice the front of the barrel see if you can see where the latch hits it. Dose it completely close in the frame? Maybe its too long overall? Put the barrel on that does fit and closely compare. Its tough to describe online but I am sure with some diligence you will see whats amiss and fix it. In the 30-50 barrels I have fit I have only had one that was way off. I finally did get it, turns out the welds on the block, where too proud of the surface and wouldn't allow the barrel to completely close. Once I dressed them down, she closed up nice and only minor fitting of the shelf was required. Finding this was the sum total of a couple nights of looking and testing.....

Good luck,
CW

MSP Ret · « **Reply #4 on:** March 28, 2009, 03:40:30 AM »

I have fit many barrels as well and in a situation as yours one thing I look at that I do not believe is mentioned in the FAQ's is the relative height between the top of the chamber end of the barrel and the matching top of the reciever. This is not a single thing to look at but rather something that may be considered in the fitting process as an indicator of fit. When the barrel is placed on/in the reciever and closed in the reciever into the battery position, I have had my best luck when the rear top edge of the chamber end of the barrel is just below the top edge of the reciever. I believe this indicates how far down the barrel fits into the reciever. If it does not go completely into "battery" it is my belief (for whatever that is worth) that the latch will not engage or at least not engage far enough. This problem, not fitting deep enough into the reciever and the chamber end of the barrel and breechface, tight or touching, is usually eliminated by carefully filing of the pivot pin cutout on the barrel lug. Go slow and easy and file flat (square) to the lug. I feel it is always better to file less than you need and let the parts wear in rather than file away to much material. It's always easy to go back and give the lug another gentle 1/2 stroke with the file. Also be careful what part of the lug recess you file away, the top, bottom, or straight back to the bottom of the radius of the recess. I believe this is important in fitting but am still trying to formulate how and why to the extent that I can articulate it. Best of luck and let us know how it works out for you....<><....

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #5 on:** March 28, 2009, 03:57:03 AM »

Keep buying frames till you get one it works on. Then buy barrels to fit those frames

, That's what the rest of us do. Gotta do my best to stimulate the economy

. DP

deerjackie · « **Reply #6 on:** March 28, 2009, 08:34:42 AM »

i think larry was saying to work on latch shelf on barrel. i am wondering if it is closing all the way.sounds like it is.if we could only see thru frame to view latch and shelf.i hate to see him work the barrel lug and end up loose and still no lockup but,a thin shim would fix lug easy. i had a shim make its way to my eye yesterday while i was starring at 5 pairs of safety glasses so i put it away and eye is ok,a definite eye opener.lol

quickdtoo · « **Reply #7 on:** March 28, 2009, 08:46:20 AM »

I'd check for a gap by holding the rifle up to a bright light and trying to look across the barrel to breech face joint, as many barrel faces aren't true and may hit at the top of the barrel before they lock up. If there is a gap there or it's uneven and the brass you plan on using is slightly recessed below the chamber face, you can flat file it and true it up and possibly allow it to lock up without messing with the latch shelf or pivot. You should also be able to have H&R fit it for you from the sound of it, Swampman had a second hand 45-70 barrel fitted at Ilion.

Tim

brennemanj83 · « **Reply #8 on:** March 28, 2009, 09:27:07 AM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on March 28, 2009, 08:46:20 AM

I'd check for a gap by holding the rifle up to a bright light and trying to look across the barrel to breech face joint, as many barrel faces aren't true and may hit at the top of the barrel before they lock up. If there is a gap there or it's uneven and the brass you plan on using is slightly recessed below the chamber face, you can flat file it and true it up and possibly allow it to lock up without messing with the latch shelf or pivot. You should also be able to have H&R fit it for you from the sound of it, Swampman had a second hand 45-70 barrel fitted at Ilion.

Tim

Tim..........I done just as you said.I held it up to a bright light with the barrel in the closed position and there is a slight gap towards the top and no gap at the bottom.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #9 on:** March 28, 2009, 09:40:57 AM »

How's the fit of brass in the chamber? If the headstamp is slightly recessed when a straight edge is place across the chamber, you can flat file the barrel face until the brass is flush with the chamber face, but check fit often as you file or you could end up with a loose barrel when locked up, ideally there should be no visible gap at the top or bottom of the barrel when it's locked up.

Tim

brennemanj83 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 28, 2009, 09:55:31 AM »

With a fired case sitting in the chamber there is a slight gap between it and the breech face of the barrel.So i guess I will try takeing a little off the breech face.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #11 on:** March 28, 2009, 09:58:37 AM »

Quote from: brennemanj83 on March 28, 2009, 09:55:31 AM

With a fired case sitting in the chamber there is a slight gap between it and the breech face of the barrel.So i guess I will try takeing a little off the breech face.

Just so there's no confusion, the chamber face is where the filing needs to be done.

Tim

brennemanj83 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 28, 2009, 11:16:03 AM »

Well heres what I got.I filed the barrel face with an old case in the chamber that way so if I started filing in to the case I would know to stop,and the gap at the top is now gone with no gap all the way around.The latch is still not coming up on the shelf.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #13 on:** March 28, 2009, 11:26:12 AM »

If the frame works with other barrels, start working on the shelf, does the frame have the inspection port? If so, it may be handy to remove the plug for a better view of what's happening in there.

Tim

brennemanj83 · « **Reply #14 on:** March 28, 2009, 11:33:20 AM »

Yes it does have the Inspection port.Another Stupid Question............How do I remove the plug?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #15 on:** March 28, 2009, 11:41:37 AM »

Good question, I tried a little without success, I think a turnbuckle type tool would work, but I've not tried to make one yet.

Tim

quickdtoo · « **Reply #16 on:** March 28, 2009, 12:58:26 PM »

Just for you Jon, I did the R&D on an inspection port plug removal tool, real complicated, I used the threaded cap for a spark plug and a suitable short machine screw with a nut to push the plug out, hold the spark plug cap with a needle nose visegrip and turn the nutted screw with a small end wrench, it came right out, you might want to thin the spark plug cap down just a little, you can see the marks the hole in the frame left on it.

Tim

brennemanj83 · « **Reply #17 on:** March 28, 2009, 01:03:41 PM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on March 28, 2009, 12:58:26 PM

Just for you Jon, I did the R&D on an inspection port plug removal tool, real complicated, I used the threaded cap for a spark plug and a suitable short machine screw with a nut to push the plug out, hold the spark plug cap with a needle nose visegrip and turn the nutted screw with a small end wrench, it came right out, you might want to thin the spark plug cap down just a little, you can see the marks the hole in the frame left on it.

Tim

Hey thanks Tim...............I was thinking of doing something like that but you beat me to it.I will have to make one up and keep it in my Handi box.

BTW......I finaly got the barrel fitted.I had take a smidgin out of the pivot.It now locks up tight with prpoper latch engagement.

Thanks for the help everyone.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #18 on:** March 28, 2009, 01:45:01 PM »

Glad you got it brenneman!!

CW

quickdtoo · « **Reply #19 on:** March 28, 2009, 01:50:54 PM »

It's always nice when a plan comes together, good work Jon!!

Tim

Rustyinfla · « **Reply #20 on:** March 28, 2009, 02:16:10 PM »

This is a great post. It might help someone else at some time.

There's always something else to learn.

brennemanj83 · « **Reply #21 on:** March 28, 2009, 02:44:46 PM »

Quote from: Rustyinfla on March 28, 2009, 02:16:10 PM

This is a great post. It might help someone else at some time.

There's always something else to learn.

Rusty I think you are right.....From what I read in the FAQ's about barrel fitting I didnt see anything with a situation like mine.And with Tim making up that tool to remove the Inspection plug...................This thread might be a good Candidate for the FAQ's as well.

Troyboy · « **Reply #22 on:** March 28, 2009, 02:50:04 PM »

Yes this was a good read

quickdtoo · « **Reply #23 on:** March 28, 2009, 02:54:13 PM »

Quote from: brennemanj83 on March 28, 2009, 02:44:46 PM

This thread might be a good Candidate for the FAQ's as well.

Done!!

Tim

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