.44 bullets from .40 S&W cases

[JLCook80]

Kinda brings a new meaning to 44-40  .   Also, I'm thinking that using 40 s&w cases would act ac controlled expansion to some extent, because the brass gets progressively thicker as you approach the case head. (see deertracker444's post and you can see it)

[Default_Required]

3 44 projectile shooting rigs , close to 1000 range found 40 cal brass bagged in the gun room and NO 40 cal pistol around .... Well I think we know what is gonna be eating into my honey-do-list time now dont we ?  

[Default_Required]

So I sarted playing around , So far I tried some 158 gr .358 pure lead I had a few extras of and had the case come up about 65-70% full  ( primer in) .

 Then next I tried some 240 gr .431 hard casts and got a completely full case in most instances. Had some crimping issues with the first batch of 240s and damaged the brass at the mouth .

 I noticed in some of the pics that others displayed that they had knock the primers out , So I gave that a shot in the third batch and yeeeaaahhh my fears were confirmed , 2 of the six had the lead go right out the bottom heh.

 So With my method of melting the already formed bullets into the brass on a hot plate in a pot , looks like I will have to leave the primers in. Then keep working through the Die collection till I find something that works better then using the chamefer to slowly ( and I mean SLOWWWWLY) widdle them to shape and wt.  Though the chamefer ideal may come in handy for any that have had weight issues.

 Side note with the four survivors of the third batch, There isnt any question as to weither the base of the lead is locked into the brass or not 

[sharkhunter]

Cases actually make very good bullets. I manufacture bullets for 45 caliber rifles. I make paper patch and jacketed bullets. I have Corbin bullet swaging equipment so I don't have a problem making them. If you use the 40 S&W cases, you need to anneal them. Heat them to a dull red and drop them into a bucket of vinegar. This will soften them and they will perform much bettter on game and they are very eaisy to size The vinegar keeps the jackets from turing black on you. For the 44, get a Lee .430 sizing kit and this will size the finished bullet to the proper diameter. CH tool and die company make bullet swaging dies for the 44 for around $125. I am going to have them make me a set for the 480 Ruger in hollow point. These dies will seat the core in one die and form the final bullet in the second. By the way, a 45 ACP case makes a beautiful 350 grain bullet for the 45-70s and such. For the larger rifle bullets I will use 06,308,243 cases and cut them to the desired length for what ever bullet weight I want. If you have 38 bullet moulds, cast pure lead bullets for the cores then seat them into the cases. Leave the old spent primers in the cases and you can bond the cores and jackets if you want. I shoot the .458 bullets I make in everything from 45-70 Marlin, my 45-90 Sharps and my .458 Lott. They shoot as well as the jackets as I make from copper tubing and store bought bullets. With a 275-300 grain bullet in your 44, the thin walled 40 cases should give you a great expanding hunting bullet. Be safe and good shooting.
Dave

( Sharps made the West safe for Winchesters)

[Basicguy]

I saw this and thought that I would try it. I first fired a 40sw case empty. Was pretty neat. cut nice round holes in my target but were 6" low. I used W231 powder starting at 6 grains. I tried them both ways without trouble.

I next used some recovered 158g hard cast 38 bullets and heated the cases with a torch filling them to 3/4 capacity. I let them cool gradually to keep them softer. They weighed about 220 grains. I tried them with either end out and found that sometimes I was getting the brass from the 40 round torn off in the 44 case. So I have been loading them with base in. I am using once shot 40 brass. I have been shooting them using Unique at 10 grains. Getting easy extraction and only a little flattening of the primers.

They punch nice clean holes and hit at point of aim at 40 feet. I am using a super-redhawk. I have found that the recovered rounds grab the rifling but are not that tightly fitting. I have swedged some with a makarov die and will try them with the brass head pointing out.

My Ruger has a bit of a tight spot at the breach and it leads real bad. My bore is smooth and shiney now. I like it.

[INresponse]

The only problem I've found so far is that these homemade bullets don't engage the rifling very much.  They might be a tad undersized.  If I look carefully, I can see rifling all the way around the bullet, but it isn't much.  Just a few mils at best.  Not sure what I can do to fix that.

Just an opinion but, ....... from what I can see in the pictures it appears the rifling has engaged enough to spin the bullet.  I see it is barely there but it does not look like it was sliding across the rifling.  I think it is working OK.   I agree they may be undersized, what do they measure out to before you load them into the .44 case?

[INresponse]

Sorry, this photo shows the rifling effects better for my post above.

[Mtn Jack]

I have filled some .40 cases with ww lead and filed them flush with the case mouth, do you think a .40 crimp die or a taper die would hold the lead in? Is annealing the cases really nesseary? I am having fun with this project. What type of crimp would you use on the finished product? Sorry for all the ? but cant seem to find the answers here or on cast bullets. Your friend in arms Mtn Jack

[mrussel]

i  thought  about  that  too  but  never got the nerve to try it
what  about  just  the case..no lead.. goes out prime first
like  a big  primer  for  small  game
like a big pellet




also  would a nickel caseing hurt your barrel

 Do you clean the inside of the case?  would think cleaning the inside of the case and fluxing it so the lead makes a good bond to the metal and maybe heating the case first before pouring in the lead would help keep the case and the jacket together. My books list this as 6 thousandths under though. That seems really loose.

[dakotashooter2]

I have heard of someone using these in the .41 mag though I'm pretty sure they had to be sized first. If I recal the result were pretty decent.

[mrussel]

scribe crosshatching inside the case and then hit it with the torch. It will give the lead something to grip onto.

Instead,clean the case,flux it and pour molten lead in. It should solder itself right to the case,problem solved!

[mrussel]

I am trying these.  I couldn't get a consistent weight pouring the case full.  I sized a 210 grn .41 (RCBS mould) to .401 and turned it nose first into the case.  Put some crimp on with a .40 cal crimp die.  Bullet total weight was 280 grns.  Two inch groups at 25 yds.  The problem I am encountering is the bullet backing out as I am shooting these in a revolver.  Anyone else trying these have a solution?

If the issue is w/the lead bullet/core slipping out of the 40S&W case, then perhaps cleaning the inside surface of the case to enable adhesion/bonding of the lead to case. Probably, a paste rosin soldering flux would need to be applied before pouring the lead. And if going this far, perhaps crosshatch of the inner surface as someone suggested should be done.

If the issue is w/the 40S&W hybrid slipping out of the 44 case, then perhaps a bullet/primer sealant like available from midway (fingernail polish) would be just enuff to mitigate the issue. I've used it on primers and bullets and it turns to dust when firing.  I know that Speeer uses asphalt bullet to case sealant on their 454 gold dots loads.

 Or perhaps pretin the case with some wire solder.

[mrussel]

3 44 projectile shooting rigs , close to 1000 range found 40 cal brass bagged in the gun room and NO 40 cal pistol around .... Well I think we know what is gonna be eating into my honey-do-list time now dont we ?  

 Put up an add that you will trade 40S&W case for lead,or sell them,and use the lead to cast 44 bullets or use the money to buy them. 

[manatee1947]

They have made 22 centerfire bullets for decades from 22 rimfire, and I have read for some time of making 375 bullets from 380 cases. The 40's are sized to 424 OD but fired they should be 428 or so. I will try some in my 444 single shot to see. Has anyone got any pressure readings from any of these loads??

[gstewart44]

I 'm gonna give this a try.....

[Tom W.]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=96418

Look around a bit...

[chihuahua floyd]

Made up a few tonight.  A 125g RNFP melted in a 40 S&W case, then a 105g SWC added and melted also.   Friction holds the molten lead on top of the case.
Slight taper swaged on with an old 9mm die.
Weight is 306 to 308g.
I'll load them up and try them in the SBH and the Marlin 1894 next week when I get back from NM.
No hollow point or much taper, almost a wadcutter.  Pretty sure one of my Marlins will feed them, but last time I tryed 300g bullets, it patterned like a shotgun.
If I get a chance, I'll try the SBH on something with one.